• Help Support The Rugby Forum :

Cheetahs and Kings to join "Pro 14"

I can understand season ticket holders being a bit ****** about not getting as many games but the pro players play too many games as it is and i imagine it will only make the pro 12/14 teams and international teams stronger with the extra rest. I'm all for this and congratulate the people in charge for making a ballsy decision.
 
MikeTheNative said:
I can understand season ticket holders being a bit ****** about not getting as many games
Click to expand...

Eh?

All talk is that its going to be a straight 14 team, 26 game league at the minute. At least for the first season. So ST holders would get 2 extra home games.


I'd be interested in the Welsh perspective - d'you think it'd have much impact on the attendances at the regions?
 
Amiga500 said:
Eh?

All talk is that its going to be a straight 14 team, 26 game league at the minute. At least for the first season. So ST holders would get 2 extra home games.


I'd be interested in the Welsh perspective - d'you think it'd have much impact on the attendances at the regions?
Click to expand...

Sorry should have been clearer, I meant if they went conference style meaning less games. Wales wise probably not to be honest, they still have deep divisions over the the creation of the four regions and the entire north doesn't even have a team! Currently I don't think the population in the south is enough to support 4 teams, Dragons is my local team but I don't think they will survive for much longer and we are going to see a North Wales team in the next 5 years.
 
Talking about teams Wales can support I think (and I am going in far now I know) a critical question SA needs to answer long term is how many (competitive) teams can we realistically support.

I actually don't think we should be too concerned about trying to force all 6 into Europe. 4 in SRis plenty. 2 in Europe opening up the door for Euro based players is bonus. I also don't think the Pro12 can afford to go to Pro18 or even Pro16 assuming the Italian jobs drop to another tier or another league. Travel should be quite managable if there is only 2 SA teams. 14 teams really ought to be the upper limit. Does that actually end my train of thought right there? It pobably does.

If and I think it won't come to more than 2 SA teams joining Eurpean competition but if there is an opening I really do think SA can support 6 full professional teams BUT that assume the money will be there to compete with Euro club sides ITO salaries. I mean, the bases are for us with Bloemfontein the smallest city but still having a decent population and pro facilities. If we could get hold of all our players we could have 6 strong starting XVs but the depth won't match up with that of the bigger Euro clubs.

Anyway the teams look set to learn their SR fate on Friday as there is another council meeting.. hopefully we can then call it whatever it might be official;

http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/SuperRugby/cheetahs-kings-to-learn-their-fate-on-friday-20170704
 
Last edited:
MikeTheNative said:
I can understand season ticket holders being a bit ****** about not getting as many games but the pro players play too many games as it is and i imagine it will only make the pro 12/14 teams and international teams stronger with the extra rest. I'm all for this and congratulate the people in charge for making a ballsy decision.
Click to expand...
I agree that quality of quantity of games is the way to go and have argued in the past that a European League with fewer games is the best way to grow the sport. Having said that, I've paid for 14 home games on my season ticket this year. If I get fewer, I'll be short changed unless ticketbastard want to give me a refund.

There is a way to maintain a 22 game regular season for all teams, introduce the conference system and include 2 new SA teams. The the following 2 conference scenario:

CONFERENCE 1
Scarlets (WAL 1)
Dragons (WAL 4)
Leinster (IRE 2)
Ulster (IRE 3)
Edinburgh (SCO 2)
Treviso (ITA 1)
Kings

CONFERENCE 2
Munster (IRE 1)
Connacht (IRE 4)
Ospreys (WAL 2)
Cardiff Blues (WAL 3)
Glasgow (SCO 1)
Zebre (ITA 2)
Cheetahs

The "cross conference" model could be used.

Teams in conference 1 play every team in conference 2 both home and away leading to 14 games. They play teams in their own conference once (home or away) leading to 6 more games. The extra 2 games are also played against teams in their own conference thus preserving a full home and way fixture list against teams in their own country.

For example, league champions Scarlets would play all of conference 2 twice. They'd play all of conference 1 once. Then they'd play Dragons again meaning they'd face all Welsh teams on a home and away basis. The last game would be against a randomly selected team from their own conference. This is 22 games and keeps season ticket holders happy while preserving rivalries.
 
If there was ever two conferences then Ospreys and Scarlets need to be in the same conference. There was 18,000 at the Liberty this season for that game! We very rarely get a crowd over 10,000 so the ticket sales that this game generates is excellent and we need to keep this fixture.
 
snoopy snoopy dog dog said:
I agree that quality of quantity of games is the way to go and have argued in the past that a European League with fewer games is the best way to grow the sport. Having said that, I've paid for 14 home games on my season ticket this year. If I get fewer, I'll be short changed unless ticketbastard want to give me a refund.

There is a way to maintain a 22 game regular season for all teams, introduce the conference system and include 2 new SA teams. The the following 2 conference scenario:

CONFERENCE 1
Scarlets (WAL 1)
Dragons (WAL 4)
Leinster (IRE 2)
Ulster (IRE 3)
Edinburgh (SCO 2)
Treviso (ITA 1)
Kings

CONFERENCE 2
Munster (IRE 1)
Connacht (IRE 4)
Ospreys (WAL 2)
Cardiff Blues (WAL 3)
Glasgow (SCO 1)
Zebre (ITA 2)
Cheetahs

The "cross conference" model could be used.

Teams in conference 1 play every team in conference 2 both home and away leading to 14 games. They play teams in their own conference once (home or away) leading to 6 more games. The extra 2 games are also played against teams in their own conference thus preserving a full home and way fixture list against teams in their own country.

For example, league champions Scarlets would play all of conference 2 twice. They'd play all of conference 1 once. Then they'd play Dragons again meaning they'd face all Welsh teams on a home and away basis. The last game would be against a randomly selected team from their own conference. This is 22 games and keeps season ticket holders happy while preserving rivalries.
Click to expand...
Snoop there is an issue there though for example. If You were Munster for example. And I had to go to Kings away, Treviso away and Zebre and Cheetahs away but Glasgow got Zebre or Cheetahs or both at home. That is a factor. Also the international Windows will be key
 
Welshdragon2000 said:
If there was ever two conferences then Ospreys and Scarlets need to be in the same conference. There was 18,000 at the Liberty this season for that game! We very rarely get a crowd over 10,000 so the ticket sales that this game generates is excellent and we need to keep this fixture.
Click to expand...

In his system you play the other conference twice so they would.

I think any system will involve teams playing home and home against the teams from their own country.
 
Excited to see how this works out, really hope Pro rugby leaves NA well alone though it makes zero sense.

Not like there isn't any big markets left in europe still. NA has crap unions, crap marketing and crap time zones for the EU.
 
I'd prefer to avoid conferences if at all possible.

I'd rather the league/unions agreed on imposing game-time limitations on all players. Then the additional matches would be more a case of developing younger players than flogging existing ones.
 
Tigs Man said:
Excited to see how this works out, really hope Pro rugby leaves NA well alone though it makes zero sense.

Not like there isn't any big markets left in europe still. NA has crap unions, crap marketing and crap time zones for the EU.
Click to expand...
Looks as though Washington DC are lined up to join in 2018. At least it means Zebra might have someone to beat. I also wonder how many current US players playing abroad would join that team.
 
Just on the 2 SA teams. I just realised they will basically have no end of season as they have to be set to play in September starting a new term.
 
themole25 said:
hopefully none... our best players need to be competing day in day out for spots in good european squads... not having a comfortable place on a subpar pro12 team
Click to expand...

You would at least guarantee getting your top players at international windows. But yes, I favour a Euro timezone league and US doing their own thing.

Kings also making clear remarks about international competitions. There is a big chance this will go belly up but at least the usually totally risk averse rugby authorities are rolling the dice to try and ensure long term health rather than tolerate a slow gradual demise.

I do fear for NZ and Oz rugby, their finances and their ability to retain their international players. I don't get the impression Japan is ready to pump millions into the Super Rugby pot and any Oz vs NZ competition would be laughably uncompetitive.

I feel like NZ is being punished for excelling on and off the field. And that can't be healthy.
 
themole25 said:
how does this affect currie cup?
Click to expand...
I think this issue was going to have to be addressed when the single season worldwide kicked in. Can see Currie cup becoming more a feeder comp with little crossover.
 
Bruce_ma_goose said:
at least the usually totally risk averse rugby authorities are rolling the dice to try and ensure long term health rather than tolerate a slow gradual demise.
Click to expand...
Agree fully. Rugby needs a shake up. The current model of adding more and more games to the club calendar is unsustainable. Will be interesting to see how the schedule plays out after the first season.

I see the English, Scottish, Welsh, Irish, French, Italian and South African seasons aligning in one competition in the not too distant future. Perhaps this'll take the form of a SA/B&I conference and a continental European conference. Rumours of BT pushing for a B&I league along with France being the most progressive European nation in expanding the sport make this a possibility.

If the TV contracts of these major players can be sorted out, it's a potential goldmine. For now, SA integration into the Pro12/14 is a promising first step.
 

Similar threads

T
URC 2023/24 Round 14
2
Replies
32
Views
1K
Tooting Carmen
T
saulan
URC and Premiership merger discussions?
2 3
Replies
40
Views
5K
dirty harry
D
I
Provinces to help cover central IRFU contracts
Replies
1
Views
318
Leonormous Boozer
Leonormous Boozer
S
LAST CHANCE TO ENTER - Signed Rugby Jerseys Raffle!
Replies
1
Views
267
Simon Tierney
S
big ginger 8
Potential New Competition between Irish Provincial A teams and Cheetahs, Pumas and Griquas
Replies
16
Views
2K
Bruce_ma gooshvili
Bruce_ma gooshvili

Latest posts

Top