A Political Thread pt. 2

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Oh dear....

Maybe I should be worried about twitter takeover a bit more, the idea that the right hasn't been moved at all in the past 8 years is massively wrong.

I mean it's a meme so chill out lol, but the "Conservative" bit is the same (that's the furtherst right the line goes whilst it obvs isn't the furtherst right someone can be) whereas the line is extending on the left - it's not a full range.

Regardless, it's a meme don't worry about it ffs

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I normally hate "both sides" thing, but both sides have had an increase in the number of people sitting at the extremes. However I'd argue the actions of those on the extremes are different, with those on the right being far more dangerous. The actions of those on the left can be very stupid at times but fundamentally will not affect many peoples lives. The actions of those on the right have been having a huge impact on everyone's lives. In the USA you have systematic lying, destruction of norms, banning of books, firing of teachers, culture wars (yes these are actually driven by the right), an attempt at a coup, a violent insurrection and using the government to actively suppress and oppose. It hasn't stopped either and just wait and see what happens after the next election. Here we are seeing the destruction of the NHS, us leaving the EU, turning a blind eye to criminality, the complete destruction of any sense of integrity, blind eye to corruption...

The 2 have both become more extreme but really are not comparable in the damage they are causing.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

To be honest I think of you let the modern extreme left take complete control it'd go very 'Lord of the Flies' very quickly. Better than nuclear war of course but I think the UK and US need centrist leaders to suit their societies and continue to be progressive.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Even in the rare places where the left of centre parties are in power they tolerate mass wealth inequality and tax avoidance to an extent no left leaning party would have tolerated 30 years ago. They are left wing only compared to the rightward lurching Democrats (US), Labour (UK), Socialist (France) and Social Democratic (Ger & Ita) parties of the late 90s that appeared to consider they'd be unelectable if they ever campaigned for reducing wealth inequality in a media environment owned almost exclusively by very wealthy men. So they ended up arguably being centre right on the main scale that counts for judging a political spectrum in my opinion. In the last few years the left has just had a flutter of a revival in ideological terms, but just remains seemingly unelectable in part because there are few or no media players backing their agenda.

Musk seemingly becoming a political animal is a concern to me. He is sensationally creative but a completely loose cannon who defends the right to publicly call someone a paedophile or spread complete disinformation leading to anti-democratic riots and/or public disobedience at a time of public health crisis.

It's far far more than Twitter that is causing public ignorance though, obsession with relative trivia politically and a lack of concern (sometimes joy) as a free media, rule of law and democratic norms go out the window.

 

[ncurd]

To be honest I think of you let the modern extreme left take complete control it'd go very 'Lord of the Flies' very quickly. Better than nuclear war of course but I think the UK and US need centrist leaders to suit their societies and continue to be progressive.

Its why I advocate a centre left approach to things pragmatic progressiveness. The mainstream extreme left are no different to what they always have been the only difference is in the UK we actually had them in charge of a party for a number of years so they became more prominent. Nobody is going to vote them into power just like Foot in the early 80's.

The mainstream extreme right haven't got more extreme either its just they've also gotten real power.

Its why the meme is nonsense it shows the left moving but supposedly Musk and the right not shifting at all. Reality is Musk has moved rightwards rather than anything else. Its not different to me accepting my view have drifted leftwards rather than the center really moving.

He is sensationally creative

Complete tosh, Musk is a man with capital who employee workers who are. He might put his money towards 'worthy' projects but he isn't an engineer/designer or even that much of a visionary. More a nerd who buys toys of stuff he's interested the major difference between myself and him is I have to make do with a Lego Saturn V Rocket and Kerbel Space Program.

 

[ncurd]

More evidence from the Mail today that the printed press need further regulation.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

More evidence from the Mail today that the printed press need further regulation.

Yes, the press must only print approved stories that I personally like and believe are true!

 

[ncurd]

Yes, the press must only print approved stories that I personally like and believe are true!

Or not print provable lies...

 

[ncurd]

Sorry actually forgot you don't actually care about the truth or any actually objectiveness but just being a troll.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

The whole political spectrum has changed so much in the last 10 years.
Hard to really single things out anymore.

It shows how different the spectrum is just by country, America Healthcare = socalism, anywhere else it's basically agreed centre position nearly.
and as with most things time changes the setting of what is viewed as centre.
What was considered centre in the 1960's would have been considered right in the 1970's, what was centre in the 1980's would've been considered right in the 1990's so and so only reason it's so polarising now is because of the internet and social media on both sides exploding.

Also let's be real is Elon really center? lol
Is it in any capacity possible for the richest man alive to be in the middle?
I'm not even really a Elon hater I like the fact he's invested so much in proper space exploration. But the guy is filthy rich and still complains about taxes.

 

[ncurd]

I'm not even really a Elon hater I like the fact he's invested so much in proper space exploration. But the guy is filthy rich and still complains about taxes.

I don't really hate the guy I think both Tesla and SpaceX are great. I just dislike the benevolent capitalist/inspiring visionary myth that people have built up around him.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I don't really hate the guy I think both Tesla and SpaceX are great. I just dislike the benevolent capitalist/inspiring visionary myth that people have built up around him.

Yeh the guy came from a rich household, yet is called self made billionaire (which in itself imo is physically possible regardless)

 

[Gavin]

UK ports consider legal action after Rees-Mogg delays Brexit controls | Brexit | The Guardian

Companies fear millions wasted on hurriedly built infrastructure as minister delays import checks for fourth time

amp.theguardian.com

Some of Britain's biggest seaports are considering legal action against the government to recover the costs of building border control posts they fear will never be used, after confirmation that post-Brexit import checks will be delayed for a fourth time.

While the EU introduced checks on goods arriving from the UK immediately after Brexit, ministers are now targeting the end of 2023 for a new border control regime, three years after the end of the Brexit transition period. Checks on meat were due to start on 1 July and on dairy on 1 September, with all remaining goods including fish and composite foods to be subject to checks from 1 November. A date for controls on live animals has yet to be agreed.

This is quite incredible.

So since January 2021 EU businesses have had a competitive advantage over GB businesses (not NI obviously) and this is set to continue until potentially the end of 2023.

GB goods entering the EU have had full customs checks but EU goods entering GB haven't.

So much for taking back control, but the reality is the UK doesn't have the facilities or staff to complete full customs checks



Brexit checks an act of self harm says the Brexit minister for opportunities

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Couldn't make it up...

"Brexit is great, but it would be absurd to abandon free trade and impose checks, which we said wouldn't cause any problems anyway!"

The mental gymnastics of trying to pretend they are "saving" money by maintaining the status quo and not doing something actively harmful is ridiculous.

 

[Reiser99]

So is this checks just on the British side, not the E.U or all checks?

Edit: Also what does this currently mean for checks in N.I?

 

[General Melchett]

I dread to think how much money Rees-Mogg's investment firm has made since he became a minister. He's clearly privy to inside information and is in it for the dough. He even relocated their head office to Ireland after Brexit. So much for global Britain. You couldn't make it up.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I dread to think how much money Rees-Mogg's investment firm has made since he became a minister. He's clearly privy to inside information and is in it for the dough. He even relocated their head office to Ireland after Brexit. So much for global Britain. You couldn't make it up.

There was a report before the Brexit vote that was looking at the biggest pushers of Brexit (Farage, Mogg and various business people) and it showed that pretty much everyone who was touting what a success Brexit would be was actually investing on the assumption it would be a failure. Essentially these people did not think it would benefit the country but thought they could profit off it going wrong.

 

[General Melchett]

There was a report before the Brexit vote that was looking at the biggest pushers of Brexit (Farage, Mogg and various business people) and it showed that pretty much everyone who was touting what a success Brexit would be was actually investing on the assumption it would be a failure. Essentially these people did not think it would benefit the country but thought they could profit off it going wrong.

I can well believe that. There were also reports that Boris was shellshocked that Leave won the referendum. He was just using the campaign to boost his own political capital within the Tory party and position himself to take over after Cameron.

I think Farage applied for an EU passport straight after the vote. His wife is German and so he probably gained German citizenship though her.

National interest my arse

 

[Gavin]

So is this checks just on the British side, not the E.U or all checks?

Edit: Also what does this currently mean for checks in N.I?

This is just checks on the British side. The EU have been implementing full customs controls since January 2021 for GB to EU traffic.

Issue is that there's a requirement by the WTO that you must treat all countries equally unless you have a specific treaty, so arguably countries which are also considered 3rd countries could take the UK to court because they are implementing customs controls for their imports.

For Northern Ireland there are no customs checks from NI to GB but still customs checks from GB to NI as we align with the EU and it's a requirement of the NI Protocol

 

[Reiser99]

This is just checks on the British side. The EU have been implementing full customs controls since January 2021 for GB to EU traffic.

Issue is that there's a requirement by the WTO that you must treat all countries equally unless you have a specific treaty, so arguably countries which are also considered 3rd countries could take the UK to court because they are implementing customs controls for their imports.

For Northern Ireland there are no customs checks from NI to GB but still customs checks from GB to NI as we align with the EU and it's a requirement of the NI Protocol

Cheers, so basically if you import you're saving money, if you export you're screwed.