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3rd TEST: South Africa v Lions

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thingimubob @ Jul 6 2009, 04:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheBokke @ Jul 5 2009, 02:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Teh Mite @ Jul 6 2009, 01:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Get real. You think he's the only player to ever suffer the citing officer getting it wrong?[/b]


No but if they feel that they would like to make a statement on the issue they felt was unjust so be it. They were sticking up for their team mate nothing wrong with that.

[/b][/quote]

I'm sure the Lions players feel it's unjust that Burger only got 8 weeks (as a fan I certainly do), didn;t see any armbands on them.
[/b][/quote]

Yes he was lucky. I will not defend the guy. As I have state already the armband was a protest at the citing process not the Lions.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bristol-iain @ Jul 5 2009, 07:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheBokke @ Jul 5 2009, 07:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Teh Mite @ Jul 6 2009, 01:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Showing such public dissent is tantamount to bringing the game into disrepute and smacks of a ponceball mentality. Then again, I don't think I've ever seen ponceballers stoop that low. Remember - Soccer's the game where you can get sent off in the first minute.[/b]

Calling football players ponceballers makes me think that your mentality in accessing other peoples sports is a little flawed. I do however agree to some extent that it was a little OTT but they felt very strongly about it and wanted to show strong support for their team mate. It was not directed at the Lions or any player but more at the inconsistent citing process that is currently in place.

If it does serve to improve the process then everyone benefits.
[/b][/quote]

But isn't that, in effect, showing obvious dissent towards the officials.
[/b][/quote]


*cough*
Ballack.elmundo.jpg

KeaneReferee_468x402.jpg


Where exactly does the line get drawn?

No matter which way the De Villers mafia try to paint it, that was NOT the way to go about combating the inconsistancies of the citing board.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bristol-iain @ Jul 6 2009, 06:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheBokke @ Jul 5 2009, 07:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Teh Mite @ Jul 6 2009, 01:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Showing such public dissent is tantamount to bringing the game into disrepute and smacks of a ponceball mentality. Then again, I don't think I've ever seen ponceballers stoop that low. Remember - Soccer's the game where you can get sent off in the first minute.[/b]

Calling football players ponceballers makes me think that your mentality in accessing other peoples sports is a little flawed. I do however agree to some extent that it was a little OTT but they felt very strongly about it and wanted to show strong support for their team mate. It was not directed at the Lions or any player but more at the inconsistent citing process that is currently in place.

If it does serve to improve the process then everyone benefits.
[/b][/quote]

But isn't that, in effect, showing obvious dissent towards the officials.
[/b][/quote]

Yes is does. I am sure the Boks knew that they face that risk but decided to go ahead with it and risk the punishment if it did bring attention to the current inconsistencies in the process. I sort of agree & disagree with it in some respects.


Man you guys real feel like beating on the Boks at the moment :lol: . Did they really do that much wrong during the whole series other than win it?
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Teh Mite @ Jul 6 2009, 06:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bristol-iain @ Jul 5 2009, 07:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheBokke @ Jul 5 2009, 07:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Teh Mite @ Jul 6 2009, 01:18 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Showing such public dissent is tantamount to bringing the game into disrepute and smacks of a ponceball mentality. Then again, I don't think I've ever seen ponceballers stoop that low. Remember - Soccer's the game where you can get sent off in the first minute.[/b]

Calling football players ponceballers makes me think that your mentality in accessing other peoples sports is a little flawed. I do however agree to some extent that it was a little OTT but they felt very strongly about it and wanted to show strong support for their team mate. It was not directed at the Lions or any player but more at the inconsistent citing process that is currently in place.

If it does serve to improve the process then everyone benefits.
[/b][/quote]

But isn't that, in effect, showing obvious dissent towards the officials.
[/b][/quote]


*cough*
Ballack.elmundo.jpg

KeaneReferee_468x402.jpg


Where exactly does the line get drawn?

No matter which way the De Villers mafia try to paint it, that was NOT the way to go about combating the inconsistancies of the citing board.
[/b][/quote]

Man you should really get that cough checked out you might have swine flu :lol: As I stated they were a bit OTT with the protest. Speaking of swine flu four of my mates came back from a rugby tour in Spain and are currently Quarantined at home with the virus.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Logorrhea @ Jul 5 2009, 06:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Personally im sick to death of all the Bok posters effectivey begging to be recognised as the greatest team to walk the planet in every post. Insisting that we recognise fairy average players as the ebst in the word when they are cleary ............... average.[/b]

Funny this, as it is EXACTLY what you guys are doing. But hey, if the best players from 4 countries get beaten in a series by a bunch of average players, then i guess rugby is just played by a bunch of average players.

Anyway, we DO have some ridiculously average players. Some are below average to be honest. What we do well though, is work as a team. The core of our 2004 team is still with us, and that makes us a pretty good team.

We have the potential of being the best team in the world. Average players and all. All we need is a proper coach, and proper selection criteria.

My point was this:

I said that we lost because of the fact that we were just way worse than you guys on the day. Outplayed in every department. I didn't sit here and post:

"What if Zane Kirchner had not butchered that try? Monye was offside with that interception. That WAS a try. **** TMO call." Scrums were dodgy etc etc etc."

I was just saying that that is the case whenever you guys lose. I do realise though that not all of you are like that, and many of you are completely fair in your analysing of the games. Hey, we are all fans, and are always bias.

I was wrong though, to generalize like i did, and that was completely out of line from my part. Also, i apologize if i was venting some personal attacks on people. I don't want to get funny with anyone, and perhaps that post was a little emotional on my side. So i am sorry about that, and will cool it down a bit.



Anyway, did we wear those armbands because of the ban Bakkies received? If we did, then South African rugby has stooped to a new low.
 
Yeah it was "Justice 4" as in number 4. John Smit came up with the idea and PdV, while dancing with his troop of Sea Lions while wearing a Barney the Dinosaur costume (part of the team's pre-match preparations apparently) agreed wholeheartedly..
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>
So a British & Irish Lions tour has come and gone and at least this time there won’t be any British journalists butting me on the head while muttering over and over again ‘We did you, we did you’, as happened on this night 12 years ago.

Instead I had to listen to former Lions scrumhalf Matt Dawson, who was on a BBC radio programme I took part in, telling the people of the United Kingdom that the Springbok coach was ‘absolutely bonkers’, ‘unbelievable’ and a ‘discredit to the game’.

And then afterwards, in the final Test, the Lions scored the most emphatic victory of the series.

So yep, you have probably figured it out - I am not sure how I feel.

It was ‘us’ who did them this time, but pretty much the same way as they did us 12 years ago - by exploiting some quite weak selection and strategy decisions from the opposing coach.

Had Ian McGeechan got his selections right for Durban, the Lions would probably have won this series 3-0, and the Boks would have been made to pay a much bigger price than just embarrassment for the fault-lines that are appearing under Peter De Villiers.

The Bok coach has been a severe embarrassment to the country, and those who argue in his favour on the basis of his results are either just not close enough to the team to know what is really going on, or they are wilfully ignoring the facts.

The fact is that De Villiers inherited a World Cup winning team held together by a core of individuals who rank among the most experienced rugby players in the world.

They played against a Lions team that, apart from being poorly selected first up, struggled to come to terms with the challenges posed to the Lions concept in the professional era, when provincial games are no longer proper examinations and there are not really enough of them to get the combinations to groove.

The Lions were hammered 3-0 in New Zealand in 2005, with not one of those games being close, and considering the scarcity of world-class players in the Lions unit, the Boks should have expected something similar.

There are probably a few reasons why this was not the case, and credit must be given to the Lions for the way they fought, but I am inclined to agree with Eddie Jones, who in a London newspaper column described the Boks as a team that looks under-coached.

Yes, the Boks were winning until yesterday, but how much has De Villiers had to do with those victories?

For those who know what is going on within the camp, it will not be news that the players are running the team. It is one of the reasons why they seem on their way to regaining their reputation for indiscipline.

You really can’t allow the inmates to run the prison indefinitely without there being some kind of drawback.


John Smit is taking a great deal on his plate at the moment, and his captaincy last week, the way he kept his players calm when the mortars were falling all around them in that first hour, played a big part in the way the Boks were able to win it in the final minutes.

But how much longer can Smit and his lieutenants Victor Matfield and Fourie du Preez keep the Boks together?

Yesterday the cracks were clearly becoming evident, and the Boks have got progressively worse during the series.

It is when the experienced players go that the Boks are going to need a coach. Is De Villiers the right man to take the Boks to 2011?

I don’t believe he is. His record might look impressive, but there is a big difference between a successful coach and a good coach.


Former Australian cricket coach John Buchanan was an example of a successful coach. The Australian team he was in charge of for several years was brimful of experienced, talented players - all of them world class.

Buchanan’s team picked up trophies and dominated the Test game. But Shane Warne had doubts over Buchanan’s credentials as a coach, and he was vindicated once Buchanan was no longer coaching a team of super-stars. His performance in the recent IPL was so poor that he has now been sacked.

They used to say about Kitch Christie - ‘the right man at the right time’.

It may be that De Villiers will be remembered as ‘the wrong coach at the right time’, meaning that if ever there was a time when a flaky coach could be carried, it is now, when the team has been playing together for so long and has such a long established winning habit.

Unfortunately that means they probably won’t kick onto the level where they should kick onto, and while the coach may, at the moment, be able to get away with having minor input to strategy, that won’t be the case forever.

When the experienced players move on or retire, and inexperienced players become more prevalent in the team, the Boks are going to need a coach.

In fact, they need one now.
[/b]

http://www.keo.co.za/2009/07/05/boks-need-a-coach/

This pretty much sums up our entire situation. I'm looking forward to some MASSIVE losses in the Tri-Nations if this carries on.
 
Interesting read.

My take is that PDV should be given credit for the two set move tries in the second test. Or was it the old heads on the field who cooked that up?

But the best teams can keep a rhythm going in every department, especially in defence, and don't have to rely on set moves. Aus 99 were the best I've seen. ABs 07 looked like they had it, until they got unlucky with injuries and were left without a leader at 10. SA 07 had that potential, but they never needed to rip it up and show how good they were.

At the moment SA have a vulnerable front row and a real lack of ideas in the midfield, in defence and attack. The Lions broke through a ridiculous amount of times in the first test, then that was tightened up for the second, but it still looks chaotic, without rhythm. Hard to see how SA can improve with the current players.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (shtove @ Jul 5 2009, 09:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
But the best teams can keep a rhythm going in every department, especially in defence, and don't have to rely on set moves. Aus 99 were the best I've seen. ABs 07 looked like they had it, until they got unlucky with injuries and were left without a leader at 10. SA 07 had that potential, but they never needed to rip it up and show how good they were.[/b]

Yes they did, against Fiji when their defence was in sixes and sevens and John Smit had to layeth the smacketh down on Pietersen, Steyn and Montgomery and tell them to calm the hell down because they were panicking in the face of Fiji's tactic of playing Sevens rugby on steroids.

South Africa vs Fiji was the Bok's "England vs Samoa 2003" moment, the point where the wheels so very almost fell off in spectacular fashion. It was utter class to come back and grab control of the game in the latter stages and set the stage for their World Cup win but boy did they have to rip it up to get there though!
 
So if De Villiers were to go (highly unlikely as long as the Boks don't get massacred in the 3N) wh would be the man to step in and replace him?
 
Very good posts of late, I was a bit hotheaded the other night and said a few things I should not have said, soz for the Ireland supporter I insulted, Brian O'Driscoll is an awesome player. <3 Ireland, planning to go there soon, I would love to see the country.

Now the coach... Heynecke Meyer? (spelling sorry) I don't know if hes still around though.

He would have been the coach instead of PdV but they played the race card.
 
The Guy who was at Leicester? I heard they were expecting big things out of him yeah. Didn't he return to SA due to family reasons?





Oh all this reminds me I have to completely De-Lions my profile. Time to hop off that bandwagon and back onto the other one.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (shtove @ Jul 5 2009, 11:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Hard to see how SA can improve with the current players.[/b]

If the players were the problem, A South African team would not have won the Super 14. Not one Australian team made the Semi Finals of the tournament, yet everybody is tipping them to win the Tri-Nations. What does that tell you??? Robbie Deans...

We have the players. We just don't have the right coach. PdV is an idiot, and just can't be taken seriously by anyone. All of those off the field moments of his has an incredible impact on the team. They know what's going on, and are stuck in the middle of it.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jer1cho @ Jul 6 2009, 06:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (shtove @ Jul 5 2009, 11:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hard to see how SA can improve with the current players.[/b]

If the players were the problem, A South African team would not have won the Super 14. Not one Australian team made the Semi Finals of the tournament, yet everybody is tipping them to win the Tri-Nations. What does that tell you??? Robbie Deans...

We have the players. We just don't have the right coach. PdV is an idiot, and just can't be taken seriously by anyone. All of those off the field moments of his has an incredible impact on the team. They know what's going on, and are stuck in the middle of it.
[/b][/quote]
Have to agree with Jericho here. Thing is PdV took over a good team with excellent players what has he really done to improve the Boks? He is an idiot and his coaching credentials are thin to say the least. The Boks are going down the same road they did when Rudolph Staueli coached them only difference is back then the guys weren't so experienced and mature as they are now otherwise we would have lost the Lions series.

The time is nearing for SA Rugby to get rid of this political puppet, we also need a new forwards coach really who the hell is Gary Gold? He helped coached WP/Stormers with their feeble forwards.
 
As a few have said, those Justice "4" bands were just another stupid move by a side that has become increasingly hated over the course of the Series.

What pains me is that the Lions missed a massive opportunity to actually beat the Boks again. We can have all the penalty incidents, poor decisions etc the fact is ultimately the Lions lost the Series 2-1. Thats hard to take, but well done South Africa.
 
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