[2019 Rugby Championship] Round 2: New Zealand vs. South Africa (27/07/2019)

[BobbyM]

I guess it's a little bit like the anthems in a way; a way to get one really pumped up for the game. Can't think of any international rugby teams that get an "advantage" when it comes to the anthems

I am joking of course, we're getting very close to Brailsford and marginal gains type chat here

 

[TRF_Olyy]

View attachment 7259Back to the game, Those are some pretty telling stats

One of the smallest wingers in the game vs one of the most powerful - Kolbe is beast

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I hope kolbe helps dispel the myth that there is no place for small, agile wingers in the game any more. Too many smaller players don't even get a look in because someone just compares the height and weight stars and that alalo ends any chance they had, regardless of how they perform.

 

[Derpus]

But it's not a slitting throat motion, its Gesticulating the last breath leaving the body, as in giving my last breath for this cause, but they still changed it to stop before the throat because people became offended before actually doing any research

Is it stomping or is it dancing? One trivialises and one tries to make it scary... it's just something different from another culture people don't like because they don't understand and don't want to understand

And we do use it to welcome people...you might not but hey...everyone's different...we do them to our own teams to welcome them home...exactly the same haka...do you think were threatening our own teams? They are very common at funerals to honour to the person that's passed...once again...not some someone you need to threaten

I was just joking man.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

I was just joking man.

If so then apologies, lots of people make those arguments seriously so it's hard to know

@Rinkadink was a dislike really necessary? The haka must really bug you

One of the smallest wingers in the game vs one of the most powerful - Kolbe is beast

Was pretty cool so see some different to the current norm work so well

 

[Rinkadink]

I hope kolbe helps dispel the myth that there is no place for small, agile wingers in the game any more.

Not just wingers, it can be really difficult for taller players to get down low and be as effective.

Not quite sure what it means for either side right now, my family in NZ aren't concerned although of course would have liked a win. The World Cup seems a fair way off still.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

Does this mean that we think our first choice 9 isn't settled?

I have also seen loads of clips from schools when a teacher is retiring or something like that and the pupils will perform one as a thanks for their years of service.

Nah, doesn't mean that, but other things might mean that. 70 30 odds it's still aaron. Personally I'd start aaron simply because I don't trust his hotheadedness to close out tight high pressure World Cup games. The finishing 15 has to be the calm guys for me.

 

[Icemn]

Was that pass to Kolbe leading up to the SA try forward??? No doubt the ball moved forward in the air as you can see where Willie is and where Kolbe it trying to reach for the ball still but im not sure about willie's hand movement. Looks like his hands move forward when passing...

 

[Kiwiwomble]

Was that pass to Kolbe leading up to the SA try forward??? No doubt the ball moved forward in the air as you can see where Willie is and where Kolbe it trying to reach for the ball still but im not sure about willie's hand movement. Looks like his hands move forward when passing...


View attachment 7260

Doesn't look forward to me ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[WaterboySA]

The Haka is the second best thing in rugby after the Welsh national anthem when they play at home.....goosebumps.

 

[Gena_ZA]

Recap of the game and where both teams stand.
Read what you want onto these games, this is a World Cup year, and when that starts whatever we think we know today means nothing.

Was a tough game, almost a game of two halves, SA lucky to get a draw based on the stats where the AB dominated in almost everything.
But to get a draw in NZ means a lot for self belief and momentum in this important year.
My view on the teams and where they stand:

All Blacks:
- This was not heir strongest team - 12/13 and 6/7 could be much stronger
- 10/15 Experiment revealed little other the BB can play anywhere and will be very very good. Richie is only great behind a dominating Crusader pack, when under pressure he is much like Jantjies (but more raw talent)
- Dan Coles is the best hooker in world rugby, better than Marx in his total game
- SBW, he is way off form as I said before the game, Hansen now pulled him out as he realized he need more game time
- Brodie injury could have a massive affect - reports today suggest not as serious as initially anticipated, good news for world rugby
- Ben Smith - he is a full back and a damn good one - don't waste him on the wing

Springboks:
- Kwagga at openside flanker - yes he was energetic but is he the best open side in SA? Maybe a backup once Kolisi is back
- Props are a bit pedestrian, especially Malherbe. With his pure strength he can cause more damage as a substitution late in the game, being fresh then, he tends to run out of steam too early
- 12 - Not convinced both centres that played in the first two games are good enough, want to see Frans Steyn there for a full game
- Mapimpi - SA need Dyantyi back, period.
- Pieter Steph du Toit - must be one of the most hard working players on the planet
-Cheslin Kolbe - he has always had it in him and if not for the previous coach he could have had 10+ more tests to his name - still believes at 15 he could be way more dangerous
- No 9 - for the first time in like forever SA have some very good players and depth

Difficult to say which team is best positioned at this stage but the momentum is turning, this All Black team is no longer the complete rugby team that is unbeatable, game on!

 

[TRF_heineken]

I agree Gena.

I wouldn't read too much into both teams prior to the World Cup, but for us to not lose 2 games in NZ in 2 years does say a lot about our mental toughness, and the belief in the squad.

For me, Rassie is doing a good juggling job with regards to rotation and testing things out while still having the team improve. We have a week off this week before Argentina, and I suspect we will again see some wholesale changes to this past weekend.

Nyakane should be our pick at no. 3. He made a massive difference when he came on. Kwagga's second game in green wasn't as bad as you make it sound though. I thought he was fantastic and complimented his fellow forwards brilliantly. Kolisi should be the first choice, yes, but Flouw, Coetzee and Kwagga there, we certainly aren't downgrading in that position.

Faf and Willie took a while to get going, but then again they also did that last year against England, and then turned on the magic. Hopefully they will defrost as we edge closer to the World Cup.

 

[BobbyM]

All Blacks:
- This was not heir strongest team - 12/13 and 6/7 could be much stronger
- 10/15 Experiment revealed little other the BB can play anywhere and will be very very good. Richie is only great behind a dominating Crusader pack, when under pressure he is much like Jantjies (but more raw talent)
- Dan Coles is the best hooker in world rugby, better than Marx in his total game
- SBW, he is way off form as I said before the game, Hansen now pulled him out as he realized he need more game time
- Brodie injury could have a massive affect - reports today suggest not as serious as initially anticipated, good news for world rugby
- Ben Smith - he is a full back and a damn good one - don't waste him on the wing.

Completely agree about Coles, it is fantastic seeing him back. He also seems to low-key hit his jumper at the lineout almost every time, which is so important for us.

I'm really getting very worried though about the midfield. Not knowing who should play in either centre position is a concern that doesn't seem to be becoming any clearer. Do we think we're any closer to knowing that nailed on 12/13 combo? I agree that we can have better players at 6/7 but again not having a settled back row concerns me. I get with injury volumes it's hard to have one play all the way through the tournament, but even just from a training perspective we should have the back row playing together regularly enough by now.

On 10/15 I get what they're trying and when it is DMac and BB it's loads of fun and very difficult to defend against. Richie maybe isn't "dynamic" enough to play that style, but I'm hoping that with a first choice pack it can work. I also think we're struggling at RW which is almost forcing us to play Bender there.

 

[Rinkadink]

.

Was a tough game, almost a game of two halves, SA lucky to get a draw based on the stats where the AB dominated in almost everything.

This is a bit disingenuous, SA dominated first half with things like 57/59% territory and possession yet still went in behind (I agree there is more to a game than stats), the second half was vice versa. Running stats don't tell you everything as by full time SA put in significantly more kicks (30 vs NZ's 20) which of course will result in more tackles being made. NZ only put the ball in to a scrum 4 times (conceding 19 turnovers) vs SA's 8 (conceding 13 turnovers) and that's without getting to a major point of NZ only having a 67% kicking success from the tee vs SA's 80%.

Luck didn't really come into it as it was pretty neutral. Both teams can and will likely do better during the WC, draw seems a fair result when you take everything into account.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Completely agree about Coles, it is fantastic seeing him back. He also seems to low-key hit his jumper at the lineout almost every time, which is so important for us.

I'm really getting very worried though about the midfield. Not knowing who should play in either centre position is a concern that doesn't seem to be becoming any clearer. Do we think we're any closer to knowing that nailed on 12/13 combo? I agree that we can have better players at 6/7 but again not having a settled back row concerns me. I get with injury volumes it's hard to have one play all the way through the tournament, but even just from a training perspective we should have the back row playing together regularly enough by now.

On 10/15 I get what they're trying and when it is DMac and BB it's loads of fun and very difficult to defend against. Richie maybe isn't "dynamic" enough to play that style, but I'm hoping that with a first choice pack it can work. I also think we're struggling at RW which is almost forcing us to play Bender there.

Surely the 6/7 preference would be Sam Cane and Ardie Savea? That is a very potent combo alongside Read. But yeah, The reserves in that position has been a bit underwhelming.

I'm a big fan ALB in the Centre position, and for me, ALB alongside Crotty should be the choice to go for as it provides the backline with a bit more defensive structure and resilience.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

I thought Read's handling in the game was pretty bad. Will he get dropped and Ardie come in at 8?

I think there was an argument to put Scott Barrett at 6 before the Brodie injury.

 

[mania]

Difficult to say which team is best positioned at this stage but the momentum is turning, this All Black team is no longer the complete rugby team that is unbeatable, game on!

ABs have never been unbeatable. thats just what everyone else believes. ABs didnt start this myth nor do they cater to the "unbeatable aura". ABs train hard and consider every game a possible defeat. the beauty of the ABs mentality is its all about respect...even the WBs.
but totally agree with your summation
forwards came to life when coles got on the field but i'd still have him come off the bench for now. cTaylor is playing awesome as well.
centres should be crotty (when fit) and laumape. goodhue and ALB as reserves
cane and ardie to come back
kwagga was hard working and is the perfect counter point to kolisi. kolisi is a dynamic ball runner and tackler, kwagga is a specialist fetcher and master of the dark arts. imo diversity is the key to survival .
d4m boks have an awesome loose trio
rassie for coach of the year? i really enjoy the way he's coached the boks so far. you feel there is real belief in the team and seems to be a positive powerful culture. im happy to say that imho the mighty Boks are back and world rugby will be better for it.

 

[mania]

I've actually mentioned on here that (for me anyway) I feel it's totally fair and if anything it would engage my psyche perfectly pre-match. The 'issue' discussed is totally different to that and it's been mentioned so much on this thread alone that it is not worth reiterating.

yeah but if we stopped doing the haka then we'd be as boring as everyone else. believe it or not , not everyone wants to be like NH teams.
its a bit colour in an otherwise ho hum atmosphere.
johnEales said "if you're intimidated by the haka then you probably shouldnt be playing"
oppn are allowed to reply to the haka. its the honourable thing to do. in NZ if one school does a haka the polite thing is to do one back. as long as its not the same one its very inspiring and a spine tingling experince if done properly.
its all about respect

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

yeah but if we stopped doing the haka then we'd be as boring as everyone else. believe it or not , not everyone wants to be like NH teams.
its a bit colour in an otherwise ho hum atmosphere.
johnEales said "if you're intimidated by the haka then you probably shouldnt be playing"
oppn are allowed to reply to the haka. its the honourable thing to do. in NZ if one school does a haka the polite thing is to do one back. as long as its not the same one its very inspiring and a spine tingling experince if done properly.
its all about respect

Rah if England did the haka everyone would have a hissy fit

 

[mania]

Rah if England did the haka everyone would have a hissy fit

its a haka. there is more than one
if England did KaMate or KapoOPango then yes there would be a hissy fit as you have no right to do it. its like copyRightOwnership thing but in MaoriTanga. u gotta ask the iwi that own them and get permission.
its a respect thing