Aviva Premiership 2017/18 Round 21

[ratsapprentice]

Quins are abject though. Even if Kingston's the main issue, there were still a number of highly capped players on display who ought to have fronted up and ensured they didn't capitulate. Feels like the problems may run deep.

Seems to be a culture issue, and a swathe of fairly mediocre players.

The close knit group of friends gone wrong, now that some of those friends are the coaches? Too much of a good thing?
Do they need someone to come in and create a bit of distance between the coaching staff and players?

 

[will311293]

Interested to see what everyone thought about Haskell's comments... I know he's not everyone's cup of tea.... but think he had a point... some of the decisions about high tackles are becoming ridiculous.. and seems to change from ref to ref....

I've got to say (and I don't like having a go at refs despite that im about to) but the quality of consistent reffing was appalling this weekend. There seems to be no clear consistency between refs over similar issues such as when the balls out at ruck, lineouts that become mauls etc, seatbelt tackles etc. Watching both the Newcastle vs Leicester game and the Wasps vs Northampton game, their were some terrible decisions.. And the over reliance on the TMO is getting extreme in some aspects...

 

[TRF_Olyy]

The giant man baby who cried to the referee about getting squirted with a water bottle complains about the game becoming "pathetic"
Top kek



Realistically though the high tackle laws need to be looked at. I'll harp on about seatbelt tackles forever, hate how they're penalised. Either referees need to be given more leeway to use their discretion in judging hits (which will no doubt lead to many many disgruntled fans when the opposition aren't penalised for borderline hits) or they need a complete revamp

 

[will311293]

The giant man baby who cried to the referee about getting squirted with a water bottle complains about the game becoming "pathetic"
Top kek



Realistically though the high tackle laws need to be looked at. I'll harp on about seatbelt tackles forever, hate how they're penalised. Either referees need to be given more leeway to use their digression in judging hits (which will no doubt lead to many many disgruntled fans when the opposition aren't penalised for borderline hits) or they need a complete revamp

Haha got to say having seen previous comments over Haskell I was expecting that from you Olyy

100% agree though.. it's a difficult rule to apply as one mans penalty is another's clean hit... I

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I wouldn't want to ref, it's a virtually impossible job. Even with 2 assistants and the TMO.

I'd like to see more common sense and discretion, but with extreme TV scrutiny that will never happen. Genie out of the bottle.

Seems to be a culture issue, and a swathe of fairly mediocre players.

The close knit group of friends gone wrong, now that some of those friends are the coaches? Too much of a good thing?
Do they need someone to come in and create a bit of distance between the coaching staff and players?

Exactly - some daft decisions all round. And there is precisely no correlation between top player and top coach in any event, especially those who haven't bothered to earn their coaching stripes. As Mr Gerrard is about to find out in spades if he takes the Rangers job. That's a lamb to the slaughter if ever there was one.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Aye, Evans and Easter had been pro-active in getting a foot in the door with coaching Wimbledon... but that's what, Nat-1/2?
You need more than 3 years in charge of an amateur side to be ready for the top flight.
Quins should be applauded for keeping long-serving members of their organisation, but they need to prove themselves at every level before promotion.

 

[Which Tyler]

Agreed, and I really hope Bath have already learned this lesson with their grooming of Hooper - though he seems to be being groomed for a DoR role, rather then coaching.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I've never quite understood the seatbelt tackle being penalised. It felt more like penalising a player for doing something almost dangerous rather than actually dangerous. I mean there is a reason a seatbelt goes across your body like that, because it is one of the safer ways to restrain your body without putting too much pressure on any vital parts such as the head and neck. Whilst it is poor technique, I've never seen a player injured from a seatbelt tackle. On the flip side flying into rucks with minimal control or clearing out players whose legs are stuck account for plenty of injuries.

 

[Which Tyler]

Agreed entirely.
It sdeems to follow the law of unintended consequences as being a tackle above the shoulder

 

[Mr Ruggleby]

I've never quite understood the seatbelt tackle being penalised. It felt more like penalising a player for doing something almost dangerous rather than actually dangerous. I mean there is a reason a seatbelt goes across your body like that, because it is one of the safer ways to restrain your body without putting too much pressure on any vital parts such as the head and neck. Whilst it is poor technique, I've never seen a player injured from a seatbelt tackle. On the flip side flying into rucks with minimal control or clearing out players whose legs are stuck account for plenty of injuries.

Agree with almost all of this. I think the aim is to prevent slipping up to the head and swinging arms around the head/neck area. It's not perfect, but it is easier to police a rule that says "above the shoulder = penalty" rather than have something more subjective. Regarding no injuries, I would have been inclined to agree before doing a bit of googling:

Clearing out of rucks will need to be addressed in the near future - flying in with a shoulder to stationary players with their neck/head/back exposed and their legs often trapped is asking for injuries.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

To be pedantic, looking at that video he hit him in the head first and then slid down but it looks like what did the damage is as the flipped over after, the players head got whipped quite badly. It's more to do with that motion that the fact his arm went across his chest. As you sort of mentioned, the seatbelt tackle is illegal more because it is close to being something dangerous rather than dangerous itself. In that sense I'd say it was similar to tackling someone quite on the chest, there is a chance it could deflect upwards and you could smack them in the chin with your shoulder but if that doesn't actually happen, a player won't be penalised.

The rucks are a mess, both in terms of what players can get away with but also with the fact players just fly into other players like they are tackle bags.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

All about the departure. He was screwed by the BOD TBF and until Tom at the least is off it he wouldn't think about coming back.
But as I said I could see him coming back if Tom and co where sacked off, would give him such pleasure to get Tigers successful again and a big fuk you to those up top.

3 People I think needs going
Chairman - Tom
Head of Rugby Operations - Gylnn
Head Coach - O'Connor

I would take as replacements
Head of Rugby Operations - Deano
Head Coach - Vesty
Although currently I think Head coach is not the highest priority.

Could also do with binning a decent chunk of the squad.
Manu needs to be given a lower contract or let go of also you need your marquee players playing.

Honestly we need to have a clear 2/3 year plan and just focus on that not necessarily play-offs (the 14 year streak IMO had become too much of a issue and seemed to be make that top 4 everything is fine when it clearly wasn't).

If I was in charge I would
Go after an experienced DOR to hold the fort.
Go After Vesty as Head Coach (Would be hard to get him out of contract from saints but reckon he might have a head coach clause).

Do you think you'll dump O'Connor? He ended 11 straight years of top 4s (He was HC for one win albeit with a stacked squad that underachieved elsewhere) here and what 14 for you?

Problems up top will stop any team from winning anything but with a good head coach there's no reason you shouldn't be a playoff side requiring a last round win to ensure European qualification. MO'C will never get the full potential out of any team, its proven in every HC role he's ever had, surely he must be dismissed?

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Do you think you'll dump O'Connor? He ended 11 straight years of top 4s (He was HC for one win albeit with a stacked squad that underachieved elsewhere) here and what 14 for you?

Problems up top will stop any team from winning anything but with a good head coach there's no reason you shouldn't be a playoff side requiring a last round win to ensure European qualification. MO'C will never get the full potential out of any team, its proven in every HC role he's ever had, surely he must be dismissed?

Honestly no point kicking out the Head Coach till the main root of the problem is fixed.
We where going backwards for the last 4 years cockers was holding it together with duck tape and he was part of the problem.

Suspect MOC MIGHT get another year purely because it will be fecking hard to find one a year before the world cup and this close to the season end.

Prob easier to sack the head of rugby operations (Look for a David Humphreys, Dean Richards type person with the idea they hand;e the back roow) and give him a year to decide what to do with MOC and Head Coach.