All Blacks vs Springboks, July 17th 2010, Second Tri Nations Test

[User1245]

Hmm, dark times for the SA rugby fans.

I hope you guys get back on trail for the WC.

Nah bro, this is business as usual. Being a Springbok supporter is a roller coaster ride.
Plus, these so called "dark days" are nothing compared to the past. We're ranked number 2 in the world, and I firmly believe the only team that can beat us are the AB's. I'm OK with that, for now.

 

[Amobokoboko]

Well yeah true, it can only getting better.

 

[SavageLez]

The only good thing that has come of this is that South Africa don't have to wear the "Favourite" tag going into next years World Cup, similar to 2007 when NZ won the Tri Nations. If South Africa do not win the WC in NZ next year however I would love for NZ to win it! I just hope they don't choke under the pressure as favourites.

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Nah bro, this is business as usual. Being a Springbok supporter is a roller coaster ride.
Plus, these so called "dark days" are nothing compared to the past. We're ranked number 2 in the world, and I firmly believe the only team that can beat us are the AB's. I'm OK with that, for now.

That's the best part. The All Blacks always choke against other teams. In 2007 it was France but now they were so clever to seed them together with the French in the group-stage so a loss won't kick them out of the tournament immediately. When I look at the All Blacks I can say that the only threat is themselves. the Boks have to really improve their play to make a decent chance to win the World Cup next year. Then again, if we don't win, I don't mind the All Blacks to win it again. It's about time after 24 years.

 

[ORothlain]

Rene Ranger...wow...what a game he had!

 

[smartcooky]

Last night I reviewed the match and would like to make a comment as to why I think McCaw was not yellow carded.

The stats show that McCaw was pinged only three times in the match; twice for breakdown infringements, at which point he was personally warned he was pushing things.

Then another player committed a similar offence, and McCaw was called over and given a general team warning for repeated infringements "in the red zone". A team warning is, of course, given to the Captain.

Later in the match when New Zealand were on attack McCaw was penalised for going off his feet. Rolland says to McCaw "I know you were not at fault, you were pushed over but you must stay on your feet." Probably because this was not in the "red zone" he did not get carded.

So he gets penalised two times, gets warned, heeds the warning, someone else infringes so in his role as Captain, he gets a team warning, then he gets pinged later for a different offence that wasn't really his fault.

So at what point in this sequence should he have been shown the yellow?

 

[rusty_lock]

Last night I reviewed the match and would like to make a comment as to why I think McCaw was not yellow carded.

The stats show that McCaw was pinged only three times in the match; twice for breakdown infringements, at which point he was personally warned he was pushing things.

Then another player committed a similar offence, and McCaw was called over and given a general team warning for repeated infringements "in the red zone". A team warning is, of course, given to the Captain.

Later in the match when New Zealand were on attack McCaw was penalised for going off his feet. Rolland says to McCaw "I know you were not at fault, you were pushed over but you must stay on your feet." Probably because this was not in the "red zone" he did not get carded.

So he gets penalised two times, gets warned, heeds the warning, someone else infringes so in his role as Captain, he gets a team warning, then he gets pinged later for a different offence that wasn't really his fault.

So at what point in this sequence should he have been shown the yellow?

About half way through the Haka

 

[shtove]

About half way through the Haka

Harhar!!!

Didn't see the match, but smartcooky always talks sense. Plus Rolland is about as close as the Irish can get to an RWC final.

 

[rusty_lock]

My opinion is that Richie McCaw has an amazing ability to play right to the edge of what the referee will allow. That changes from week to week and he seems to have the ability figure out exactly what he can get away with. Others complain about inconsistent refereeing but Richie just adapts and gets on with the job. That's what makes him so great and everyone else so mad.

 

[smartcooky]

My opinion is that Richie McCaw has an amazing ability to play right to the edge of what the referee will allow. That changes from week to week and he seems to have the ability figure out exactly what he can get away with. Others complain about inconsistent refereeing but Richie just adapts and gets on with the job. That's what makes him so great and everyone else so mad.

Great post. That is just about the best analysis of the way McCaw plays that I have ever seen.

 

[woodward]

all this blame on the ref (by players, coach, media and evidently a good portion of viewing public) is almost as embarrassing for South Africa as the games themselves. Is it possible to be so arrogant after one dubiously successful season to think that losing to the best team in the world is only possible with assistance from the ref?

 

[woodward]

Ranger dropped http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=10659839 not completely surprising

 

[ranger]

Ranger dropped http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=10659839 not completely surprising

This sounds like a bit of a conspiracy theory, but we have seen alot of 1 or two test All Blacks who have been picked up young and then discarded. Guys like Ben Atiga, Sosene Anesi, Kevin Senio, Scott Hamilton, Hosea Gear, Scott Waldrom, George Whitelock, Ben Smith, Tamati Ellison etc..

Does anyone think that the Selection panel might just be picking up promising players and getting them one or two caps just to make them ineligible for any other nation?
Most of the time these guys have been left field selections at the time, but are all undoubtedly very talented. Guys like Anesi could play for Samoa but his one cap rules him out, as a result of that he has stick around in NZ, for the benefit of NZ rugby. Australia has made no secret of the fact that they want to lure young Kiwis over to eventually play for the Wallabies, same goes for England and Japan. Could the NZRU be identifying possible australian/english/japanese/ whoever targets such as Whitelock and Ranger and giving them one cap so they wont leave NZ? Or if they do, they wont be able to play against NZ?

 

[gmoe]

This sounds like a bit of a conspiracy theory, but we have seen alot of 1 or two test All Blacks who have been picked up young and then discarded. Guys like Ben Atiga, Sosene Anesi, Kevin Senio, Scott Hamilton, Hosea Gear, Scott Waldrom, George Whitelock, Ben Smith, Tamati Ellison etc..

Does anyone think that the Selection panel might just be picking up promising players and getting them one or two caps just to make them ineligible for any other nation?
Most of the time these guys have been left field selections at the time, but are all undoubtedly very talented. Guys like Anesi could play for Samoa but his one cap rules him out, as a result of that he has stick around in NZ, for the benefit of NZ rugby. Australia has made no secret of the fact that they want to lure young Kiwis over to eventually play for the Wallabies, same goes for England and Japan. Could the NZRU be identifying possible australian/english/japanese/ whoever targets such as Whitelock and Ranger and giving them one cap so they wont leave NZ? Or if they do, they wont be able to play against NZ?

It makes sense, but I think Ranger was picked on Super 14 form and his ability to beat the one-on-one tackle.

His dropping from the squad reflects the mixed game he had, although there were some good touches there were also some mistakes. Ted has made it clear that he wants the AB's to be mistake free, and I'm still scratching my head as to why Gear isn't in the squad.

Dagg's try was brilliant though and I wouldn't be surprised if Ted picks him at wing against the Wallabies. The benefit of having three fullbacks is that all three are good under the high ball which is an area where wingers can sometimes go missing a-la Rokocoko.

 

[gmoe]

Olyy i try, had to edit half that post man, some of it was in english and half of it in afrikaans and as you noticed some of it in snake language too.

Spies got almost everything pace, strength etc. just lacks a bit of stamina but more importantly AGGRESSION, he looks like a big wimp with ball in hand...slow and no direction, Lumo always had the look like he wanted to kill you he didn't want to run in space just plain over you.

Pretty Depressing weekend with the Bulls loosing too if i don't post again it meant i threw myself over a "brug".

Spies was extremely dissapointing. I think he loses his head when he sees his team mates get absolutely bashed at the advantage line. Maybe its something to do with experience but someone of his size and skill needs to step up. I watched the Bulls go down to the QLD Reds this season and he went missing for almost 80 minutes. He made one good line bust and gave an offload which went to ground but after that he was nowhere to be seen. I think the key for the AB's and Wallabies is to hit him as hard as they can as often as they can, and watch him crawl into his shell for the rest of the game.

 

[smartcooky]

This sounds like a bit of a conspiracy theory, but we have seen alot of 1 or two test All Blacks who have been picked up young and then discarded. Guys like Ben Atiga, Sosene Anesi, Kevin Senio, Scott Hamilton, Hosea Gear, Scott Waldrom, George Whitelock, Ben Smith, Tamati Ellison etc..

Does anyone think that the Selection panel might just be picking up promising players and getting them one or two caps just to make them ineligible for any other nation?
Most of the time these guys have been left field selections at the time, but are all undoubtedly very talented. Guys like Anesi could play for Samoa but his one cap rules him out, as a result of that he has stick around in NZ, for the benefit of NZ rugby. Australia has made no secret of the fact that they want to lure young Kiwis over to eventually play for the Wallabies, same goes for England and Japan. Could the NZRU be identifying possible australian/english/japanese/ whoever targets such as Whitelock and Ranger and giving them one cap so they wont leave NZ? Or if they do, they wont be able to play against NZ?

It certainly will have crossed their minds. Also, they could just as easily have slotted them into the Sevens team and capture their eligibility that way, or if the really wanted to do that "in bulk" they could reinstate NZ "A" (a.k.a the Junior All Blacks). Any player playing a test for the Juniors would also have their eligibility captured because of iRB Regulation 8.

Regulation 8.2 A Player who has played for the senior fifteen-a-side National Representative Team or the next senior fifteen-a-side National Representative Team or the senior National Representative Sevens Team of a Union is not eligible to play for the senior fifteen-a-side National Representative Team or the next senior fifteen-a-side National Representative Team or the senior National Representative Sevens Team of another Union.

Having said that, I do not believe for a moment that Ranger is "dropped". With Rokocoko out, this was an opportunity to throw Ranger in at the deep end and see how he coped, and I thought he coped well. There is no doubt in my mind that Joe Rocs was always going to come back into the side when he regained fitness.

 

[southseasman]

Hey Ranger you could have something there. Many of our Rugby opponents are always envious that NZ is consistantly satuated with talented players. It would be in their interest to grab some of our up and coming boys to bolster their own competitiveness. The NZRU would be well aware of this and to cover their interests, would try and stop any talent drain...anyway possible. The question one needs to ask is...what happens to these talented lads who truly desire to play first class?

 

[Darwin]

Ranger was already ineligible to play for any other country as he has played both for the sevens team and the Junior All Blacks (as were most of the other players listed) - there is no conspiracy there.

I don't think anyone should be surprised that he's not included in the 26-man squad. Rococoko and Jane are clearly rated as the top two wings at the moment, therefore it was between Ranger and Dagg for the backup outside back spot - it would be pretty hard to not include Dagg after his performance in the weekend.

 

[William18]

This sounds like a bit of a conspiracy theory, but we have seen alot of 1 or two test All Blacks who have been picked up young and then discarded. Guys like Ben Atiga, Sosene Anesi, Kevin Senio, Scott Hamilton, Hosea Gear, Scott Waldrom, George Whitelock, Ben Smith, Tamati Ellison etc..

Does anyone think that the Selection panel might just be picking up promising players and getting them one or two caps just to make them ineligible for any other nation?
Most of the time these guys have been left field selections at the time, but are all undoubtedly very talented. Guys like Anesi could play for Samoa but his one cap rules him out, as a result of that he has stick around in NZ, for the benefit of NZ rugby. Australia has made no secret of the fact that they want to lure young Kiwis over to eventually play for the Wallabies, same goes for England and Japan. Could the NZRU be identifying possible australian/english/japanese/ whoever targets such as Whitelock and Ranger and giving them one cap so they wont leave NZ? Or if they do, they wont be able to play against NZ?

People complain about the rotation policy and then they complain that fringe All Blacks aren't ever really given ago. I can see what you mean about some of those players but for most of them it is just too hard to crack the All Blacks. Who is Tamati Ellison going to be able to unseat? If he wants to play centre there are players like Conrad Smith and your man, Ranger, in the way. There is the same competition for fullback and wing. There are about ten better wingers in the country right now than Ben Smith. Scott Waldrom is one of my favorite players but there isn't much point in picking him when McCaw will play every single minute of every single game he is available for. I don't believe in conspiracy theories. If someone wants to say something then they must have hard evidence. Your proposal seems more unlikely when the NZRU were trying to do this last year http://http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=10612291. Steve Tew himself said the following:

"If they have legitimate eligibility connections to two countries - one being Tier One and the other being Two - and if they are prepared to declare that they are willing to never play for the Tier One country again, then they will be eligible for the Tier Two country and we think a 12-month stand down would be sufficient.

"There are a number of players who have played test rugby for other countries who have eligibility connections to the Pacific Islands and to also some of the Eastern Europe nations."

If the All Blacks are making selections so that players will be ineligible for other countries they aren't going to campaign for the IRB to relax eligibility rules, are they?

As for Ranger, his chances of being picked were not high. I mean, Rococoko is clearly the coaches number one choice so one game isn't going to change that. An incumbent of 63 caps and 45 tries should not be dropped when a new player comes along and plays one average game. Surely, players must have better job security than that? Since the coaches already have Dagg as cover, Ranger isn't needed. I don't think Ranger has been thrown into the trash at all, he just doesn't deserve to permanently start in the All Blacks right now. He obviously has the talent but he needs to keep working hard and he can make it.

 

[ranger]

Ranger was already ineligible to play for any other country as he has played both for the sevens team and the Junior All Blacks (as were most of the other players listed) - there is no conspiracy there.

I don't think anyone should be surprised that he's not included in the 26-man squad. Rococoko and Jane are clearly rated as the top two wings at the moment, therefore it was between Ranger and Dagg for the backup outside back spot - it would be pretty hard to not include Dagg after his performance in the weekend.

Some, like Whitelock, Atiga and Smith hadnt been a part of the 7s or JABs and were rushed in and quickly and dropped just as fast. I was thinking that giving them an all black cap doesn't only serve to prevent them from playing for another team by the rulebook, but it could also serve as an incentive to stay in the country and try to get back in the squad. If you gave Paul ***o a one off test back in 2006, he probably wouldnt have left the country knowing that he had a realistic chance of making the tema. The mere presence of these players in the country and the provincial and super competitions is invaluable for both the player depth and the development of young players in NZ.