[2019 Rugby Championship] Round 2: New Zealand vs. South Africa (27/07/2019)

[bushytop]

Do we have to have another thread about the haka? It's been done to death

To summarise what we normally end up realising but then forget for some reason...kiwis don't care what you in response, WR might for some reason but I've never met a kiwi that did, if the players feel disrespected on the ground that's just going to fire them up more

But I do agree with the double standard, booing a kicker sucks and should be discouraged

Soz Jab... somehow I've missed all these other threads on the subject, hence my misread of @TRF_Olyy 's original post. Still, glad to see the average New Zealander has no problem with a response... World Rugby are frikkin weird though.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Even Ireland making the '8' in Chicago was said to be a sign of disrespect by a few. No normal person cares about the haka, it's a choreographed dance, very Justin Timberlake. It's the preciousness and rules surrounding it that gets criticised, world rugby literally allow a war dance and don't allow the other team do anything in response, it's an obvious double standard.

And yeah it's the same for the Pacific nations but obviously that stems from the haka and rules surrounding it rather than the other way around like.

 

[BobbyM]

No one is complaining about the haka... just the fact it is deemed 'immaculate' by world rugby.

I think it was Olyy who brought it up on this thread. It's been covered and been moaned about numerous times on this forum. I'm merely pointing out that there are a complaints regularly about it being "unfair", usually following an AB game, but we don't seem to hear the same comments after Samoa or Fiji or Tonga play.

the opposing captain decides to throw some blades of grass in the air in a response to a war dance, should he then be targeted for a potential career-ending illegal tackle?

I thought the blade of grass throwing was meant to be an appropriate response to the Haka?

 

[bushytop]

I think it was Olyy who brought it up on this thread. It's been covered and been moaned about numerous times on this forum. I'm merely pointing out that there are a complaints regularly about it being "unfair", usually following an AB game, but we don't seem to hear the same comments after Samoa or Fiji or Tonga play.


I thought the blade of grass throwing was meant to be an appropriate response to the Haka?

Couldn't have been that appropriate as Tana and good Old Kev would'nt have tried to gang-murder him for it... allegedly .

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I think it was Olyy who brought it up on this thread.

It was a joke about the crowd booing yesterday, I really don't care about the dance

 

[bushytop]

I think it was Olyy who brought it up on this thread. It's been covered and been moaned about numerous times on this forum. I'm merely pointing out that there are a complaints regularly about it being "unfair", usually following an AB game, but we don't seem to hear the same comments after Samoa or Fiji or Tonga play.

I've actually mentioned on here that (for me anyway) I feel it's totally fair and if anything it would engage my psyche perfectly pre-match. The 'issue' discussed is totally different to that and it's been mentioned so much on this thread alone that it is not worth reiterating.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

Couldn't have been that appropriate as Tana and good Old Kev would'nt have tried to gang-murder him for it... allegedly .

He coulda doid. It was just an elaborate Hollywood wasn't it?

 

[bushytop]

He coulda doid. It was just an elaborate Hollywood wasn't it?

Sometimes one has to use drama for greater effect darling... I think the relevant term is 'dramatic' effect.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

And can we stop calling it a war dance like it's some sort of threat? Haka's are there own thing, used as a challenge yes but also in celebration, as a welcome to honoured guest and any number of other reasons, ka mate tells the story of a chief escaping his pursuers," ka mate ka Ora " means " i may die, I may live" hardly a threat

Best response I've ever seen was the welsh refusing to walk away at the end, just stared the ABs down, everyone I watched with loved it!

 

[bushytop]

And can we stop calling it a war dance like it's some sort of threat? Haka's are there own thing, used as a challenge yes but also in celebration, as a welcome to honoured guest and any number of other reasons, ka mate tells the story of a chief escaping his pursuers," ka mate ka Ora " means " i may die, I may live" hardly a threat

Now we're getting somewhere... I mentioned the term 'lost in translation' earlier in the thread.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

Encouraging for the rest of the world, both teams looking very vulnerable.

Both teams are very fresh; basically first game of the season for these teams.

More or less, to be honest. ABs were very dominant in the second half (71% to 29% in terms of territory possession, I believe) and certainly bombed a try when they had that scrum in the last 6 or 7 minutes, 5 m out from Bokk's try line. Not to mention that Barrett left more points on the park than Pollard.

Just some random thoughts:

- both teams looked to be somehow inferior to their 2015 RC/RWC versions;
- Retallick's injury is a huge scare for ABs and I really, really hope he will be available for the RWC;
- Mo'unga at 10 and Barrett at 15 experiment went down pretty well (in my view better than Barrett at 10 and DMac at 15), but both Ben Smith and especially Rieko Ioane were too quiet on the wings;
- Frizzell played well at 6, but one of Hansen's problems post 2015 is that no new Kaino could be found;
- Too bad McKenzie is no longer a bench option, could have really set the last 20 minutes on fire;
- Dan Coles added a spark to the ABs attack and I wonder who would be better to start at 2;
- Jack Goodhue's second-half charges were dangerous and I felt like he partnered well with SBW. I'd still use the Crusaders midfield combo though;
- Aaron Smith's habit of wasting a couple of seconds before cycling the ball, in order to show to the referee whatever kind of supposed infringement of the other side, became increasingly and alarmingly annoying;
- Kolbe was outstanding, I don't know if Habana had that kind of pace when he was in his prime.

I agree re Aaron, it is bloody annoying when he does that, his job is to clear the swearing ball

 

[Kiwiwomble]

I can't understand why Mo'unga isn't taking the kicks at goal... he is a much better goalkicker!

I said the same thing and the guys I was watching with said they'd seen stats going around this week saying BB had better kicking % by the end of super rugby, anyone got those handy?

 

[Derpus]

And can we stop calling it a war dance like it's some sort of threat? Haka's are there own thing, used as a challenge yes but also in celebration, as a welcome to honoured guest and any number of other reasons, ka mate tells the story of a chief escaping his pursuers," ka mate ka Ora " means " i may die, I may live" hardly a threat

Best response I've ever seen was the welsh refusing to walk away at the end, just stared the ABs down, everyone I watched with loved it!

Indeed. The slitting throat motion, screaming, shouting and stomping are all commonly used gestures in a variety of cultures throughout the world to welcome foreigners.

 

[OneBlackEye]

I really don't care about either, but if you can't see the hypocrisy I don't know what to tell you

I can see the hypocrisy because you're comparing two stereotypes to suit your narrative:

1 All New Zealanders are precious about the haka and boo kickers.
2 All Northern hemisphere rugby fans sit in silence to show respect to goal kickers.

I'm sure you've watched enough rugby to know that neither of those things are remotely true.

Most kiwis loved the French response in 2011, the IRB fine had nothing to do with us and most disagreed with it.
Watch Crudens conversion in Ireland in 2013 and tell me about respecting the kicker, you dont get to pick and choose when you're respectful.

Maybe you can see how you also sound hypocritical? Maybe not.

Anyway, who cares? I'm just tired of seeing the same old stereotypes dragged out in these threads. It's as boring as trolling England threads with "arrogant English" memes.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

Indeed. The slitting throat motion, screaming, shouting and stomping are all commonly used gestures in a variety of cultures throughout the world to welcome foreigners.

But it's not a slitting throat motion, its Gesticulating the last breath leaving the body, as in giving my last breath for this cause, but they still changed it to stop before the throat because people became offended before actually doing any research

Is it stomping or is it dancing? One trivialises and one tries to make it scary... it's just something different from another culture people don't like because they don't understand and don't want to understand

And we do use it to welcome people...you might not but hey...everyone's different...we do them to our own teams to welcome them home...exactly the same haka...do you think were threatening our own teams? They are very common at funerals to honour to the person that's passed...once again...not some someone you need to threaten

 

[Kiwiwomble]

Back to the game, Those are some pretty telling stats

 

[BobbyM]

I agree re Aaron, it is bloody annoying when he does that, his job is to clear the swearing ball

Does this mean that we think our first choice 9 isn't settled?

But it's not a slitting throat motion, its Gesticulating the last breath leaving the body, as in giving my last breath for this cause, but they still changed it to stop before the throat because people became offended before actually doing any research

Is it stomping or is it dancing? One trivialises and one tries to make it scary... it's just something different from another culture people don't like because they don't understand and don't want to understand

And we do use it to welcome people...you might not but hey...everyone's different...we do them to our own teams to welcome them home...exactly the same haka...do you think were threatening our own teams? They are very common at funerals to honour to the person that's passed...once again...not some someone you need to threaten

I have also seen loads of clips from schools when a teacher is retiring or something like that and the pupils will perform one as a thanks for their years of service.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

But it's not a slitting throat motion, its Gesticulating the last breath leaving the body, as in giving my last breath for this cause, but they still changed it to stop before the throat because people became offended before actually doing any research

Is it stomping or is it dancing? One trivialises and one tries to make it scary... it's just something different from another culture people don't like because they don't understand and don't want to understand

And we do use it to welcome people...you might not but hey...everyone's different...we do them to our own teams to welcome them home...exactly the same haka...do you think were threatening our own teams? They are very common at funerals to honour to the person that's passed...once again...not some someone you need to threaten

The onus really isn't on the opposition to do any research when the gesture means a threat to slit someone's throat anywhere else in the world.

It gets called a war dance, has the discussed gesture and all those unsavoury facial expressions, just because it's important and respectful in Maori culture doesn't mean it translates elsewhere.

My view on it is that it's total waste of time, it should be up to the home team whether or not it'll be done (and no one should let them do it playing away) and leave it out of the RWC games. Am I offended by it or do I actively dislike it? Nah, I'd just rather get to the rugby than watch a professionally choreographed dance that isn't all that impressive. No idea if it gives an advantage or not, don't care either.

 

[BobbyM]

View attachment 7259Back to the game, Those are some pretty telling stats

He really was very effective. One of Reiko's least effective displays in an AB shirt.

 

[Jockstap]

Even Ireland making the '8' in Chicago was said to be a sign of disrespect by a few. No normal person cares about the haka, it's a choreographed dance, very Justin Timberlake. It's the preciousness and rules surrounding it that gets criticised, world rugby literally allow a war dance and don't allow the other team do anything in response, it's an obvious double standard.

And yeah it's the same for the Pacific nations but obviously that stems from the haka and rules surrounding it rather than the other way around like.

The idea of them all getting together to practice it is hilarious.