DC aiming for the Big money in Europe after the RWC

[TRF_Cymro]

You're honestly bringing up Cowans alcohol abuse to counter my point that BOD is a sook?..
Firing blanks anyone?
I really don't care about Cowans off the ball things which make him a target. How does that even relate to what we're talking about? lmao

First of all you say you don't care ... so basically what you are saying thats ok for one man to be a so called sook because he 'apparently' went to the media? I bring Cowan's act up because its not the first time he's been hauled over for this.

I go back to your quote

'Look at Jimmy Cowan for example, a full on intentional head butt to the back of the head from Botha, did young Jimmy even squirm??? No. He played on and continued with his rugby unlike BOD who couldn't quit sulking over being dumped onto the ground.'

You try and make Jimmy look like a bloody saint when really we all know he's not hence why I pointed back to you and your tinted glasses what an idiot Cowan is.

Just remember you brought Cowan up ... so im not exactly firing the blanks so to say, you loaded the gun and I fired it.

BOD was under the media spin of Alistair Campbell who at the time span the story in the British press like a champion. To be honest any other person would have done the same in the same situation. I don't think you quite grasp that playing for the British and Irish Lions is the most iconic thing for any British player, so when you are captain of the tour and it gets ended by a real cheap shot then yes ... you feel angry about it and you want to vent your frustration out so he did.

 

[Dizzy]

First of all you say you don't care ... so basically what you are saying thats ok for one man to be a so called sook because he 'apparently' went to the media? I bring Cowan's act up because its not the first time he's been hauled over for this.

I go back to your quote



You try and make Jimmy look like a bloody saint when really we all know he's not hence why I pointed back to you and your tinted glasses what an idiot Cowan is.

Just remember you brought Cowan up ... so im not exactly firing the blanks so to say, you loaded the gun and I fired it.

BOD was under the media spin of Alistair Campbell who at the time span the story in the British press like a champion. To be honest any other person would have done the same in the same situation. I don't think you quite grasp that playing for the British and Irish Lions is the most iconic thing for any British player, so when you are captain of the tour and it gets ended by a real cheap shot then yes ... you feel angry about it and you want to vent your frustration out so he did.

Im not trying to make Cowan look like a saint at all. Im not even trying to defend Cowan.
If you're glasses are too foggy to notice what my point is then take them off.
What I meant was[ill put it in simpler terms for you]
Cowan was a victim of an illegal situation
BOD was a victim of an illegal situation
Cowan carried on
BOD sulked
Hence backing up my opinion that the Northern Hemispherians aren't more physical that us Southern Hemispherians because they sulk at every chance they get.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Im not trying to make Cowan look like a saint at all. Im not even trying to defend Cowan.
If you're glasses are too foggy to notice what my point is then take them off.
What I meant was[ill put it in simpler terms for you]
Cowan was a victim of an illegal situation
BOD was a victim of an illegal situation
Cowan carried on
BOD sulked
Hence backing up my opinion that the Northern Hemispherians aren't more physical that us Southern Hemispherians because they sulk at every chance they get.

Stop being a clown, pretty shoddy comeback regarding the glasses ... fail! You never really put your point across in any clear terms until the above response ... well done, thanks for the simple explanation would have been less painful for us all.

Also I tred very carefully in your last sentence because whether you like that or not ... without concrete proof that we all sulk then your statement is null and void ... I remember the 2007 Rugby World Cup when certain people sulked because a certain forward pass was not given ... this forum was full of them too.

 

[smartcooky]

this!!!!

What does "this!!!" mean?

Curious: Why does your quote of my post drop some of the capitalisation, especially from the proper nouns?

 

[dangandan]

LOL this thread has gone completely off topic!

 

[smartcooky]

Much as I am loathe to further discuss the BOD incident, there is no doubt in my mind that the actions of Umaga and Mealamu were exceedingly reckless in nature, and both should have been suspended. The way the game is refereed now, one or both players would have got red cards and suspensions. In fact it was this incident that brought the whole issue of tip tackles into sharp focus and led to the current set of protocols for dealing with them.

However, what did get Kiwi backs up about this incident was nothing to do with O'Driscoll's reaction to it. He was seriously injured; luckily it was not as bad as it could have been, and he had every right to feel aggrieved at what happened after he was effectively robbed of the Lions', captaincy. The main issue for Kiwis was the calculating, cynical stream of invective that was directed at Umaga by Sir Clive Woodward and his pathetic "spin puppet" Alistair Campbell, with their media smoke & mirrors show. It was misjudgement of the worst kind by Woodward, and piece of sheer stupidity on the part of the Lions management to go down that path. It had entirely the opposite effect to what they had hoped. They intended to put Umaga under pressure, but what they got instead was the troops rallying around their captain, and an All Black team that went into "siege" mode. The All Blacks utterly demolished the Lions in the second and third tests, as history went on to record that the 2005 were the best prepared but worse performing Lions side of all time, thanks in no small part to the motivation provided by Woodward and his spin-doctor.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

What does "this!!!" mean?

Curious: Why does your quote of my post drop some of the capitalisation, especially from the proper nouns?

Heavens knows what the forum does ... has a life of its own.

Regarding 'this' means I agree entirely and the post is very sensible!

 

[donmcdazzle]

It annoys me that people call it a "spear tackle" anyway he wasn't anywhere near the ball! It was a clear out of a ruck gone a bit wrong. recklessly rather than intentionally surely. I'm almost certain that Mealamu and Umaga didn't have the clarity of thought to realise it was BOD at the ruck and then telepathically decide to jointly lift him up and put him on his shoulder/neck to purposely injure him so he couldn't be a part of the rest of the tour.. crazy that people even entertain the thought this was a deliberate and predetermined move to take him out. There are countless moments in games where if someones body position had been different they would have suffered/avoided serious injury. BOD could have just as easily escaped injury and it wouldnt even be an issue, it was just unlucky he got injured.

I think the staff got in his head and made it out he was deliberately targeted, coupled with his dissappointment probably made him react (stupidly) the way he did. Got to say I despise him now because of how he reacted to it and I think you'll find a lot of NZers consider him a sook now.

One random example I can think of is a shocker of a late hit Matfield put on Kelleher in SA a couple years ago, think it knocked kelleher out. If it had broken his jaw (which it easily could have) you would never see Kelleher in the media crying and moaning about how much of a dirty player Matfield is and how he was delberately targeted etc etc.

That's me 5c on that thing.

Back to the point, I think Smartcookys above post on DC summed up pretty well my sentiments and puts the argument to bed.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Cowan was a victim of an illegal situation
BOD was a victim of an illegal situation

Not taking into account the severity of either situation?
Shoplifiting = Grand Theft Auto = Assault & Battery = Manslaughter = Murder in NZ?
I mean,
Shoplifting = illegal situation
Murder = Ilegal situation

Yes, Cowan getting headbutted in the back of the head wasn't good. BUt it obviously didn't injure him as, as you said, he dusted himself off and played on.
BOD getting piledrived DID cause an injury, hence him missing the rest of the tour, and 6months or so more. If Cowan had missed that much, you might have a point, but he didn't.
I wonder if BODs ever taken a blow to the head like that played on?

 

[munstermuffin]

BOD has taken many blows to head and continued.
But lads I thought New Zealand being so skillful and all would be the main party trying to stamp the thuggery out but it sounds like all ye do is encourage it. I'm a fan of playing rough and playing on the edge. But when you put a man out of a tour that was supposed to be one of his greatest highs captaining a Lions tour and missing 6 months. Then try and defend it then that is poor showing.
Umaga as NZ captain and culprit never once cotacted BOD to apologize or even check how was the shoulder.

 

[donmcdazzle]

Not taking into account the severity of either situation?
Shoplifiting = Grand Theft Auto = Assault & Battery = Manslaughter = Murder in NZ?
I mean,
Shoplifting = illegal situation
Murder = Ilegal situation

Yes, Cowan getting headbutted in the back of the head wasn't good. BUt it obviously didn't injure him as, as you said, he dusted himself off and played on.
BOD getting piledrived DID cause an injury, hence him missing the rest of the tour, and 6months or so more. If Cowan had missed that much, you might have a point, but he didn't.
I wonder if BODs ever taken a blow to the head like that played on?

Do you not think Cowan's was worse? Botha obviously deliberately intended to headbutt him, whereas BOD just got cleared out of a ruck a bit over rigourously and unluckily landed badly. The intention rather than the outcome in terms of people getting injured by other players is surely more important.

 

[smartcooky]

Do you not think Cowan's was worse? Botha obviously deliberately intended to headbutt him, whereas BOD just got cleared out of a ruck a bit over rigourously and unluckily landed badly. The intention rather than the outcome in terms of people getting injured by other players is surely more important.

Intention has nothing to do with anything. Referees are particularly instructed to rule only on the circumstances of a tackle, and to ignore what they think the intent was.

The judiciary is the only part of the process that can decide on mitigation.

 

[ranger]

First of all you say you don't care ... so basically what you are saying thats ok for one man to be a so called sook because he 'apparently' went to the media? I bring Cowan's act up because its not the first time he's been hauled over for this.

I go back to your quote



You try and make Jimmy look like a bloody saint when really we all know he's not hence why I pointed back to you and your tinted glasses what an idiot Cowan is.

Just remember you brought Cowan up ... so im not exactly firing the blanks so to say, you loaded the gun and I fired it.

BOD was under the media spin of Alistair Campbell who at the time span the story in the British press like a champion. To be honest any other person would have done the same in the same situation. I don't think you quite grasp that playing for the British and Irish Lions is the most iconic thing for any British player, so when you are captain of the tour and it gets ended by a real cheap shot then yes ... you feel angry about it and you want to vent your frustration out so he did.

I dont think he was saying Cowan was a saint. He was more saying that Cowan is a hardcunt and BOD is a crybaby. Thats why showing that he has an alcohol problem is a poor arguement, that just adds to his ruggedness.

BOD has taken many blows to head and continued.
But lads I thought New Zealand being so skillful and all would be the main party trying to stamp the thuggery out but it sounds like all ye do is encourage it. I'm a fan of playing rough and playing on the edge. But when you put a man out of a tour that was supposed to be one of his greatest highs captaining a Lions tour and missing 6 months. Then try and defend it then that is poor showing.
Umaga as NZ captain and culprit never once cotacted BOD to apologize or even check how was the shoulder

Umaga said in his autobiography that he called Brian O'driscoll up to apologize and BOD didnt accept the apology.He said that BOD kept telling him what he did was not on and he should have checked on him and all that while Umaga repeated his apology..

Neither you or I really know what really happened, but i prefer to give people the benefit of the doubt. Expecially in a case like Umagas where he has been the perfect example of sportsmanship his entire career.

 

[Teh Mite]

I dont think he was saying Cowan was a saint. He was more saying that Cowan is a hardcunt and BOD is a crybaby. Thats why showing that he has an alcohol problem is a poor arguement, that just adds to his ruggedness.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Sometimes I just wonder what goes through some forum members heads ...

Also ranger ... he pretty much did say Cowan was a saint for not being a so called 'crybaby' so I don't bite that argument. Im actually gob-smacked by what you said about Cowan and booze, shows clearly how some of you think that being speared into the floor is acceptable but having a booze problem is not.

 

[ranger]

Also ranger ... he pretty much did say Cowan was a saint for not being a so called 'crybaby' so I don't bite that argument. Im actually gob-smacked by what you said about Cowan and booze, shows clearly how some of you think that being speared into the floor is acceptable but having a booze problem is not.

The point he made (that i dont agree with) is that BOD is a crybaby and Cowan is a tough guy. He wasn't saying that he was a "saint" for not crying about it, thats just your own interpretation you have spun on it.
He was saying that Jimmy Cowan would have just manned up because hes tough and all that. (again, not my opinion)

So then you bring up an article showing that he has problems getting into drunken fights in Otago. That sort of goes with the image he was portraying.

 

[cyRil]

BOD gets annihilated by a double-spear tackle- powerbomb, Cowan gets a nut in the back of the head and BOD is made to look like a ****?
O'Driscoll would put that gormless **** on his head, and he probably would not like it very much.
SH posters can't half talk **** when they want.

 

[Teh Mite]

The point he made (that i dont agree with) is that BOD is a crybaby and Cowan is a tough guy. He wasn't saying that he was a "saint" for not crying about it, thats just your own interpretation you have spun on it.
He was saying that Jimmy Cowan would have just manned up because hes tough and all that. (again, not my opinion)

So then you bring up an article showing that he has problems getting into drunken fights in Otago. That sort of goes with the image he was portraying.

The bit you've lost it is calling somebody "tough" and "Rugged" because they're an Alcoholic. In fact that opens up such a can of worms, I'm not even going near this one.

 

[lynam1104]

I can't find a video of the England games last year in Croker but it would proved Ranger wrong about BOB. He took two hit's in particular that were pretty bad and was concused for the rest of the game still scored the all important try. can some help by finding the highlights of that game?

 

[nickdnz]

BOD gets annihilated by a double-spear tackle- powerbomb, Cowan gets a nut in the back of the head and BOD is made to look like a ****?
O'Driscoll would put that gormless **** on his head, and he probably would not like it very much.
SH posters can't half talk **** when they want.

Oh we're bringing up the Umaga incident now are we? It's been a while since this was thrown in our faces. I just want to point out something quickly - It was a spear tackle that took place five years ago. Since then there has probably been hundreds of spear tackles taken place during international and first class matches. Get over it. O'Driscoll would not have changed the result of the Lions getting thrashed 3-0. I know this makes me sound like a prat, but the fact that this is still be brought up is pretty sad. The All Blacks have had a player spear tackled twice this year by Jaque Fourie and de Villiers.

People make claims that it was some kind of pre-planned assassnation, when realistically it was probably two players losing their heads at the wrong time, and something which is often an illegle, but common clearing went wrong and a good player was injured for it. The International Comitee for Fair Play awarded Umaga the Pierre de Coubertin Trophy, for potentially saving the life of Colin Charvis after he was hit in a tackle by Jerry Collins. Ask a majority of people from Ireland what they think of when they think of Tana Umaga, and you'll hear things like "thug" or "dirty player". The British and Irish press really blew the situation out of control, and even now, when there is a reference to it, Umaga is made out to be a thug.

I personally think O'Driscoll really did make this a bigger situation than it was. Yes it's frustrating being injured in a spare tackle, especially in a big test, but it was a total over reaction from both the Lions squad and the British and Irish media. Had the tables been turned, I can't see it being talked about today.

Umaga account -

"My first thought was, 'Jeez, don't be a sook; there's no use crying about it, man, it's over'.
"At first, the kerfuffle didn't really bother me. It was a case of 'oh well, that's the way it is'.
"But it just snowballed and O'Driscoll kept going on about the fact that I hadn't rung him to say sorry. I finally obtained his number and got hold of him but it wasn't a warm exchange.
"He was still angry that I hadn't gone over to see how he was, and once he'd got that off his chest, he accused me of being involved in a lot of off-the-ball incidents.
"When he started talking about off-the-ball stuff and me not being a gentleman, I thought, 'Oh, you're reaching now'. I never went out to commit foul play: I didn't punch guys on the ground or stomp on them. So I said, 'Oh well, mate, we'll just have to agree to disagree. I'm sorry for what happened to you but there was no intent in it; it was one of those unfortunate things that happen in rugby.'?"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ru.../Tana-Umaga-reopens-Brian-ODriscoll-feud.html
(one of the many bias NH sources the Telegraph.)
O'Driscoll also admits to have had a conversation, but says some bits were left out.

If you want blown over the top, watch this-

Favourite quotes are -

"It was the single worst incident I've ever seen on a rugby pitch"
"If O'Drsicoll didn't have the upper body strength in his arms, and his hands, his neck would have been broken"
"The malace of trying to dislocate someone's sholder"

I'm sorry, bit it border lines the pathetic. New Zealand is guilty of bringing up past incidents like 1995 World Cup food poisoning and 2007 forward past, and I admit that is pretty lame as it is, but for this to still be going, and the fact that such an ordanary incident of foul play was balooned to this level, really is pretty sad.