B
Bullitt
Guest
Yet they still get beat more often then not! :lol:
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F
feicarsinn
Guest
Well they aren't the ones scoring them
S
shazbooger
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jer1cho @ Jul 6 2009, 06:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Totally agree there. Look at the effect Kidney had on the Irish setup, Gatland on the Welsh.
Totally agree there. Look at the effect Kidney had on the Irish setup, Gatland on the Welsh.
M
monkeypigeon
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Logorrhea @ Jul 6 2009, 10:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Totally agree there. Look at the effect Kidney had on the Irish setup, Gatland on the Welsh.
[/b][/quote]
"We have got a new template now for preparing for a Test match which includes quite a lot of alcohol early in the week!" - Ian McGeechan.
Just shows the massive difference between the Geech aproach compared to the dryballs approach of the Clive.
Totally agree there. Look at the effect Kidney had on the Irish setup, Gatland on the Welsh.
[/b][/quote]
"We have got a new template now for preparing for a Test match which includes quite a lot of alcohol early in the week!" - Ian McGeechan.
Just shows the massive difference between the Geech aproach compared to the dryballs approach of the Clive.
K
KZNSharksFan
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (sean43 @ Jul 6 2009, 08:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
:huh:
Why are they becoming "increasingly hated"? Burger makes a massive individual mistake (and no he's never, up until now been intentionally dirty) and "everyone" hates South Africa. The British media is not "everyone", neither are the British fans who so often believe the copious bull**** coming from the media.
:huh:
Why are they becoming "increasingly hated"? Burger makes a massive individual mistake (and no he's never, up until now been intentionally dirty) and "everyone" hates South Africa. The British media is not "everyone", neither are the British fans who so often believe the copious bull**** coming from the media.
M
monkeypigeon
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KZNSharksFan @ Jul 6 2009, 02:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
:huh:
Why are they becoming "increasingly hated"? Burger makes a massive individual mistake (and no he's never, up until now been intentionally dirty) and "everyone" hates South Africa. The British media is not "everyone", neither are the British fans who so often believe the copious bull**** coming from the media.
[/b][/quote]
Yeah, I'm starting to get a bit peeved by all the exageration going on since the Burger incident.
If one Welsh player acts the eegit then suddenly 'every Welsh player and person is an arrogant *******', an Irish player complains about a ref decision after the match then 'every irish player and person is a sore loser' and when the South Africans wear their armbands (which I agree was a bit over the top) and one or two people think it was a good idea then suddenly all south Africans are 'a load of pot-stirrers who need to be shot'.
Especially considering that we all know how much the media (everywhere in the world) have mastered the art of misquoting, asking loaded questions and blowing things out of proportion.
:huh:
Why are they becoming "increasingly hated"? Burger makes a massive individual mistake (and no he's never, up until now been intentionally dirty) and "everyone" hates South Africa. The British media is not "everyone", neither are the British fans who so often believe the copious bull**** coming from the media.
[/b][/quote]
Yeah, I'm starting to get a bit peeved by all the exageration going on since the Burger incident.
If one Welsh player acts the eegit then suddenly 'every Welsh player and person is an arrogant *******', an Irish player complains about a ref decision after the match then 'every irish player and person is a sore loser' and when the South Africans wear their armbands (which I agree was a bit over the top) and one or two people think it was a good idea then suddenly all south Africans are 'a load of pot-stirrers who need to be shot'.
Especially considering that we all know how much the media (everywhere in the world) have mastered the art of misquoting, asking loaded questions and blowing things out of proportion.
K
KZNSharksFan
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (sean43 @ Jul 6 2009, 08:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
:huh:
Why are they becoming "increasingly hated"? Burger makes a massive individual mistake (and no he's never, up until now been intentionally dirty) and "everyone" hates South Africa. The British media is not "everyone", neither are the British fans who so often believe the copious bull**** coming from the media.
Why does every fu***** series on this forum between a nation from the UK and a SH side degenerate into mindless, pathetic mudslinging? It has honestly ruined a lot of rugby for me and tainted my opinion of UK fans and UK sides. I used to support England in sport, now i hate the pricks. I know it goes both ways, but in many occasions it is WUM (as you call them) charading as knowledgable supporters who start the crap.
Lets appreciate the rugby. Well done lions. Boks were outplayed in this game. It was clear who wanted it more.
:huh:
Why are they becoming "increasingly hated"? Burger makes a massive individual mistake (and no he's never, up until now been intentionally dirty) and "everyone" hates South Africa. The British media is not "everyone", neither are the British fans who so often believe the copious bull**** coming from the media.
Why does every fu***** series on this forum between a nation from the UK and a SH side degenerate into mindless, pathetic mudslinging? It has honestly ruined a lot of rugby for me and tainted my opinion of UK fans and UK sides. I used to support England in sport, now i hate the pricks. I know it goes both ways, but in many occasions it is WUM (as you call them) charading as knowledgable supporters who start the crap.
Lets appreciate the rugby. Well done lions. Boks were outplayed in this game. It was clear who wanted it more.
F
feicarsinn
Guest
I still like South Africa. 
just not their manager
or that burger guy. But the rest are fine. Great players to boot
just not their manager
or that burger guy. But the rest are fine. Great players to boot
J
Jer Mac
Guest
Hey all, I have been reading many comments all through the series and being honest found it unbelievably enjoyable to read when i was supposed to be working!!! there are some characters in here and i will miss it when it dies down..
However I would like to say a few things on the series as a whole.. I read practically every newspaper and the chances the lions were given pre-tour, especially by the English media were slim.. to come within 10-20 points of the boks would be an achievement..to go out there and loose just two matches from 10 and really compete to a degree where they could've won the series was enough for me for now..forget the bitterness..
On the Lions themselves:
I felt they played a brand of rugby that does not reflect the standard or type adopted in the 6N, which is slow, mundane and well inferior to the stuff played in the 3N at times.
For me the back play has been the best we have seen in 10 years or more, since the boot became the soul destroyer of the running man.. i was thrilled to see guys like Bowe, Earls, Moyne, Robberts, Kearney and O'Driscoll attack to cross the gain line at will and encouraged to do so.. As a avid fan of the game, ive watched as the magic of the broken field runner deteriorated at a rapid pace and feel slightly optimistic that this game as we know it may change for the better after this tour!! Being a Irish man i must applaud Rob Kearney. He was my player of the tour.. The springboks bombed him with eveything they had and he rose to the challenge with world class qualities and i challenge a man to pick a better fullback in world rugby at the moment.. I feel we have seen the last of O'Driscoll in a red shirt.. At 34, Australia would be a leap to far for the great man but he can feel proud that he is rightly being credited as possibly the greatest centre of the proffesional game.. Jamie Robberts is going to riddle defenses for years to come and some certain media critics, ie Stuart Barnes writing that the lions lacked an X-Factor by ommitting Cipriani et al recieved a nice lump of egg on his puss!!!!
Jones was rightly number 1 at number 10!!!!!!! I wish O'Gara didnt travel..he makes me nervous at the best of times and i know something bad was around the corner when he came on in the second test..he is a fine player for munster, ok for ireland but imo was never a world class operator, the man cant tackle and is suseptibale to oppostion taunts: note Argentina last autumn and some games in this series!!! it shows the lack of real class no 10s in the NH at the moment..Wilkinson has been some loss to the game.. All that said the lions back play was utterly superior to anything the springboks could produce and i feel the honest South African would admit this.. it is not because NH is better than SH or anything, its that tradionally South Africa dont produce the tidy smarts or nous behind the scrum, they are great from a set piece etc and Habana kills with the intercept but compared to their Aussie and New Zealand colleagues they are well lacking in midfield!
For me the forward unit punched away above their weight, but unfortuntately it was not enough at vital stages and they gave away too much ground to a superior force in the boks..they tackle lower and clear out harder and faster and it was there the series for me was truly lost.. the boks were clinical in most forward exchanges and i felt the decision to omit a natural leader like Ryan Jones was costly..(even though his from wasnt hectic.. you cant buy leadership)Bar O'Connel and subsequently a dropped Simon Shaw the Lions showed little leadership..How can Vickery lead when he was being creamed by the beast.. I think for all David Wallaces worth as a ball carrier, Martyn Williams smarts and footballing brian allied with lethal leadership qualities should have been playing.. Skalk Burger was the reason why the second test was such a contest, firstly due to the stupid sin bin, but mainly due to the fact the a new world force in poaching remained on the bench..to me Brussow was Krytonite to the Lions..his impact was frightening and Martyn Williams was needed to couteract him..i do not rate Warren Gatland and it was to be seen by the forward selections of Vickery and replacing one of the props with AW Jones when Williams should have been introduced to slow the resurgent Boks at the time.. All that said i feel certain players competed well with the best pack in the game, (by a considerable distance if they loose their arrogance)
Jamie Heaslip looks to be growing in stature, Ferris i believe will rock the rugby world in time while O'Connell is not the ultimate lock but not far from it either..it annoys me when people question his captaincy and worse his position... who else could you put in there to lead and carry like him... Croft is a bit or a mirage for me and only for the injury to Ferris would've seen time from the bench..Shaw is some man for one man it has to be said..bar the wrecklessness on Du preez, he was constant..I think the gaps in standards arent so significant but the springbok pack thinking animals, this cannot ever be under-estimated. the aggression and physicality are simply letahal...
All in all they can learn alot for SA in this department, they showed all tour why they are a force in world rugby with the speed strength and technique at the breakdown.. it was a joy to look at, at times..
To the Springboks:
I feel you guys are quietly disappointed by the serious.. I am an honest man and admit the better side did win but not by playing the better rugby (well to the lehman) to be fair, yer control on the set piece and an ability to thump a team up front is awesome.. the brusing hits you guys put in at times was bone crunching but most of the time hard and fair.. Matfield is a collosus in the lineout but i failed to see his input eleswhere.. (is that harsh) Botha is an animal it must be said but his indiscipline, be it harsh must be corrected.. I dont rate Burger anymore..not because of the eye gouging but in general play..he looks ruderless and optionless.. Brussow will be a world class operator.. the guy is a plague.. I was disappointed by Spies- ya ya he runs around in broken field play lalala, but he didnt live up to the pre tour billing, although i saw him do some serious damage in the S14, i am questioning his big game temperment and from a few interviews i recently read he carries alot of weight upstairs..not admirable imo.. Du Plesis looks abit of a butterbrain..in the 2nd test ye won a penalty on the lions 22 to draw the game for the springboks and the lad took off running and was turned over..if ye had lost that would be unforgiveable..that said he throws like a dart player and is well able in the loose..
As for the backs-bar pieterson and the speed demon on the other side, i dont rate the others as world class or even near it.. For me Pienarr isnt flat enough and seems to lack game management from ten while MSteyn is a bit of a one trick pony with the boot..although it is some trick!!!! FSteyn is another great kicker but i cant remember seeing him make a clinical line break..I just feel he wouldnt strike fear in the opposition side.. Fourie as stated by many South Africans should be starting and it would appear a balance with him and devilliers would be nice.. all that said for 60 minutes of the first test and 40 of the 2nd your backline was never used.. I Du Preez ye have a rugby genius, the guy is a pest and is ever there.. ever thinking ever creating..and all round footballer.... but he is comming from a country steeped in producing world class 9's.. this year he will challenge BOD for world player of the year imo.. and could very well take it..i read a guy stephan jones in the uk times critisize his tour saying there was only one world class 9 on show and it wasnt Du preez.. i question then why the times let this moron write.. if i had a choice i know who i would be taking..ya Philips has a nice break and is physical but his pass is laboured and slow and allows defenses to creep up on jones..plus he spends too much time on the deck.. i know who id be picking in my dream team!!!
to the future, im not convinced by the boks, they did control the game better than the lions and showed magnificant leadership throughout in the face of loss and adversity but one wonders what a more clinical finisher than ugo moyne with the same backplay might do.. If the all balck or Austrialia compete with your forwards then i fear for your chances in this years 3N..Added to the fact that the coach is clearly misguided and ill advised...i believe if PDV took off his mask, there is a smiling clown behind it.. You must start picking the best players in their best positions..It looks as if the players are running the show there..if he defends burger then what message is he giving his team..they will not be repremanded for foul play!!!!!!!!!! the man would do with pulling up his socks.. plus as stated by others, the white arm bands----------------------------W T F??????????
Finally I am a huge fan of the lions, it is the romance of rugby really and for me it lifted the game back to a magical podium once more.. I think even though we lost we should savour this moment, because we may not see rugby like this for quiet some time again.. Cheers Lions and Springboks...
However I would like to say a few things on the series as a whole.. I read practically every newspaper and the chances the lions were given pre-tour, especially by the English media were slim.. to come within 10-20 points of the boks would be an achievement..to go out there and loose just two matches from 10 and really compete to a degree where they could've won the series was enough for me for now..forget the bitterness..
On the Lions themselves:
I felt they played a brand of rugby that does not reflect the standard or type adopted in the 6N, which is slow, mundane and well inferior to the stuff played in the 3N at times.
For me the back play has been the best we have seen in 10 years or more, since the boot became the soul destroyer of the running man.. i was thrilled to see guys like Bowe, Earls, Moyne, Robberts, Kearney and O'Driscoll attack to cross the gain line at will and encouraged to do so.. As a avid fan of the game, ive watched as the magic of the broken field runner deteriorated at a rapid pace and feel slightly optimistic that this game as we know it may change for the better after this tour!! Being a Irish man i must applaud Rob Kearney. He was my player of the tour.. The springboks bombed him with eveything they had and he rose to the challenge with world class qualities and i challenge a man to pick a better fullback in world rugby at the moment.. I feel we have seen the last of O'Driscoll in a red shirt.. At 34, Australia would be a leap to far for the great man but he can feel proud that he is rightly being credited as possibly the greatest centre of the proffesional game.. Jamie Robberts is going to riddle defenses for years to come and some certain media critics, ie Stuart Barnes writing that the lions lacked an X-Factor by ommitting Cipriani et al recieved a nice lump of egg on his puss!!!!
Jones was rightly number 1 at number 10!!!!!!! I wish O'Gara didnt travel..he makes me nervous at the best of times and i know something bad was around the corner when he came on in the second test..he is a fine player for munster, ok for ireland but imo was never a world class operator, the man cant tackle and is suseptibale to oppostion taunts: note Argentina last autumn and some games in this series!!! it shows the lack of real class no 10s in the NH at the moment..Wilkinson has been some loss to the game.. All that said the lions back play was utterly superior to anything the springboks could produce and i feel the honest South African would admit this.. it is not because NH is better than SH or anything, its that tradionally South Africa dont produce the tidy smarts or nous behind the scrum, they are great from a set piece etc and Habana kills with the intercept but compared to their Aussie and New Zealand colleagues they are well lacking in midfield!
For me the forward unit punched away above their weight, but unfortuntately it was not enough at vital stages and they gave away too much ground to a superior force in the boks..they tackle lower and clear out harder and faster and it was there the series for me was truly lost.. the boks were clinical in most forward exchanges and i felt the decision to omit a natural leader like Ryan Jones was costly..(even though his from wasnt hectic.. you cant buy leadership)Bar O'Connel and subsequently a dropped Simon Shaw the Lions showed little leadership..How can Vickery lead when he was being creamed by the beast.. I think for all David Wallaces worth as a ball carrier, Martyn Williams smarts and footballing brian allied with lethal leadership qualities should have been playing.. Skalk Burger was the reason why the second test was such a contest, firstly due to the stupid sin bin, but mainly due to the fact the a new world force in poaching remained on the bench..to me Brussow was Krytonite to the Lions..his impact was frightening and Martyn Williams was needed to couteract him..i do not rate Warren Gatland and it was to be seen by the forward selections of Vickery and replacing one of the props with AW Jones when Williams should have been introduced to slow the resurgent Boks at the time.. All that said i feel certain players competed well with the best pack in the game, (by a considerable distance if they loose their arrogance)
Jamie Heaslip looks to be growing in stature, Ferris i believe will rock the rugby world in time while O'Connell is not the ultimate lock but not far from it either..it annoys me when people question his captaincy and worse his position... who else could you put in there to lead and carry like him... Croft is a bit or a mirage for me and only for the injury to Ferris would've seen time from the bench..Shaw is some man for one man it has to be said..bar the wrecklessness on Du preez, he was constant..I think the gaps in standards arent so significant but the springbok pack thinking animals, this cannot ever be under-estimated. the aggression and physicality are simply letahal...
All in all they can learn alot for SA in this department, they showed all tour why they are a force in world rugby with the speed strength and technique at the breakdown.. it was a joy to look at, at times..
To the Springboks:
I feel you guys are quietly disappointed by the serious.. I am an honest man and admit the better side did win but not by playing the better rugby (well to the lehman) to be fair, yer control on the set piece and an ability to thump a team up front is awesome.. the brusing hits you guys put in at times was bone crunching but most of the time hard and fair.. Matfield is a collosus in the lineout but i failed to see his input eleswhere.. (is that harsh) Botha is an animal it must be said but his indiscipline, be it harsh must be corrected.. I dont rate Burger anymore..not because of the eye gouging but in general play..he looks ruderless and optionless.. Brussow will be a world class operator.. the guy is a plague.. I was disappointed by Spies- ya ya he runs around in broken field play lalala, but he didnt live up to the pre tour billing, although i saw him do some serious damage in the S14, i am questioning his big game temperment and from a few interviews i recently read he carries alot of weight upstairs..not admirable imo.. Du Plesis looks abit of a butterbrain..in the 2nd test ye won a penalty on the lions 22 to draw the game for the springboks and the lad took off running and was turned over..if ye had lost that would be unforgiveable..that said he throws like a dart player and is well able in the loose..
As for the backs-bar pieterson and the speed demon on the other side, i dont rate the others as world class or even near it.. For me Pienarr isnt flat enough and seems to lack game management from ten while MSteyn is a bit of a one trick pony with the boot..although it is some trick!!!! FSteyn is another great kicker but i cant remember seeing him make a clinical line break..I just feel he wouldnt strike fear in the opposition side.. Fourie as stated by many South Africans should be starting and it would appear a balance with him and devilliers would be nice.. all that said for 60 minutes of the first test and 40 of the 2nd your backline was never used.. I Du Preez ye have a rugby genius, the guy is a pest and is ever there.. ever thinking ever creating..and all round footballer.... but he is comming from a country steeped in producing world class 9's.. this year he will challenge BOD for world player of the year imo.. and could very well take it..i read a guy stephan jones in the uk times critisize his tour saying there was only one world class 9 on show and it wasnt Du preez.. i question then why the times let this moron write.. if i had a choice i know who i would be taking..ya Philips has a nice break and is physical but his pass is laboured and slow and allows defenses to creep up on jones..plus he spends too much time on the deck.. i know who id be picking in my dream team!!!
to the future, im not convinced by the boks, they did control the game better than the lions and showed magnificant leadership throughout in the face of loss and adversity but one wonders what a more clinical finisher than ugo moyne with the same backplay might do.. If the all balck or Austrialia compete with your forwards then i fear for your chances in this years 3N..Added to the fact that the coach is clearly misguided and ill advised...i believe if PDV took off his mask, there is a smiling clown behind it.. You must start picking the best players in their best positions..It looks as if the players are running the show there..if he defends burger then what message is he giving his team..they will not be repremanded for foul play!!!!!!!!!! the man would do with pulling up his socks.. plus as stated by others, the white arm bands----------------------------W T F??????????
Finally I am a huge fan of the lions, it is the romance of rugby really and for me it lifted the game back to a magical podium once more.. I think even though we lost we should savour this moment, because we may not see rugby like this for quiet some time again.. Cheers Lions and Springboks...
C
C A Iversen
Guest
Don't worry too much KZNSharksFan. I have seen this sean43 stirring on this forum before and probably will again. Something tells me he gets picked on a lot in the real world and comes on here to vent his fury. Let's give the sad little fella a break, eh?
S
shazbooger
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KZNSharksFan @ Jul 6 2009, 02:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
The second reason is because people like you (and other posters NH and SH) take the bait and jump right in when an obvious WUM merchant stops by.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KZNSharksFan @ Jul 6 2009, 02:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Nahhh to be honest thats just stupid (but understandable). Think about it though, your letting a few internet personas dictate how you feel about millions of people you've never met. Its similar to every Englishman being a hooligan (they probably are though), every Irishman a potato eating alcoholic, every Welshman really wishes he/she was Irish and every South African is a racist.
Standard steroetypes that dont stand up to any kind of scrutiny .................. except for the Welsh one of course.
The thing is, aside from a few outriders, the majority of Lions fans have loved the series even though we lost. We feel we COULD have won, but that doesnt mean you guys didnt deserve to win. Some of your players shone, some faded, same for ours. There was so much to debate that the press had a field day but dont for a second mix up the press (English or Irish) with the fans. One has a business need to find a story, the other just observes.
There are two reasons for it. The first is because in the immediate aftermath of a game both sets of fans need to spin the win or loss. From the Lions point of view we wanted to talk up our chances, while you lot wanted recognition for a good win. Same in the second test, and to be honest same in pretty much every match thread (regardless of hemisphere). You want an honest opinion from all fans on the forum, ignore everything posted until about 2-3 days after the match and you get real rugby conversations.
The second reason is because people like you (and other posters NH and SH) take the bait and jump right in when an obvious WUM merchant stops by.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KZNSharksFan @ Jul 6 2009, 02:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Good to know its only the UK fans. Us Irish are luvely really
Nahhh to be honest thats just stupid (but understandable). Think about it though, your letting a few internet personas dictate how you feel about millions of people you've never met. Its similar to every Englishman being a hooligan (they probably are though
), every Irishman a potato eating alcoholic, every Welshman really wishes he/she was Irish and every South African is a racist. Standard steroetypes that dont stand up to any kind of scrutiny .................. except for the Welsh one of course.
The thing is, aside from a few outriders, the majority of Lions fans have loved the series even though we lost. We feel we COULD have won, but that doesnt mean you guys didnt deserve to win. Some of your players shone, some faded, same for ours. There was so much to debate that the press had a field day but dont for a second mix up the press (English or Irish) with the fans. One has a business need to find a story, the other just observes.
S
Steve-o
Guest
Very well written and balanced first post Macado. Welcome to the forum.
So many points you covered there but I'll like to comment on the Bok backline part.
Yes the Bok backline, especially the mid field, was impotent for the most part during the tour. You said "[besides Habana & Pietersen] i dont rate the others as world class or even near it". I disagree with that. P Divvy for all his talk of form, never selected the form 10, 12 & 13. Pienaar missed more than half of the S14, JdV has not played rugby for about 2 months & Jacobs has also had a injury ridden 2009. Choosing some many off form, unfit players in those 3 position killed our continuity. It's not surprising we scored so much off set pieces.
P Divvy never picked our best midfield ONCE in the Tests. JdV & Fourie are world class and are easily the best in their positions when on form.
One thing that I've noticed is that too Lions supporters are looking at the Boks in isolation during this tour.
You may not be convinced by this team but within a year they've: (1) Ended NZ's 5 year unbeaten record at home, (2) Given Oz their biggest defeat ever, (3) Given England-land their biggest defeat ever at Twickers, (4) Went unbeaten during the AI's, & (5) Won the Lions tours 2 Saturdays ago. All of this inspite of having a coach which is... well you know.
The thing that's making Boks supporters frustrated is that they could of done more. P Divvy is ruining a golden era in our rugby.
Still, great post, was enjoyable to read.
It seems the media from both sides are making things more bitter. I've read both SA and B&I media and there is definitely ego clashes amongst that lot.
So many points you covered there but I'll like to comment on the Bok backline part.
Yes the Bok backline, especially the mid field, was impotent for the most part during the tour. You said "[besides Habana & Pietersen] i dont rate the others as world class or even near it". I disagree with that. P Divvy for all his talk of form, never selected the form 10, 12 & 13. Pienaar missed more than half of the S14, JdV has not played rugby for about 2 months & Jacobs has also had a injury ridden 2009. Choosing some many off form, unfit players in those 3 position killed our continuity. It's not surprising we scored so much off set pieces.
P Divvy never picked our best midfield ONCE in the Tests. JdV & Fourie are world class and are easily the best in their positions when on form.
One thing that I've noticed is that too Lions supporters are looking at the Boks in isolation during this tour.
You may not be convinced by this team but within a year they've: (1) Ended NZ's 5 year unbeaten record at home, (2) Given Oz their biggest defeat ever, (3) Given England-land their biggest defeat ever at Twickers, (4) Went unbeaten during the AI's, & (5) Won the Lions tours 2 Saturdays ago. All of this inspite of having a coach which is... well you know.
The thing that's making Boks supporters frustrated is that they could of done more. P Divvy is ruining a golden era in our rugby.
Still, great post, was enjoyable to read.
It seems the media from both sides are making things more bitter. I've read both SA and B&I media and there is definitely ego clashes amongst that lot.
S
Sir Speedy
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Woldog @ Jul 6 2009, 10:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
So true +1
[/b][/quote]
Lol, Queensland.
And I wouldn't call Fourie and JdV the best players in their positions, either, form or not.
So true +1
[/b][/quote]
Lol, Queensland.
And I wouldn't call Fourie and JdV the best players in their positions, either, form or not.
S
Steve-o
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sir. Speedy @ Jul 6 2009, 04:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
So true +1
[/b][/quote]
Lol, Queensland.
And I wouldn't call Fourie and JdV the best players in their positions, either, form or not.
[/b][/quote]
I can't take any of your comments seriously anymore. You're so bias against the Boks or negative in general its laughable.
During a game the only thing I ever read (btw how the heck do you guys post and watch a game?!) from you is; Spies who?!, Beast who?!; Jdv who?! or Lol, *insert anything that person is associated with* like above.
So true +1
[/b][/quote]
Lol, Queensland.
And I wouldn't call Fourie and JdV the best players in their positions, either, form or not.
[/b][/quote]
I can't take any of your comments seriously anymore. You're so bias against the Boks or negative in general its laughable.
During a game the only thing I ever read (btw how the heck do you guys post and watch a game?!) from you is; Spies who?!, Beast who?!; Jdv who?! or Lol, *insert anything that person is associated with* like above.
S
shazbooger
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sir. Speedy @ Jul 6 2009, 04:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
But as for Speedy's comments on Spies specifically ...... well it was kinda valid. We were all hyping him up, both SH and NH fans as the best number 8 in the world but he's had a really quite series to be honest. There was a lot of Spies this and Spies that comments from the bok fans before the tests, all in good form, but aside from a few runs in the second test we barely saw him at all. Not saying he was bad, but he wasnt his usually dynamic self.
Speedy, and a lot more of us were responding to the hype. Same for the Beast who was hammered in the second test again dispelling the media driven hype.
I took that as meaning they were the best South African players in their position. (if not then .............. seconds out, round 167!)
But as for Speedy's comments on Spies specifically ...... well it was kinda valid. We were all hyping him up, both SH and NH fans as the best number 8 in the world but he's had a really quite series to be honest. There was a lot of Spies this and Spies that comments from the bok fans before the tests, all in good form, but aside from a few runs in the second test we barely saw him at all. Not saying he was bad, but he wasnt his usually dynamic self.
Speedy, and a lot more of us were responding to the hype. Same for the Beast who was hammered in the second test again dispelling the media driven hype.
J
Jer Mac
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Steve-o @ Jul 6 2009, 03:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Cheers Steve O,
Ehh look I know i may be abit narrow eyed when commenting on the Springbok midfield as im judging them on the past three games vs their achievements in the last 2-3 years and maybe as fans of the game we are seeking utter perfection which is completely harsh on the boks, they have dominated the game, of that there is no question but when you are up there and want to be called the best then the nit pickers come from the woodwork, hey if Ireland ever produced what the boks have done then we would all become alcoholics but i do hold my judgement for now on your midfield:
I totally respect Jean DeVillers, he is a powerful runner and excellent defender and rumours are Munster want him.. And they wouldnt want him if he wasnt a top player but World class by definition is the best 2-3 in that position and neither Fourie or DeVilliers fill that role for me at the moment, although i feel Fourie has the ability, judging by his try in the second test to be world class but alas he cannot, for a seemingly obvious reason, break into the Springbok test side which forms my current opinion of him!!
As for Morne, He looks like the real package, especially in S14, but isnt it an injustice to the likes of Gitteu and Carter to be calling him a world beater after only 2 tests.. I also respect Pienaar carried massive injuries this season and i really like his style of play but his game management and temperment came into question in the melting pot of the second test when the boks forwards were under the knife..
look the media, especially the English media can be bitter people.. Hell they cringed over O'Connell, saying he was a poor mans Johnson, instead of just backing the man!! They slated the Boks for foul play, but when you look at every game a S.A team play, be it club level or international, the one theme always comes to the fore..the boks Physicality, its part of the world game, like the French are the Aristicrats, the All-Blacks have the unique skill set, the Welsh have the beautiful running game.. Bar the Burger eye gouge, you accept the Boks will pummel you in contact, pick yourself up and get on with it and quit *****ing about it, its been there for 100 years and it will be there for another 100 too!!
Cheers Steve O,
Ehh look I know i may be abit narrow eyed when commenting on the Springbok midfield as im judging them on the past three games vs their achievements in the last 2-3 years and maybe as fans of the game we are seeking utter perfection which is completely harsh on the boks, they have dominated the game, of that there is no question but when you are up there and want to be called the best then the nit pickers come from the woodwork, hey if Ireland ever produced what the boks have done then we would all become alcoholics but i do hold my judgement for now on your midfield:
I totally respect Jean DeVillers, he is a powerful runner and excellent defender and rumours are Munster want him.. And they wouldnt want him if he wasnt a top player but World class by definition is the best 2-3 in that position and neither Fourie or DeVilliers fill that role for me at the moment, although i feel Fourie has the ability, judging by his try in the second test to be world class but alas he cannot, for a seemingly obvious reason, break into the Springbok test side which forms my current opinion of him!!
As for Morne, He looks like the real package, especially in S14, but isnt it an injustice to the likes of Gitteu and Carter to be calling him a world beater after only 2 tests.. I also respect Pienaar carried massive injuries this season and i really like his style of play but his game management and temperment came into question in the melting pot of the second test when the boks forwards were under the knife..
look the media, especially the English media can be bitter people.. Hell they cringed over O'Connell, saying he was a poor mans Johnson, instead of just backing the man!! They slated the Boks for foul play, but when you look at every game a S.A team play, be it club level or international, the one theme always comes to the fore..the boks Physicality, its part of the world game, like the French are the Aristicrats, the All-Blacks have the unique skill set, the Welsh have the beautiful running game.. Bar the Burger eye gouge, you accept the Boks will pummel you in contact, pick yourself up and get on with it and quit *****ing about it, its been there for 100 years and it will be there for another 100 too!!
M
munross
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sir. Speedy @ Jul 6 2009, 04:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
So true +1
[/b][/quote]
Lol, Queensland.
And I wouldn't call Fourie and JdV the best players in their positions, either, form or not.
[/b][/quote]
http://www.fallen-legion.eu/news/data/upimages/DoubleFacePalm.jpg
JdV might not be at his best at the moment and Roberts did play better then him on this tour, I'll give him that but
Jaque Fourie > BOD
So true +1
[/b][/quote]
Lol, Queensland.
And I wouldn't call Fourie and JdV the best players in their positions, either, form or not.
[/b][/quote]
http://www.fallen-legion.eu/news/data/upimages/DoubleFacePalm.jpg
JdV might not be at his best at the moment and Roberts did play better then him on this tour, I'll give him that but
Jaque Fourie > BOD
S
shazbooger
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Intercept King JdV @ Jul 6 2009, 04:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
The Avatar however is a classic example of what you lot have spent the last month saying you DONT do.
You should find one of Brussow dumping Williams on the ground in the third test. The futility of it, and the actual pictures were a perfect combination.
Fourie aint good enough to clean BOD's boots mate. I think thats something we can all agree on.Jaque Fourie > BOD
The Avatar however is a classic example of what you lot have spent the last month saying you DONT do
.You should find one of Brussow dumping Williams on the ground in the third test. The futility of it, and the actual pictures were a perfect combination.
S
Steve-o
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Logorrhea @ Jul 6 2009, 05:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
But as for Speedy's comments on Spies specifically ...... well it was kinda valid. We were all hyping him up, both SH and NH fans as the best number 8 in the world but he's had a really quite series to be honest. There was a lot of Spies this and Spies that comments from the bok fans before the tests, all in good form, but aside from a few runs in the second test we barely saw him at all. Not saying he was bad, but he wasnt his usually dynamic self.
Speedy, and a lot more of us were responding to the hype. Same for the Beast who was hammered in the second test again dispelling the media driven hype.
[/b][/quote]
Not all of us!
It's actually quite funny how most of the hype came from the British media. Sky just love the guy.
...The British hype machine strikes again???
Onto BEAST!!!
Overseas media seems too not understand the context of the crowd shouting BEAST!!! He didn't get that name from the SA supporters because they think he's the best there ever was and ever will be, he got it whilst in school. Apparently his father even called him that.
He is an awesome player unlike we've ever had. SA have never produced a decent black prop. Then he comes along and his names catches on. He has become a fan favourite for his energetic, charismatic, passionate and powerful play. In all honesty I think SA fans enjoy seeing a good black prop forward in our country.
IMO he is not the best loosehead in SA. I said this before the tour and even way before that, that I think Heinke van der Merwe is the best loosehead in SA.
BEAST!!! offers a great deal in the loose but his short comings in the scrum are well known amongst SA supporters. We know this especially since he was a 8th man not longer than 3 years ago.
He deserves to be in the Bok setup though, awesome player.
You'll find the same calling of the only white player in SA's national soccer team. Booth is a tall, lanky defender, unlike anything the soccer fans have seen. He's not the best, but his unorthodox play has caught their imagination and they call out "Booooth!" whenever he touches the ball.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Macado @ Jul 6 2009, 05:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Cheers Steve O,
Ehh look I know i may be abit narrow eyed when commenting on the Springbok midfield as im judging them on the past three games vs their achievements in the last 2-3 years and maybe as fans of the game we are seeking utter perfection which is completely harsh on the boks, they have dominated the game, of that there is no question but when you are up there and want to be called the best then the nit pickers come from the woodwork, hey if Ireland ever produced what the boks have done then we would all become alcoholics but i do hold my judgement for now on your midfield:
I totally respect Jean DeVillers, he is a powerful runner and excellent defender and rumours are Munster want him.. And they wouldnt want him if he wasnt a top player but World class by definition is the best 2-3 in that position and neither Fourie or DeVilliers fill that role for me at the moment, although i feel Fourie has the ability, judging by his try in the second test to be world class but alas he cannot, for a seemingly obvious reason, break into the Springbok test side which forms my current opinion of him!!
As for Morne, He looks like the real package, especially in S14, but isnt it an injustice to the likes of Gitteu and Carter to be calling him a world beater after only 2 tests.. I also respect Pienaar carried massive injuries this season and i really like his style of play but his game management and temperment came into question in the melting pot of the second test when the boks forwards were under the knife..
look the media, especially the English media can be bitter people.. Hell they cringed over O'Connell, saying he was a poor mans Johnson, instead of just backing the man!! They slated the Boks for foul play, but when you look at every game a S.A team play, be it club level or international, the one theme always comes to the fore..the boks Physicality, its part of the world game, like the French are the Aristicrats, the All-Blacks have the unique skill set, the Welsh have the beautiful running game.. Bar the Burger eye gouge, you accept the Boks will pummel you in contact, pick yourself up and get on with it and quit *****ing about it, its been there for 100 years and it will be there for another 100 too!!
[/b][/quote]
Fair comments all around again.
I took the slightly bias comments in context, as I imagine you have with mine.
I just don't agree that you can call the 5th highest try scorer in Bok history, Jacque Fourie, not Bok 1st team material.
Along with Brussows selection, fans all over SA have been calling for Fourie to take his rightful place at 13. This guy has a strike rate that will make wingers blush. He is pure class. He's better than Jacobs. I'm sure any of the Bok fans will agree there?
In fact I think they might neg rep me for posing such a stupid question
I took that as meaning they were the best South African players in their position. (if not then .............. seconds out, round 167!)
But as for Speedy's comments on Spies specifically ...... well it was kinda valid. We were all hyping him up, both SH and NH fans as the best number 8 in the world but he's had a really quite series to be honest. There was a lot of Spies this and Spies that comments from the bok fans before the tests, all in good form, but aside from a few runs in the second test we barely saw him at all. Not saying he was bad, but he wasnt his usually dynamic self.
Speedy, and a lot more of us were responding to the hype. Same for the Beast who was hammered in the second test again dispelling the media driven hype.
[/b][/quote]
Not all of us!
It's actually quite funny how most of the hype came from the British media. Sky just love the guy.
...The British hype machine strikes again???
Onto BEAST!!!
Overseas media seems too not understand the context of the crowd shouting BEAST!!! He didn't get that name from the SA supporters because they think he's the best there ever was and ever will be, he got it whilst in school. Apparently his father even called him that.
He is an awesome player unlike we've ever had. SA have never produced a decent black prop. Then he comes along and his names catches on. He has become a fan favourite for his energetic, charismatic, passionate and powerful play. In all honesty I think SA fans enjoy seeing a good black prop forward in our country.
IMO he is not the best loosehead in SA. I said this before the tour and even way before that, that I think Heinke van der Merwe is the best loosehead in SA.
BEAST!!! offers a great deal in the loose but his short comings in the scrum are well known amongst SA supporters. We know this especially since he was a 8th man not longer than 3 years ago.
He deserves to be in the Bok setup though, awesome player.
You'll find the same calling of the only white player in SA's national soccer team. Booth is a tall, lanky defender, unlike anything the soccer fans have seen. He's not the best, but his unorthodox play has caught their imagination and they call out "Booooth!" whenever he touches the ball.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Macado @ Jul 6 2009, 05:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Cheers Steve O,
Ehh look I know i may be abit narrow eyed when commenting on the Springbok midfield as im judging them on the past three games vs their achievements in the last 2-3 years and maybe as fans of the game we are seeking utter perfection which is completely harsh on the boks, they have dominated the game, of that there is no question but when you are up there and want to be called the best then the nit pickers come from the woodwork, hey if Ireland ever produced what the boks have done then we would all become alcoholics but i do hold my judgement for now on your midfield:
I totally respect Jean DeVillers, he is a powerful runner and excellent defender and rumours are Munster want him.. And they wouldnt want him if he wasnt a top player but World class by definition is the best 2-3 in that position and neither Fourie or DeVilliers fill that role for me at the moment, although i feel Fourie has the ability, judging by his try in the second test to be world class but alas he cannot, for a seemingly obvious reason, break into the Springbok test side which forms my current opinion of him!!
As for Morne, He looks like the real package, especially in S14, but isnt it an injustice to the likes of Gitteu and Carter to be calling him a world beater after only 2 tests.. I also respect Pienaar carried massive injuries this season and i really like his style of play but his game management and temperment came into question in the melting pot of the second test when the boks forwards were under the knife..
look the media, especially the English media can be bitter people.. Hell they cringed over O'Connell, saying he was a poor mans Johnson, instead of just backing the man!! They slated the Boks for foul play, but when you look at every game a S.A team play, be it club level or international, the one theme always comes to the fore..the boks Physicality, its part of the world game, like the French are the Aristicrats, the All-Blacks have the unique skill set, the Welsh have the beautiful running game.. Bar the Burger eye gouge, you accept the Boks will pummel you in contact, pick yourself up and get on with it and quit *****ing about it, its been there for 100 years and it will be there for another 100 too!!
[/b][/quote]
Fair comments all around again.
I took the slightly bias comments in context, as I imagine you have with mine
.I just don't agree that you can call the 5th highest try scorer in Bok history, Jacque Fourie, not Bok 1st team material.
Along with Brussows selection, fans all over SA have been calling for Fourie to take his rightful place at 13. This guy has a strike rate that will make wingers blush. He is pure class. He's better than Jacobs. I'm sure any of the Bok fans will agree there?
In fact I think they might neg rep me for posing such a stupid question
J
Jer Mac
Guest
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>
Apologies, I was led to believe Fourie isnt in the team due to the politics in the South African game??????????? Is that well wide of the mark????????
I know Fourie has a tremendous strike rate for the boks (plus his try in the corner was a serious score) but my judgement was based on the fact that he wasnt playing, simple as that!! ill just have to take your word for it!!!!!!!!!!!
Fair comments all around again.
I took the slightly bias comments in context, as I imagine you have with mine
I just don't agree that you can call the 5th highest try scorer in Bok history, Jacque Fourie, not Bok 1st team material.
Along with Brussows selection, fans all over SA have been calling for Fourie to take his rightful place at 13. This guy has a strike rate that will make wingers blush. He is pure class. He's better than Jacobs. I'm sure any of the Bok fans will agree there?
In fact I think they might neg rep me for posing such a stupid question
Apologies, I was led to believe Fourie isnt in the team due to the politics in the South African game??????????? Is that well wide of the mark????????
I know Fourie has a tremendous strike rate for the boks (plus his try in the corner was a serious score) but my judgement was based on the fact that he wasnt playing, simple as that!! ill just have to take your word for it!!!!!!!!!!!
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