Cheetahs and Kings to join "Pro 14"

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

Either way change is a coming boys. Can't wait to see how this develops.

Change is needed too. Striking the right balance is all important. While adding two SA teams to the Pro 12 could give it a welcome shot in the arm, adding 4 more games to an already crowded calendar seems crazy. Presumably it'll only be a one year thing before the season is restructured into conferences. There'd be uproar if people paid for season tickets expecting 14 home games in Europe and the Pro 12 only to see that reduced by a new arrangement. Likewise sponsors etc would have to be appeased. I'd happily pay proportionately more for fewer games but games of higher quality.

 

[munstermuffin]

Change is needed too. Striking the right balance is all important. While adding two SA teams to the Pro 12 could give it a welcome shot in the arm, adding 4 more games to an already crowded calendar seems crazy. Presumably it'll only be a one year thing before the season is restructured into conferences. There'd be uproar if people paid for season tickets expecting 14 home games in Europe and the Pro 12 only to see that reduced by a new arrangement. Likewise sponsors etc would have to be appeased. I'd happily pay proportionately more for fewer games but games of higher quality.

As I said earlier Snoop it's a new era in terms of the game structures and global stanve evolving. Like people forget in a way the game still only 20+ years pro.

 

[Amiga500]

Probably the ~35 degree Celsius average highs. Games could be played at 19h00 local when it gets cool which would make it 17h00 GMT. Kinda ideal?

What about 21h00 local ==> 19h00 GMT?

Would that work for youse?

 

[Amiga500]

adding 4 more games to an already crowded calendar seems crazy.

I see pros and cons.

If the unions imposed an upper limit on players gametime - then the larger teams (due to having internationals and having the European cup games) would be "forced" into squad development [most already do, some better than others]. The smaller teams, without these distractions, would then be in a better (albeit somewhat artificial) position to close the gap on those larger teams.

But every union in the league would have to agree to it.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

SA makes sense but not NA IMO.

 

[Car]

Don't forget that unlike SA, the European countries involved use DST. So that makes it GMT in winter in the UK/ROI, GMT+1 in summer, but GMT+1 in winter in Italy and GMT+2 in summer (same as SA).

SA makes more sense than NA to me, too. Travel and bigger time zone differences aren't such a great combination. This really looks promising and I'd definitely follow the new league.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Stole this from somewhere. Don't know where it came from and can't trace it online. More speculation around format and TV money. Says Pro12 asking for more SA internationals to play for the two sides.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Good news:
Kings and Cheetahs are playing exciting rugby. Kings beating the Jaguares in Argentina and the Cheetahs pushing the Stormers to the wire.

Bad news:
Rumors in the Cape are that we are sgining a host of top Cheetahs talent, most notably star wings Rhule and Petersen and Bok loose forward Oupa Mohoje as well as a two of the more promising Free State age group players. I put this in bad news because I find it bad news for both the Cheetahs, Pro 12 (14?) AND the Stormers. We already have a lot of options out wide in Kolbe, Senatla, Marais and Lleyds. These guys are already all puny if elusive. Why we add Petersen and Rhule I wouldn't know. I'd want more balance. Mohoje also won't bring balance to our loose trio. Carr, Kolisi, Notshe and Mohoje while all quality players are too similar and we need a grafter and breakdown specialist in there. I was hoping for Chris Cloete of the Kings (who the Stormers opted not to sign up 2 years ago) would come back.

On the good side the Cheetahs have also announced signing a few star players albeit SA 7s players. I expect Rhule out with Cecil Africa coming in might even work in the Cheetahs' favor but I have no idea how those star 7s players will translate to the 15 man code. The Cheetahs do have something of a history of developing players for the SA 7s side.

What about 21h00 local ==> 19h00 GMT?

Would that work for youse?

I actually wouldn't know what would get the Free State supporters to go to their stadium. They are the most absent fan base in SA. They should really look to move to a smaller location.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Good news:
Kings and Cheetahs are playing exciting rugby. Kings beating the Jaguares in Argentina and the Cheetahs pushing the Stormers to the wire.

Indeed. And it begs the question as to why are these 2 teams both being looked at to be demoted, while the Sunwolves regsistered another 90-point loss.

Bad news:
Rumors in the Cape are that we are sgining a host of top Cheetahs talent, most notably star wings Rhule and Petersen and Bok loose forward Oupa Mohoje as well as a two of the more promising Free State age group players. I put this in bad news because I find it bad news for both the Cheetahs, Pro 12 (14?) AND the Stormers. We already have a lot of options out wide in Kolbe, Senatla, Marais and Lleyds. These guys are already all puny if elusive. Why we add Petersen and Rhule I wouldn't know. I'd want more balance.

I hate these rumours. All they do is to make everyone speculate and puts the players under enormous stress. Why the Stormers of all teams would want to buy wingers and flankers is beyond me. That is the one area where they have ton of good players like you mentioned. Then again, it's pretty typical of the Stormers to do this, they did it with Habana... Maybe this is the first step into making Kolbe more of a scrumhalf??

Mohoje also won't bring balance to our loose trio. Carr, Kolisi, Notshe and Mohoje while all quality players are too similar and we need a grafter and breakdown specialist in there. I was hoping for Chris Cloete of the Kings (who the Stormers opted not to sign up 2 years ago) would come back.

Yeah, If there's one place where Mohoje shouldn't be going, it's the Stormers. I personally think he'll thrive at the Lions, and could even be a sub for them at both Flanker and Lock.

On the good side the Cheetahs have also announced signing a few star players albeit SA 7s players. I expect Rhule out with Cecil Africa coming in might even work in the Cheetahs' favor but I have no idea how those star 7s players will translate to the 15 man code. The Cheetahs do have something of a history of developing players for the SA 7s side.

To be fair, a lot of teams sign 7's players, but they never play for the franchise/union. But what is more positive for me is that players like Francois Venter signed a deal to stay in Bloem. He was one guy I would've thought would be lured away if the Cheetahs would be relegated.

I actually wouldn't know what would get the Free State supporters to go to their stadium. They are the most absent fan base in SA. They should really look to move to a smaller location.

I think pricing of the tickets have a massive impact. During the Currie Cup the stadium is most of the times packed to the rafters, but for Super Rugby, it's nearly empty all of the time. Another thing they should consider is to have some sort of Student discount for UFS and CUT.

 

[unrated]

Yes if the Cheetahs can move to a smaller stadium around the size of Allianz park (Saracens) then the atmosphere would be better. The stadium in Bloem is only the size it is because of the 95 World Cup . There are many Cheetahs Supporters but they are spread out over the free state and North west provinces into towns such as Potchefstroom and Klerksdorp. So there are many who watch their team and support them passionately but it's just too far for these people to go and support the Cheetahs week in and week out. This is where the pro 14 tv deal will become important. As the Cheetahs will definitely contribute TV numbers.

I also know that as a Sharks supporter I'm not alone in saying that I will have a keen interest in the matches if these Super rugby sides join the pro 14

 

[TRF_heineken]

I also know that as a Sharks supporter I'm not alone in saying that I will have a keen interest in the matches if these Super rugby sides join the pro 14

Actually, I think the tv numbers of South Africa as a whole would increase dramatically when watching the Pro12/14 if we have team(s) playing in it. I for one, would actually start to watch more of the NH games because of this.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Indeed. And it begs the question as to why are these 2 teams both being looked at to be demoted, while the Sunwolves regsistered another 90-point loss.

'untapped markets'/'money' etc etc etc

I hate these rumours. All they do is to make everyone speculate and puts the players under enormous stress. Why the Stormers of all teams would want to buy wingers and flankers is beyond me. That is the one area where they have ton of good players like you mentioned. Then again, it's pretty typical of the Stormers to do this, they did it with Habana... Maybe this is the first step into making Kolbe more of a scrumhalf??

Yeah, If there's one place where Mohoje shouldn't be going, it's the Stormers. I personally think he'll thrive at the Lions, and could even be a sub for them at both Flanker and Lock.

To be fair, a lot of teams sign 7's players, but they never play for the franchise/union. But what is more positive for me is that players like Francois Venter signed a deal to stay in Bloem. He was one guy I would've thought would be lured away if the Cheetahs would be relegated.

I agree Mohoje would be suited better suited at the Lions but would they want him LOL? Bok he might be but I'd be hard pressed to drop either of Whiteley, Ackermann, Smith or Kriel. It'd do the Lions' "transformation credentials" some good though. Jantjies is their only critial non-white player and he isn't even Nguni. Mapoe and Skosan are the only other non-white players and the Lions could lose both without any drop in performance. I actually have Vorster > Mapoe personally. Kinda gets me thinking pessimistic thoughts; the one SA union/franchise where race does not seem to effect selections and isn't a driver in the back room is the only SA team likely to pose any sort of challenge to NZ sides. The Stormers for instance have looked to me to in recent years to be actively trying to cull the traditional 'white' presence. Just look at Robert du Preez getting cut with Willemse coming in.. maybe its just my paranoia and pessimism talking.. I don't know.

I think pricing of the tickets have a massive impact. During the Currie Cup the stadium is most of the times packed to the rafters, but for Super Rugby, it's nearly empty all of the time. Another thing they should consider is to have some sort of Student discount for UFS and CUT.

Personally I think its just culture and distance. Mostly culture. I could write a whole essay here but think it would be too much of a waste of time.

Yes if the Cheetahs can move to a smaller stadium around the size of Allianz park (Saracens) then the atmosphere would be better. The stadium in Bloem is only the size it is because of the 95 World Cup . There are many Cheetahs Supporters but they are spread out over the free state and North west provinces into towns such as Potchefstroom and Klerksdorp. So there are many who watch their team and support them passionately but it's just too far for these people to go and support the Cheetahs week in and week out. This is where the pro 14 tv deal will become important. As the Cheetahs will definitely contribute TV numbers.

I also know that as a Sharks supporter I'm not alone in saying that I will have a keen interest in the matches if these Super rugby sides join the pro 14

As a Stormers fan I also wouldn't mind us shifting to Europe. I just thought they'd never have us as their existing setup is so compact and functions well enough so why take the chance?

ITO time frames it makes more sense. We would be in the position to compare apples with apples when discussing the relative form of our local players and players based in Europe and one would hope we'd be in a position to keep more of our better players if we are in these tournaments and get equity.

I'd also sooner travel to watch the Stormers in Europe than Aus/NZ if only because of the disparity in traveling costs. I'm hoping the Cheetahs and Kings are well received and more importantly, add value to the tournament. I am sure that (even with heavy player rotations being highly likely) that they'd at least be more competitive than the Italian sides already in the comp.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I'm most interested in if this means we could have a SA team in the champions cup.

I mean the Pro 12 has changed it qualifciation process to the top 6 teams.

Personally would be quite excited to see a SA team in the CC I think the SA supporters would love the competition.

 

[unrated]

I'm most interested in if this means we could have a SA team in the champions cup.

I mean the Pro 12 has changed it qualifciation process to the top 6 teams.

Personally would be quite excited to see a SA team in the CC I think the SA supporters would love the competition.

That would be awesome and will obviously create even more excitement . But I can already anticipate resistance from other European teams claiming that teams from SA can't take up their places in the European champions cup. And to be honest it would be completely understandable. So if for example the Cheetahs finish in the top 4 they can give the last CC spot to the next best placed finisher (in 7th). The Cheetahs can then use the Currie Cup as their second competition instead .

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

That would be awesome and will obviously create even more excitement . But I can already anticipate resistance from other European teams claiming that teams from SA can't take up their places in the European champions cup. And to be honest it would be completely understandable. So if for example the Cheetahs finish in the top 4 they can give the last CC spot to the next best placed finisher (in 7th). The Cheetahs can then use the Currie Cup as their second competition instead .

Would it be anything new though? The expected resistance I mean? From a SA POV I routinely see NZ and Aussie posters (TBF mostly on other platforms) asking for us to get booted and even here questioning our teams' presence in the play-offs. It'd be an irritation for all for sure but its an existing reality in any case. From a Europian POV the Italian inclusion in Pro12 is also continually questioned and they are undoubtedly a part of Europe. At least our inclusion would up the quality of matches and get the games in general more meaningful. IE the Scots, Irish and Welsh are used to the inclusion of teams with an 'uncomfortable fit'. Used to be the same in the Heineken Cup where the pools with Italian sides were all but assured of having two teams go through for the play-offs.

The Italians can play the Georgians, Germans, Spanish, Belgians or whatever teams are more on a par with them in a separate league or look to piggy back the Pro D2. The only reason they are included currently (correct me if I'm wrong) is because between Ireland, Scotland and Wales they only 10 teams and seemingly there is a need to have 12 to 14 teams for the format to more closely resemble the T14 and Premiership for the sake of symmetry looking at the ECC and have that increased amount of games to be able to try to match those leagues as a sporting product.

 

[Stumpy]

My issue with the SA teams joining the CC is that the games would be hard to get to as someone who tries to go to as many of our CC games as possible I would be very disappointed to get an SA team in the pool as it is a game I more than likely will not be able to attend.

 

[Amiga500]

But I can already anticipate resistance from other European teams claiming that teams from SA can't take up their places in the European champions cup.

I don't know if they have grounds to.

The greedy f**k McCafferty made his bed by insisting on league meritocracy only and doing away with per country quotas.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Spoke to my cousin regarding my taxes and seeing as he is a Cheetahs fan mentioned this to him. He sounded pretty keen on getting on a flight to Ireland where he traveled while working on farms after school. Guess you will be hearing cries of "Vrystaaaat!" in Ireland. Probably the vuvuzelas won't make the trip.

My issue with the SA teams joining the CC is that the games would be hard to get to as someone who tries to go to as many of our CC games as possible I would be very disappointed to get an SA team in the pool as it is a game I more than likely will not be able to attend.

Fully understandable. I accept a trip to Bloemfontein is bit more of an ask than one to Parma.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Spoke to my cousin regarding my taxes and seeing as he is a Cheetahs fan mentioned this to him. He sounded pretty keen on getting on a flight to Ireland where he traveled while working on farms after school. Guess you will be hearing cries of "Vrystaaaat!" in Ireland. Probably the vuvuzelas won't make the trip.



Fully understandable. I accept a trip to Bloemfontein is bit more of an ask than one to Parma.

I love traveling South African fans, they have a perfect blend of arrogance and banter, you'll really rub it in if you win but take it just as well when you lose!

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Another article showing the usual imagination and positivity of my people!

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/40464201

Yes, there are issues but it's the selective use if stats that ignores me. Ignore that the Cheetahs are Currie Cup champs and that the Kings have improved dramatically and are a mid table SR side this year.

Flaws in the guys arithmetic too, and I'm not sure how three Scottish derbies would work in a system of reduced games.

A pretty much complete failure to acknowledge what a Pro12 would look like with most internationals playing in another league. It's not about comparing 2016 with 2017. It's about thinking what does 2020 or 2025 look like if we don't do this?