A Political Thread

[ncurd]

On the EU I think Scotland has to reapply to join regardless of the UK has left or not. This was a major selling point to keep them part of the union in 2014.

 

[Which Tyler]

On the EU I think Scotland has to reapply to join regardless of the UK has left or not. This was a major selling point to keep them part of the union in 2014.

It was

As far as I recall though, no-one was entirely sure. There's also the possibility of a fudge if it happens soon, that Scotland could "inherit" the UK's place - though th at would definitely be a fudge if independence vote happens after 31/12/20

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Would be interesting because Spain will not want Scotland to join.

And with a Tory majority I can see them being fine with Scotland having a hard border between us and them. Certainly won't let them keep the £

 

[General Melchett]

Previously Spain were lobbying the EU to oppose or downplay the idea of Scotland easily joining the EU after Indyref but I suspect the EU may soften their stance post Brexit especially with Barnier, Tusk and Juncker on the way out.

 

[Reiser99]

You don't have to vote for Farage it's been a LD cornerstone policy since like forever, many activists are hugely passionate about it. One of the key parts of the coalition deal and why it was accepted was reform, sadly the Tories broke their promises on reforming the house of lords. Which should of ended the coalition.

The Greens are also pro electoral reform as well.

Yes your right, but they haven't really pushed it recently. After the 2011 vote it kind of fell of the radar for Lib Dems as a main policy and Greens mainly focus on environmental. While they both want it and have it as a policy it's not the priority and for me it has to be if they actually want to start getting anywhere.

 

[Reiser99]

Previously Spain were lobbying the EU to oppose or downplay the idea of Scotland easily joining the EU after Indyref but I suspect the EU may soften their stance post Brexit especially with Barnier, Tusk and Juncker on the way out.

From what I've read Spain wouldn't oppose Scotland as long as everything was done in the correct way and was all legal.

 

[General Melchett]

From what I've read Spain wouldn't oppose Scotland as long as everything was done in the correct way and was all legal.

I'm not sure what Spain's current stance is but they were certainly pressing the EU to be not so inviting previously. I suspect they (or the EU on their behalf) will find or create some kind of technicality as a way of differentiating Scotland's position with that of Catalonia.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

What Spain say publicly currently could well be different from at the time they have to decide.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

There are enough differences now that Spain needn't object. One of Scotland's priorities will be getting back in the EU and that would be why they become independent. That's not the case for Catalonia. It'd also be another educated (see I'm not actually racist) and English speaking region in the EU and the value of that cant be understated. We have an abnormally high number of multinationals set up here in Ireland for a country our size, Scotland would want to replicate that and could easily with the infrastructure they already have.

I think the EU would be supportive of independence in Scotland and Irish unification. The populations and universities they'd regain leave them as areas with a lot of potential in the EU.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

TBH I hope Scotland Join the EU it's my best chance of getting a EU passport.

 

[Which Tyler]

Just cause it's got very hostile on here over the past couple days ima put out my very boiled down but genuine personal political philosophy and then why this is the best thing that could have happened (I can feel Tyler and Olly getting ****** off already haha).

Sorry, I just wanted to go back to this bit, as it confused me at the time.

What's ****** me off on this forum was downvotes without comment, or with comments limited to "dick" - that sort of thing (AKA trolling); not reasoned discussion.

Equally, if someone comes onto a rugby thread after a match and downvotes comments from supporters of the losing team BECAUSE they supported the losing team; or called people dicks BECAUSE they supported the losing team - I'd be mighty ****** off. But I'm not going to get annoyed at someone coming in and discussing the match; looking at what one team did right and the other wrong - even if I disagree with that person.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

So any clues who the next Labour leader will be? If Corbyn is trying to maneuver that Rebecca Long Bailey into the leadership role Labour will almost certainly lose the next General election in 5 years time.

 

[General Melchett]

Now that Remain is dead, Indyref2 is the only 'people's vote' left and I can see a swathe of support starting to gather from the UK wide Remainer community.

It has the potential to be a huge problem for BoJo. The 'remain' campaign of Indyref1 was called 'Better together' and led by Alisdair Darling. Who would dare take the risk and lead a post Brexit 'Better together 2'? Ruth Davidson is probably the only one with any hope of winning and I don't think she'd touch it with a barge pole. She was still declaring herself to an EU Remainer during the Tory leadership race and clearly doesn't like BoJo. It was widely accepted that David Cameron would probably have to resign if Scotland voted for independence in 2014 so would the same apply to Cockwomble? Interesting times ahead.

 

[General Melchett]

So any clues who the next Labour leader will be? If Corbyn is trying to maneuver that Rebecca Long Bailey into the leadership role Labour will almost certainly lose the next General election in 5 years time.

As long as Corbyn's far left cronies are in control of party HQ the Tories will be in power for the next ten years.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Gonna be interesting to see what happens - apparently labour is pretty comfortably the biggest party (members wise) in Europe. These members repeatedly voted for Corbyn and are unlikely to vote for a Blair-esque Tory-in-Red.
Awkward situation cause in this climate a real left wing party will not be elected, however you're never going to convince the member base to go against their beliefs and vote in someone they don't believe in and don't agree with.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-50781341

4 other candidates, not counting RLB, and only 2 with any real potential to challenge the Tories and I would not say Thornbury is in anyway a heavyweight candidate. Sir Keir Starmer is the clear obvious one but would the Unions vote for him?

I have no idea who Jess Phillips or Angela Rayner are.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Philips would be too polarising, I think - very outspoken about the same kind of things that Corbyn was (despite her being no fan of Corbyn and regularly calling him out). She's a very good MP, imo, but I don't think leadership material - at least not at this point in her career/in this media climate.

Starmer would be the most palatable to many, I think (and would be my choice) but I think he'd still be torn apart due to the Corbyn association and also being a firm remainer.

 

[ncurd]

Gonna be interesting to see what happens - apparently labour is pretty comfortably the biggest party (members wise) in Europe. These members repeatedly voted for Corbyn and are unlikely to vote for a Blair-esque Tory-in-Red.
Awkward situation cause in this climate a real left wing party will not be elected, however you're never going to convince the member base to go against their beliefs and vote in someone they don't believe in and don't agree with.

The membership are going to need to learn quickly like Kinnock and Blair taught them that being left won't win them anything in this country. I'm a bit mightily ducked off with them at the moment can't accept Corbyn is why they lost and we're going to be staring down the barrell of even more Tory rule in 5 years.

There's a difference between not voting for what you agree with and accepting that some slightly to the right of you isn't a ******* Tory and might be able to get some of what you want done.

This Red Tory crap has got to stop.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Aye,
Do you want centre-left or do you want a Tory government should be a no brainer.
I can understand where they're coming from - people have an idealistic view of politics and fighting for what you believe in and never cowing down etc.etc.etc. but in the real world, especially in a political system like the one we have in this country, you have to make concessions and getting some of what you want is better than getting none of what you want.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-50781341

4 other candidates, not counting RLB, and only 2 with any real potential to challenge the Tories and I would not say Thornbury is in anyway a heavyweight candidate. Sir Keir Starmer is the clear obvious one but would the Unions vote for him?

I have no idea who Jess Phillips or Angela Rayner are.

God hope Thornberry doesn't get it, she'd lose everyone. Here's to see if the Labour core fanatics can learn to put aside ideological fanaticism and embrace a bit of realpolitik. They don't need to give up everything they believe but Britain is a pretty right wing country compared to Europe and decades of propaganda have convinced huge swathes of the population that things like nationalisation are nothing more than a dictatorial commie plot that is evil and bad for the economy. People can be swayed but Labour are trying to go from 0-100 straight away.