[2019 Rugby Championship] Round 2: New Zealand vs. South Africa (27/07/2019)

[bushytop]

its a haka. there is more than one
if England did KaMate or KapoOPango then yes there would be a hissy fit as you have no right to do it. its like copyRightOwnership thing but in MaoriTanga. u gotta ask the iwi that own them and get permission.
its a respect thing

It's also a cultural thing and if England (or any other team who is not in the South Sea Isles) performed one (permitted or not) it would just be ridiculous. An English (or whomever) response would have to be culturally appropriate to the country responding... like an Irishman throwing grass or something .

 

[Bada-Bing!]

So a culturally appropriate response can the Eagles just do this when facing the AB Haka:

 

[bushytop]

So a culturally appropriate response can the Eagles just do this when facing the AB Haka:

He gets it!

 

[mania]

It's also a cultural thing and if England (or any other team who is not in the South Sea Isles) performed one (permitted or not) it would just be ridiculous. An English (or whomever) response would have to be culturally appropriate to the country responding... like an Irishman throwing grass or something .

its not the South Sea Isles fault yogurt has more culture

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

its not the South Sea Isles fault yogurt has more culture

Soooo we should throw yogurt in response?

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Irish dance actually takes talent, rugby players couldn't do it...

 

[bushytop]

Soooo we should throw yogurt in response?

Well unless you're Turkish (or I'll allow greek) no due to cultural appropriation... you could 'swill them' with Pimms though.

 

[mania]

Soooo we should throw yogurt in response?

as long as its English yoghurt

 

[TRF_heineken]

It's also a cultural thing and if England (or any other team who is not in the South Sea Isles) performed one (permitted or not) it would just be ridiculous. An English (or whomever) response would have to be culturally appropriate to the country responding... like an Irishman throwing grass or something .

African cultures also have war dances. And our politicians dance with the public on regular occasions. They also have struggle songs (because of Apartheid) and some of those songs are pretty ominous. I think the most polarizing one is "Umshini Wam" which means "Bring my Machine (gun)". Now culturally our black community would sing and dance on songs like these as a form of unity amongst themselves, and to issue a warning that they won't back down. Which would be rather fitting for the Springboks. But I know for certain that they'll never do that, partly because of the white players in the team and that it's mostly a black thing, but also it's more used in the political space and nowhere else.

Then again, not all the All Black players are Maori.

 

[bushytop]

Then again, not all the All Black players are Maori.

No but the relationship between the 'white settlers' and the Maori has never been like the Afrikaans and the indigenous races.

Been trying to think of a Welsh response... I reckon our boys singing Men of Harlech actually during the Haka would be pretty epic.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Have you guys seen this:

https://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/Rug...-caught-moving-ball-behind-refs-back-20190730
https://au.sports.yahoo.com/beauden...GUpZp3Xz-MtAkD_CuVnJfoc8ln3TKmWzYM2UkYE3etNPe

A lot of angry fans out there, even though it's one of the oldest tricks in the book...

 

[unrated]

Have you guys seen this:

https://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/Rug...-caught-moving-ball-behind-refs-back-20190730
https://au.sports.yahoo.com/beauden...GUpZp3Xz-MtAkD_CuVnJfoc8ln3TKmWzYM2UkYE3etNPe

A lot of angry fans out there, even though it's one of the oldest tricks in the book...

I saw a guy posting it over the weekend.
Lots of cheat claims has already been leveled against Barret. On the one side some people says "it happens all the time, don't worry" on the other side people are saying that it's blatant cheating. If they don't allow doping in sport because it gives a performance enhancing advantage and this gives a performance enhancing advantage then what makes this different from cheating? Some might argue "but it's so marignal" "probably won't even notice a difference". Well those arguments can be applied to both what Barret did and marginal forms of doping. Just remember guys getting caught out for doping does not always use harcote substances such as steroids. Sometimes it's drugs that only has very slight effects that at one point might have been legal until WR changed rules.

So this is to me comparable to sandpaper gate from the Audsies in the cricket.

So you might say this is an over reaction. OK fine we can use that narrative. It's OK right? I mean that would not have had much of an influence on the game anyway right? Let's leave it then and forget.

But... Let it now become a practice. Let's see how well you can coordinate with your teammates so that they can help signal you when the ref is looking away so that you can kick the ball further. Make it a common practice.

So I think he should be cited. Just like with post game red cards. A citing commissioners sees it he says its not in the spirit of the game, same as a player spitting another ( refer to Nico Lee Pro 14)

If you are reading this and think there is nothing wrong with this and then in advance that he should not be punished. Saying that it's just Cheeky, oh that Barret let's just laugh at how cheeky he is... No harm done... Then do you advocate it happening on a regular basis and if not, why not?

 

[TRF_heineken]

No but the relationship between the 'white settlers' and the Maori has never been like the Afrikaans and the indigenous races.

I'm really interested in what you mean by this. Could you please elaborate.

I saw a guy posting it over the weekend.
Lots of cheat claims has already been leveled against Barret. On the one side some people says "it happens all the time, don't worry" on the other side people are saying that it's blatant cheating. If they don't allow doping in sport because it gives a performance enhancing advantage and this gives a performance enhancing advantage then what makes this different from cheating? Some might argue "but it's so marignal" "probably won't even notice a difference". Well those arguments can be applied to both what Barret did and marginal forms of doping. Just remember guys getting caught out for doping does not always use harcote substances such as steroids. Sometimes it's drugs that only has very slight effects that at one point might have been legal until WR changed rules.

So this is to me comparable to sandpaper gate from the Audsies in the cricket.

So you might say this is an over reaction. OK fine we can use that narrative. It's OK right? I mean that would not have had much of an influence on the game anyway right? Let's leave it then and forget.

But... Let it now become a practice. Let's see how well you can coordinate with your teammates so that they can help signal you when the ref is looking away so that you can kick the ball further. Make it a common practice.

So I think he should be cited. Just like with post game red cards. A citing commissioners sees it he says its not in the spirit of the game, same as a player spitting another ( refer to Nico Lee Pro 14)

If you are reading this and think there is nothing wrong with this and then in advance that he should not be punished. Saying that it's just Cheeky, oh that Barret let's just laugh at how cheeky he is... No harm done... Then do you advocate it happening on a regular basis and if not, why not?

Oh I agree that it should be addressed, it's getting more blatant by the day, and it's not the first time that Barrett has been under the microscope.

If he get cited, and then banned or suspended, he runs the risk of not going to the World Cup. I think that will be the best punishment to set an example.

But I want to take this further. Barrett wasn't kicking so accurately in the game. Had he not moved the ball, the possibility would have been there that there would have been more pressure on him to make the kick, the distance would have been increased, even though the angle would have been better. It all comes down to had he missed this kick, the possibility was there that the AB's would have lost the game. And that is where these kind of blatant cheating has no place in rugby.

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

Barrett's half a meter nudge forward was one of the least egregious ones I've seen. Commentators have been complaining about it since I started watching rugby. One of the steyns (whichever one played for Montpellier) would often kick 5m in front of the mark.
It's just something that players get away with when they think they can. The worse thing that happens is the ref tells them to put the tee back on the mark.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Citing... Really? Currently if you're caught doing it in a game you're just told to put the ball back, you can't cite a player for something incredibly common because someone on twitter posted a video.

This isn't something to criticise Barrett over. In game, and non-violent/dangerous, cheating can't really be seen as the fault of players, no one is going to guilt a competitor into not taking a slight advantage when they can get away with it. Blame the refereeing or WR for allowing it.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Probably made no difference considering his kicking form

Amazed that none of the officials clocked it live, but it's not the end of the world - have a look at how many kicks to the corner actually go from where the mark is, how many lineout throwers step to the side just before they throw in etc.

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

Well the ARs should be moving to the posts at that point and obviously the ref was looking away.

Even if the ref was looking right at him the nudge was still so close to the mark I doubt he would have cared.

 

[bushytop]

I'm really interested in what you mean by this. Could you please elaborate.

Well, not that I'm an expert or anything (I'm sure that you understand the situation far better than i) but apartheid is a good place to start.

Also, an old business partner of mine was South African (Well Namibian but he considered himself South African) and he would talk a lot about the 'divide' and the animosity (on both sides) as a result. He also would bemoan the current state of affairs with land reclamation the vandalism of public monuments celebrating the 'builder's' of South Africa etc.

Now I'm not agreeing nor disagreeing with his views just pointing out that there is a history of '****le' (being as un-inflamatory as I can here)... where as the history of New Zealand (since being 'discovered') doesn't seem to be so pointed. I could be wrong.

 

[Every Time Ref]

I'm a kicker, I've done this on pretty much every penalty I've ever taken. Should probably not be happening at pro level with cameras everywhere but yeah, it's pretty irrelevant in my view.

I also, whenever I have a penalty awarded within the 5m tramlines, I tell the ref I'm taking it out 5m as per the laws. I have never had that questioned by any ref, but it isn't actually a law...

 

[TRF_heineken]

Well, not that I'm an expert or anything (I'm sure that you understand the situation far better than i) but apartheid is a good place to start.

Also, an old business partner of mine was South African (Well Namibian but he considered himself South African) and he would talk a lot about the 'divide' and the animosity (on both sides) as a result. He also would bemoan the current state of affairs with land reclamation the vandalism of public monuments celebrating the 'builder's' of South Africa etc.

Now I'm not agreeing nor disagreeing with his views just pointing out that there is a history of '****le' (being as un-inflamatory as I can here)... where as the history of New Zealand (since being 'discovered') doesn't seem to be so pointed. I could be wrong.

Ah, I see, so you're only looking at this from the Apartheid era perspective.

But before that, during the Boer-wars and even before that, the Afrikaans community and the Black tribes had a long standing partnership on several fronts, one of them was a partnership in battle against the English.

I guess I should also have clarified that, my apologies.

What I'm trying to get at, is that not only the Pacific Islands had indigenous people who had war dances. Africa has the same, and with colonization the European settlers had to embrace their cultures and build from there.

Probably made no difference considering his kicking form

Amazed that none of the officials clocked it live, but it's not the end of the world - have a look at how many kicks to the corner actually go from where the mark is, how many lineout throwers step to the side just before they throw in etc.

Haha, true that.

But in all honesty, that was about a gain of 3 meters, and he did it so deliberately as the referee walked past him. Then again, that wasn't the only thing the referee missed from the replays, such as the knock-on prior to that penalty...