Cheetahs and Kings to join "Pro 14"

[Amiga500]

Rumours of BT pushing for a B&I league along with France being the most progressive European nation in expanding the sport make this a possibility.

F**k BT.

It was those c**ts with their greasy moves that left the European Cup in the state its in now.

 

[saulan]

For those worried about the quality of the Kings, they are currently beating the Bulls 22-10 playing away at half time. Top that with having drawn the Sharks at home and beaten them away, and you are looking at quite a competitive team.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

I don't know how reliable this source is but it says:

- confirmation will be on Saturday
- additional support from SARU in year one to provide players and coaches
- two conferences of 7. Winners of each conference go through to the semis, 2nd and 3rd of each conference play quarter finals.

http://m.sport24.co.za/sport24/Rugb...eetahs-exclusion-a-win-win-situation-20170709

Happy with most of that although obviously still lacking a lot of detail.

 

[unrated]

I don't know how reliable this source is but it says:

- confirmation will be on Saturday
- additional support from SARU in year one to provide players and coaches
- two conferences of 7. Winners of each conference go through to the semis, 2nd and 3rd of each conference play quarter finals.

http://m.sport24.co.za/sport24/Rugb...eetahs-exclusion-a-win-win-situation-20170709

Happy with most of that although obviously still lacking a lot of detail.

The website sport 24 is our most reliable website without a doubt. But this was written by a columnist. Nevertheless i think you can safely assume that this is reliable.

The announcement will be made NEXT Saturday after the Cheetahs vs Kings game. So for anyone who wants to see the level of the teams joining the pro 12 I would suggest you watch this match.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

This gonna be fun, hope you like Guinness my Saffa bros!

 

[munstermuffin]

Seems set in stone. We will play Leinster 3 times in regular season

 

[unrated]

This gonna be fun, hope you like Guinness my Saffa bros!

Agreed.
Both our countries are beer loving! I really wanted to like Guinness but oh man it's unbearable to drink stout. Get a gag reflex every time No thanks will stick to local crafted beer! Less pasturization then these mass produced beer!

 

[munstermuffin]

Agreed.
Both our countries are beer loving! I really wanted to like Guinness but oh man it's unbearable to drink stout. Get a gag reflex every time No thanks will stick to local crafted beer! Less pasturization then these mass produced beer!

Wow that looks impressive. I'm pure hyped now as being a physio with Munster I'll get to travel to South Africa and hopefully we get cracking weather

 

[JohnKA]

Will the kings and cheetahs be able to play in the Euro cup should they win the pro 12/14 or finish high enough ? Might be a stupid question but i am not sure how the system work over there .

 

[profitius]

Will the kings and cheetahs be able to play in the Euro cup should they win the pro 12/14 or finish high enough ? Might be a stupid question but i am not sure how the system work over there .

Maybe not in the coming seasons but I don't see why not in the future. I'm sure BT sport will push for it to happen.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Just on the 2 SA teams. I just realised they will basically have no end of season as they have to be set to play in September starting a new term.

Shouldn't be too much of a hassle IMO. At least not for the Cheetahs as the greater majority of their players were off injured or still are. Kings players might be knackered by the end of the Pro 12 but.. I have a sneaking supiscion that the player roster of both these teams will look vastly different to teh ones now finishing SR. The rumors are already saying both Cheetahs wingers and a looseforward are lost and the Kings have already lost their best forward in Chris Cloete to Munster.

how does this affect currie cup?

Currie Cup is already little more than a u20 / fringe player feeder tournament.

For those worried about the quality of the Kings, they are currently beating the Bulls 22-10 playing away at half time. Top that with having drawn the Sharks at home and beaten them away, and you are looking at quite a competitive team.

The Kings certainly look (and are currently) a mid table team. I'm fairly confident in saying a mid table SR team should be a mid table Pro14 team. I doubt though that these player rosters will look similar heading into the Pro 12. We'll have to wait and see.

 

[JohnKA]

I kind of wish they would have dropped the sharks and let them play pro14 just for the sake of playing other teams for a change , might seem silly but i would welcome a change from SR it has turned into a bore fest for me.

 

[unrated]

I kind of wish they would have dropped the sharks and let them play pro14 just for the sake of playing other teams for a change , might seem silly but i would welcome a change from SR it has turned into a bore fest for me.

I can't agree with this.
When we start winning the tournament regularly and dominating the opposition then you can think of going to other leagues. But now Super rugby is the greatest challenge to be able to show these better performing teams that we can mix it with them.

If we leave now it will be like we are just giving up and going to a easier tournament so that we can win. We are the ones that need to improve to make it more interesting not the NZ teams.

 

[munstermuffin]

Shouldn't be too much of a hassle IMO. At least not for the Cheetahs as the greater majority of their players were off injured or still are. Kings players might be knackered by the end of the Pro 12 but.. I have a sneaking supiscion that the player roster of both these teams will look vastly different to teh ones now finishing SR. The rumors are already saying both Cheetahs wingers and a looseforward are lost and the Kings have already lost their best forward in Chris Cloete to Munster.


Currie Cup is already little more than a u20 / fringe player feeder tournament.


The Kings certainly look (and are currently) a mid table team. I'm fairly confident in saying a mid table SR team should be a mid table Pro14 team. I doubt though that these player rosters will look similar heading into the Pro 12. We'll have to wait and see.

Good post there. I agree that both will be comfortable. Might be a bit iffy in 1st season due to getting everything right and the lack of a summer break. But after that I think both will be challenging for top 6 or 7 as both have decent depth which is key. Might not have the quality to win but have the depth so the drop off from starters to squad is not as bad as some team who once they loose 2 or 3 guys it kills them.
Will the weather be an issue too. Getting used to a crappy wet winter night in Glasgow or Connacht etc.

 

[unrated]

The Kings certainly look (and are currently) a mid table team. I'm fairly confident in saying a mid table SR team should be a mid table Pro14 team. I doubt though that these player rosters will look similar heading into the Pro 12. We'll have to wait and see.

This is part of the appeal for me with the Cheetahs and Kings joining. As we will now have a proper benchmark to compare the relative strength of each league.

As for the Cheetahs playing in September in the pro14 so close after Super rugby. They would have had to get ready for the Currie cup that begins soon so these players would have needed to be fit for that in any case. And if they can play Currie cup in Bloemfontein so close to summer then surely they can play pro 14 matches there. The Cheetahs are Currie cup champions so they know how to play at altitude in harsh temperatures this will massively play in their favour if teams comes visiting.

 

[TRF_heineken]

I think a lot still needs to happen before this Pro12/14 expansion happens.

First, will the Cheetahs and the Kings be playing as the franchises they were during Super Rugby? Or will they play as a club/union like the other teams already in the Pro12? If they play as a franchise, then surely the question will be as to whether the Union will be as forthcoming as they were with Super Rugby? Because there were no concurrent tournaments taking place during Super Rugby (Apart from the SS Challenge, but that was for the guys that didn't play Super Rugby in any case).

If they go as a Club/Union, and it is running concurrently with the Currie Cup, won't there be a conflict of when to play which tournament? Or are they going to structure it like they do in Football with the UEFA Champions league and the local leagues?

The Currie Cup starts on the 21st of July and will run until the end of October.

This brings me to my second issue. Are they going to continue with the normal schedule as it is now? I pity the teams that have to come and play in Bloemfontein over December in the middle of the summer...

Lastly, Will the players for the Kings still have their contracts with SARU, or will they fall back under the EPRU??? I think, for the benefit of SA Rugby, they should use this to kickstart the centralised contracts system, maybe see if they can do it with the Cheetahs too and maybe give the Bloem franchise and union a bit of a financial kickstart and try to keep and maintain a decent squad...

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

I have no information but I'd be surprised and disappointed if the SA sides were granted access to European competitions before they committed to all six of their sides playing in Europe long term.

If they were admitted the likely losers would be other Pro12 clubs and the ones from the Continetal Shield (currently 2x Russian clubs). It'd be a step away from having broad representation from many European nations. Like football has become with many places for clubs from countries with big TV deals and zero or one places for clubs from countries with small TV deals.

Disappointing to read the Cheetah and Kings may be raided of top talent. Other than deals that have been done (Cloete) I'd imagine this might not happen as the Pro12 made this a condition of the SA sides joining and there are suggestions both teams will be given "player and coaching assistance" by the SARU in year one.

Good to see the Kings win away at the Bulls. They have consolidated their position as fourth best SA side this year.

 

[munstermuffin]

I think a lot still needs to happen before this Pro12/14 expansion happens.

First, will the Cheetahs and the Kings be playing as the franchises they were during Super Rugby? Or will they play as a club/union like the other teams already in the Pro12? If they play as a franchise, then surely the question will be as to whether the Union will be as forthcoming as they were with Super Rugby? Because there were no concurrent tournaments taking place during Super Rugby (Apart from the SS Challenge, but that was for the guys that didn't play Super Rugby in any case).

If they go as a Club/Union, and it is running concurrently with the Currie Cup, won't there be a conflict of when to play which tournament? Or are they going to structure it like they do in Football with the UEFA Champions league and the local leagues?

The Currie Cup starts on the 21st of July and will run until the end of October.

This brings me to my second issue. Are they going to continue with the normal schedule as it is now? I pity the teams that have to come and play in Bloemfontein over December in the middle of the summer...

Lastly, Will the players for the Kings still have their contracts with SARU, or will they fall back under the EPRU??? I think, for the benefit of SA Rugby, they should use this to kickstart the centralised contracts system, maybe see if they can do it with the Cheetahs too and maybe give the Bloem franchise and union a bit of a financial kickstart and try to keep and maintain a decent squad...

May not be an exact like for like. But In Ireland we have the AIL - And any players contracted to Munster, Leinster etc but aren't in matchday squads are free to play with their AIL club. Both theses leagues run at same times in year.

As was said earlier on the scheduling. Wasn't it said there is a possibility that the peak of summer there will see both franchises travelling and then around the Christmas period they will play eachother twice. like Scottish teams.

 

[profitius]

The kings and cheetahs will have plenty of rest periods due to the stop start nature of northern hemisphere rugby.


Another little benefit for playing against pro12 teams is that there's dozens of South Africans playing in the pro12 already so it might help raise the interest levels further.


Btw, I think the name is going to change too to the Atlantic Rugby Championship.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

This is part of the appeal for me with the Cheetahs and Kings joining. As we will now have a proper benchmark to compare the relative strength of each league.

As for the Cheetahs playing in September in the pro14 so close after Super rugby. They would have had to get ready for the Currie cup that begins soon so these players would have needed to be fit for that in any case. And if they can play Currie cup in Bloemfontein so close to summer then surely they can play pro 14 matches there. The Cheetahs are Currie cup champions so they know how to play at altitude in harsh temperatures this will massively play in their favour if teams comes visiting.

I don't know if it would in fact be a proper benchmark as such; player rosters are likely to change. At least somewhat. There will probably be a bit of a culture/climate shock. More in the way of our teams than the other way around since as far as discussions have seemingly taken place (read earlier posts on here) the aim is to have no Euro teams coming here till much later in the tournament as supposedly as few as possible. Also, teams pick up and drop off fairly haphazradly; I mean, who would have called the Kings topping the Bulls on the log or the Cheetahs (currently CC champions) propping up the bottom of the log (for SA teams). Certainly not the vast majoirty.

I think a lot still needs to happen before this Pro12/14 expansion happens.

First, will the Cheetahs and the Kings be playing as the franchises they were during Super Rugby? Or will they play as a club/union like the other teams already in the Pro12? If they play as a franchise, then surely the question will be as to whether the Union will be as forthcoming as they were with Super Rugby? Because there were no concurrent tournaments taking place during Super Rugby (Apart from the SS Challenge, but that was for the guys that didn't play Super Rugby in any case).

If they go as a Club/Union, and it is running concurrently with the Currie Cup, won't there be a conflict of when to play which tournament? Or are they going to structure it like they do in Football with the UEFA Champions league and the local leagues?

The Currie Cup starts on the 21st of July and will run until the end of October.

This brings me to my second issue. Are they going to continue with the normal schedule as it is now? I pity the teams that have to come and play in Bloemfontein over December in the middle of the summer...

Lastly, Will the players for the Kings still have their contracts with SARU, or will they fall back under the EPRU??? I think, for the benefit of SA Rugby, they should use this to kickstart the centralised contracts system, maybe see if they can do it with the Cheetahs too and maybe give the Bloem franchise and union a bit of a financial kickstart and try to keep and maintain a decent squad...

Its an interesting point to raise. I'd imagine it'd be the SR franchises since they are the entities 'out in the cold'. I'd alos imagine the Unions to be accommodating (at a price of course) since there is sure to be a lot more money to be made in Pro14 than Currie Cup and that'll sway it IMO.

You raise a good point that since the cards are up in the air SARU should see this as an opportunity to take charge properly. As is the Unions run and ruin the game. Centralized contracts is the way to go for sure. Not sure they have it in them to try ad strongarm the Unions but worth a shot. I think the starting point should be a decision on if SARU sees SA's future in Europe or is this just a knee-jerk short term thing, in the Southern Hemisphere or divided. A tough one to muddle over. If I know my SARU they'll just see what pans out. Here's hoping we see the Cheetahs and Kings sucessful. Not that I hold any grudges toward SR or any of our SANZAR partners but I would like to see our best players in our local teams and just think we stand the best chance of achieving this staying in time zone rather than hemisphere. I also question whether the competition between top NH clubs and NZ SR franchizes is as far apart as most (SH fans) seem to imagine.

Disappointing to read the Cheetah and Kings may be raided of top talent. Other than deals that have been done (Cloete) I'd imagine this might not happen as the Pro12 made this a condition of the SA sides joining and there are suggestions both teams will be given "player and coaching assistance" by the SARU in year one.

I do get the idea that despite some player transfers taking place the teams shouldn't be overly affected. TBH my comment is based on very little real info and a few assumptions;
Assumption 1; how much transfer can take place if these teams are set to play in 2 month's time? Key here is how soon players can get clarity on their futures.
Assumption 2; players coming in should be of near enough the same quality as players leaving; for the Cheetahs at least (who seem to be the team with the most turn over in players as far as rumors go) that seems to be the case as they are getting in a couple of SA 7s legends. A good sign also is captain Francois Venter is confirmed as continuing on.