A Political Thread pt. 2

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Complete tosh, Musk is a man with capital who employee workers who are. He might put his money towards 'worthy' projects but he isn't an engineer/designer or even that much of a visionary. More a nerd who buys toys of stuff he's interested the major difference between myself and him is I have to make do with a Lego Saturn V Rocket and Kerbel Space Program.

You are talking about the guy whose leadership led to:

i) destroying legacy car makers by accelerating the transition to high quality EVs that routinely win 'car of the year' awards (a 5 year old Tesla is still technically superior in every way to any EV made outside of China)

ii) overtaking NASA (and all other state actors) in the realm of rocket science, to create re-usable, self landing rocket parts (something 5 years later still nobody has been able to replicate)

iii) produced a giant battery farm in South Australia providing the worlds first example of how it will be entirely possible for humanity to have a stable power grid without fossil fuels or nuclear (assuming average power consumption levels don't go mad with something like Bitcoin).

That is three different companies and three completely distinct achievements led by the same man. If he isnt 'incredibly creative' then there is literally not a single human being that meets that criteria. How can that be called "complete tosh"?

I've not even mentioned self driving cars (which may end car ownership across vast swathes of the world) or solar panelled roof tiles or whatever he is doing with brain implants or his intentions towards Mars or his broadband/phone service in Earth's orbit. I wouldn't rule out any of those becoming civilisation changing developments but those are all at earlier stages of development.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Sorry actually forgot you don't actually care about the truth or any actually objectiveness but just being a troll.

I really don't go to the mail for objectivity, or expect it from them. Honestly I don't go to any singular news outlet for objectivity because you're not going to find it.

We know freedom of speech isn't something we agree on tho so ig that's that

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Did he do any of that though?
He's a lot freer with his money in terms of investing in things he's interested in, so seeding innovation, but in terms of actual contributions he's nothing but a chequebook and a public face

We're not talking about a Bill Gates or a Steve Wozniak here

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

he's clearly real good at hiring people to follow through with his idea. That isn't a common skill or every Silicon Valley bro who can sweet talk their way into some start up cash would be a multi-billionaire by now. He doesn't have the greatest all around skillset or all the wires in his brain, but he does have some skills.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Musk does have the vision to back innovative ideas but he is not the creator of them. Apparently Space X development worked very different to NASA in that they intentionally went out of their way to test things to destruction, figuring the short term costs would lead to taking greater risks but potentially get greater rewards.

He is first and foremost a businessman and salesman.

 

[ncurd]

Did he do any of that though?
He's a lot freer with his money in terms of investing in things he's interested in, so seeding innovation, but in terms of actual contributions he's nothing but a chequebook and a public face

We're not talking about a Bill Gates or a Steve Wozniak here

He's not even a Mark Zuckerberg.

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

I'd take musk over Zuckerberg every day of the week. Zuck definitely had more to do with the actual technical side of his company but he has been a huge contribution to descent of discourse in society.

 

[ncurd]

Did he do any of that though?
He's a lot freer with his money in terms of investing in things he's interested in, so seeding innovation, but in terms of actual contributions he's nothing but a chequebook and a public face

We're not talking about a Bill Gates or a Steve Wozniak here

Tesla he bought and there's not much evidence that the reusable rockets were his idea. Sure he's put he's put the investment in but thats a guy with seed money. Not actual you know innovation.

.If he isnt 'incredibly creative' then there is literally not a single human being that meets that criteria.

Yup one of the absolute complete myths of the engineering world or literally any creative endeavour. That anyone has the singular vision and isn't actually just an increment on the work of those done have been before.

I'd take musk over Zuckerberg every day of the week. Zuck definitely had more to do with the actual technical side of his company but he has been a huge contribution to descent of discourse in society.

That's a diffrent conversation.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

he has been a huge contribution to descent of discourse in society

Just wait until Musk's twitter buyout is finalised

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

Just wait until Musk's twitter buyout is finalised

I'll be impressed if twitter gets worse. I got off of it in Winter 2020 and it's done wonders for my mental health. Listening to podcasts and reading the news is much better than scrolling through tweets from people who read the same thing as me and regurgitate it but in an angry tone.

 

[ncurd]

It should also be noted despite lofty misty eyed views of the space race space exploration has pretty much always done by private companies in the USA. The Comman Module was built be essentially Rockwell, the Saturn V stage II as well, Douglas and Boeing built the other stages. The LEM was designed and built Grumman.

SpaceX is just another one of these companies.

 

[Reiser99]

there's not much evidence that the reusable rockets were his idea.

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

It should also be noted despite lofty misty eyed views of the space race space exploration has pretty much always done by private companies in the USA. The Comman Module was built be essentially Rockwell, the Saturn V stage II as well, Douglas and Boeing built the other stages. The LEM was designed and built Grumman.

SpaceX is just another one of these companies.

people, rightly or wrongly, I think draw a line based on the fact that prior space exploration was financed and organized by the government. Hiring private firms was just the prudent thing to do.

The billionaire race to space really just reminds me that we need to raise taxes on these fools.

 

[Reiser99]

WTF is up with Conservatives in the wrong refusing to admit it and say they will wait for the conclusions of the investigation.

Either you did it or you didn't and since you supposedly referred yourself for investigation (after it hit the news and there were complaints I assume) and you haven't denied it, then it's true. Why waste tax payers money unless like your leader you have no moral compass whatsoever.

 

[ncurd]

people, rightly or wrongly, I think draw a line based on the fact that prior space exploration was financed and organized by the government. Hiring private firms was just the prudent thing to do.

The billionaire race to space really just reminds me that we need to raise taxes on these fools.

But that's the odd thing SpaceX has gone down the old traditional route which is probably why they've actually been successful unlike Bezos and Branson. Essentially they are subcontracting for NASA.

Again none of those is a bad thing just not Musk is some sort of visionary inventor. The company I work for has manufactured complex equipment for every space mission NASA have done. We don't hail our CEO as the guy who led us towards it and he speaks far more about enabling engineers to do the real work.

 

[The Seeker]

 

[General Melchett]

The Tory MP caught watching porn in the House of Commons is claiming he opened the file by mistake. No rules were broken. Nobody told him it was porn. This is what happens when you have a leader with no moral authority who tries to lie his way out of everything.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

To describe self landing rocket component parts (onto moving seabound platforms no less) as 'incremental change' is certainly a perspective. Plus Musk should not be lumped in with Bezos and Branson (who have zero noble intent in anything they do).

Does it not strike anyone that Musk's success rate across such diverse areas (unprecedented probably since Michaelangelo) may suggest incredible creativity in project management as well as bringing commercially 'impossible' concepts to fruition?

As for Zuckerberg. MySpace was created a year before Facebook. So there is no comparison in terms of innovation.

I think Musk is a complete tool on a personal level and/or has an unusual mind. Plus I am frankly dismayed that he is squandering billions that could have gone onto some of his more noble endeavours onto some crap like Twitter, that will arguably be changed in a way that undermines his less popular (but essential projects). Good luck getting US government funding for any environment improving tech or trips to Mars when Twitter becomes even more filled with the climate change deniers and nuking hurricanes brigade.

I'll be impressed if twitter gets worse. I got off of it in Winter 2020 and it's done wonders for my mental health. Listening to podcasts and reading the news is much better than scrolling through tweets from people who read the same thing as me and regurgitate it but in an angry tone.

I've never really done social media (unless specialised and thankfully moderated forums count), but I'd recommend the same regarding 24hr news of almost every hue. Possibly for any TV news. You learn nothing you won't learn much more quickly and effectively from skimming news website of different nations and political perspectives. Plus everything you do watch will be laced with emotive nonsense to keep you 'hooked' and manipulated. I can remember 20 years ago becoming irate at being subjected to the changing face of BBC 'news'. Ground zero for 'news as entertainment' in the UK rather than public service and the dawn of an ungodly age of misinformation. I've not felt like punching the telly once since then.

 

[ncurd]

To describe self landing rocket component parts (onto moving seabound platforms no less) as 'incremental change' is certainly a perspective. Plus Musk should not be lumped in with Bezos and Branson (who have zero noble intent in anything they do).

Does it not strike anyone that Musk's success rate across such diverse areas (unprecedented probably since Michaelangelo) may suggest incredible creativity in project management as well as bringing commercially 'impossible' concepts to fruition?

On point 2 yes he put his money in good places he's also shown to put his trust in people to do that work.

However point 1 goes to show how little the real world has of knowledge of how tgese thing actually go. Reusable rockets have long been a thing to strive towards due to the cost of rockets its not a new idea in the slightest. Musk didn't come up with the way the rockets work at most (and we don't even know this) all he did was push a load of cash and say 'make it work', then some actual person (probably actually a team its never a singular person) with real vision actually does the work probably something they've been working on for years in their heads but nobody actually backed them with capital.

And that's what Musk is a financeer who appears willing to put his money into great projects. He seams to be able sniff reality with bullshitters pretty well. And that's also a great skill.

But Musk isn't the visionary it's the people he employs.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

On point 2 yes he put his money in good places he's also shown to put his trust in people to do that work.

However point 1 goes to show how little the real world has of knowledge of how tgese thing actually go. Reusable rockets have long been a thing to strive towards due to the cost of rockets its not a new idea in the slightest. Musk didn't come up with the way the rockets work at most (and we don't even know this) all he did was push a load of cash and say 'make it work', then some actual person (probably actually a team its never a singular person) with real vision actually does the work probably something they've been working on for years in their heads but nobody actually backed them with capital.

And that's what Musk is a financeer who appears willing to put his money into great projects. He seams to be able sniff reality with bullshitters pretty well. And that's also a great skill.

But Musk isn't the visionary it's the people he employs.

We can agree to disagree on what constitutes a idea. Transporter beams have been thought of since Star Trek, but if they are ever created it will be a feat of creativity. Entire state run rocket propulsion projects with budgets far beyond Musks couldn't achieve reusable rocket parts.

I think I've articulated my side of the argument as well as can be done in terms of the breadth of his achievements and the fact people who throw far more money at the identical projects (such as Bezos and legacy car manufacturers) cannot get close to what Musks projects were achieving years ago despite these achievements seemingly being mere trifles in your opinion (and the fact he even discloses some IP publicly as he did with EVs still doesn't let others catch up (outside of China)).

I didnt know he'd made his millions as co-founder of PayPal. Some incredibly plain and uncreative folk just have all the luck I guess.

How Elon Musk Became A Billionaire Twice Over

Elon Musk is now worth $2 billion. Image by Getty Images via @daylife New billionaire Elon Musk has made big bets in a trio of risky industries. His portfolio of companies practically reads like the set-up to a contrarian joke. He's in electric cars, solar power, and space rockets-- sectors...

www.forbes.com