[2018 November Tests] England vs Australia (24/11/18)

[ncurd]

The only thing I'd add to Which Tyler is the difference in attack between Farrell and Ford/Cipriani its not that Farrell isn't capable its that he doesn't do it as often. With Ford/Cips you expect them to create a great attacking play a few times a match. Farrell your lucky if you get 1 or 2 but when you distill it down to highlight reel stuff Farrell looks just as capable when in reality he isn't giving his team the same amount of opportunities per game the other two do.

I still think he's our best option at 12 however.

I do wonder if Ford hadn't gone to pot with his penalty kicking if he'd still be around the team.



Oh yeah on nepotism we'll never know the full story about the influence of Farrell Sr. but it was shocking in the world cup we couldn't decide who our first choice fly half was and suddenly changed it from our last two warm up matches and opening match to out two major games. Still doesn't make any bloody sense. I'd get resting Farrell for Fiji if he was no. 1 but is he was he'd have played France or Ireland....

 

[ncurd]

TBH at the moment the big problem is 12 as Te'o was abysmal. Farrell and Ford would have been far more effective than Farrell and Te'o.

I don't think you'll find many dissenters on this board even if we prefer Ford its not about getting Ford in the team its about getting Te'o out.

 

[McTallshort]

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-...-as-wallabies-candidates-20181125-p50i9k.html

Scott Johnson and Jake White are being linked with the Aussie job. Now White I can understand but Johnson!? Why don't they ask for Andy Robinson as well.

 

[Reiser99]

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-...-as-wallabies-candidates-20181125-p50i9k.html

Scott Johnson and Jake White are being linked with the Aussie job. Now White I can understand but Johnson!? Why don't they ask for Andy Robinson as well.

Less than a year out from the world cup. It would be a brave move, but if he's lost the dressing room is there any alternative? Could well be a case of we might lose with White, but we will lose with Cheika.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I feel bad for Cheika, he absolutely is being made look worse than he is with assistant coaches that were hired due to popularity and a union that can only be described as innovative in the amount of different ways they **** up. The horrendous team attitude doesn't help either.

If you were to give Cheika the reigns of any competent union's international side (UK sides, NZ, Ireland, Argentina once every four years) he'd never drop outside of the top five and be a world cup threat. Great coach with a muck hand.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Oh yeah on nepotism we'll never know the full story about the influence of Farrell Sr. but it was shocking in the world cup we couldn't decide who our first choice fly half was and suddenly changed it from our last two warm up matches and opening match to out two major games. Still doesn't make any bloody sense. I'd get resting Farrell for Fiji if he was no. 1 but is he was he'd have played France or Ireland....

I get the impression we may enter another World Cup not knowing how our no. 1 FH is.

 

[ncurd]

I get the impression we may enter another World Cup not knowing how our no. 1 FH is.

Eh....I think we are fairly settled now EJ seams to be going down the Farrell/Te'o route frustratingly. What I do expect barring injury is our 6N starting 10 will be our RWC one, I'd be amazed if our warm-up game starter for Wales and Ireland doesn't start against Argentina and France and will likely get rollout against either the USA or Tonga (don't expect them to play both).

Backline selection next RWC I'm expecting to be way more stable than it was last time.

 

[McTallshort]

Less than a year out from the world cup. It would be a brave move, but if he's lost the dressing room is there any alternative? Could well be a case of we might lose with White, but we will lose with Cheika.

Well picking White and dropping Cheika would be brave...picking Johnson and dropping Cheika would be very stupid.

 

[Every Time Ref]

Nor is it as strong as others make out.
In other shocking news, humans enjoy hyperbole.

That's literally the most insightful thing I've ever heard.

Eh....I think we are fairly settled now EJ seams to be going down the Farrell/Te'o route frustratingly. What I do expect barring injury is our 6N starting 10 will be our RWC one, I'd be amazed if our warm-up game starter for Wales and Ireland doesn't start against Argentina and France and will likely get rollout against either the USA or Tonga (don't expect them to play both).

Backline selection next RWC I'm expecting to be way more stable than it was last time.

I'd even go so far to say I'd rather not see Ford picked again unril the World Cup is over, because at this stage continuity is probably is more important than nitpicking between players ... except for the fact that Ben Teo is so ******* bad.

I think we just have to cross our fingers EJ's gamble on him works and 6 Nations game time brings him back to form, because on top form he is a decent international player.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Eh....I think we are fairly settled now EJ seams to be going down the Farrell/Te'o route frustratingly. What I do expect barring injury is our 6N starting 10 will be our RWC one, I'd be amazed if our warm-up game starter for Wales and Ireland doesn't start against Argentina and France and will likely get rollout against either the USA or Tonga (don't expect them to play both).

Backline selection next RWC I'm expecting to be way more stable than it was last time.

But we've persisted with Ford up and until now and have suddenly changed. There is a high chance T'eo will be injured come the World Cup meaning more change at 10/12.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

He galvanises his team.

And that's why he's one of the first names on the team sheet. Forget who wears the armband, that's real leadership and it's a massive point of difference.

He's not perfect, and in different ways nor's Ford, nor's Cips. But I know which of those I'd want alongside me in the trenches.

His kicking %'s pretty good, but the thing is that he tends to nail the pressure kicks.

I've always wanted him at 10, but if the best thing for the team is Ford / Faz then I can live with that. With Manu hopefully back and Big Joe now on the scene it might mean that Jones looks beyond Te'o / IC for his power in the backs.

 

[Jimbo]

And that's why he's one of the first names on the team sheet. Forget who wears the armband, that's real leadership and it's a massive point of difference.

He's not perfect, and in different ways nor's Ford, nor's Cips. But I know which of those I'd want alongside me in the trenches.

His kicking %'s pretty good, but the thing is that he tends to nail the pressure kicks.

I've always wanted him at 10, but if the best thing for the team is Ford / Faz then I can live with that. With Manu hopefully back and Big Joe now on the scene it might mean that Jones looks beyond Te'o / IC for his power in the backs.

Couldn't agree more, I see his game management criticised but of the three he is the only one that has proven he can do it on a consistent bases, that's not to say the other two have had the same oppertunity so hard to compare but holding out and winning tight important games he is realistically the only known quantity.

 

[Which Tyler]

Couldn't agree more, I see his game management criticised but of the three he is the only one that has proven he can do it on a consistent bases, that's not to say the other two have had the same oppertunity so hard to compare but holding out and winning tight important games he is realistically the only known quantity.

And that's hyperbole - or do we ignore the historic winning streak? or the fact that Ford/Farrell has been the most successful 10/12 axis for England?
IIRC - Higher win rate than Wilko/Greenwood or Andrews/Carling, for example.

ETA: I have a sudden lack of confidence in my recollection there; I'm sure I read it somewhere from a pro journalist who has easy access to the relevant stat.s - but my 2 minute googling can't find it anywhere.

 

[Nudger]

Eddy has spent the last 3 yrs trying inside centres Burrell Francis Slade loz mallinder
Farrell have I missed any one Farrell has been the temporary solution who has done well I hope teo and manu stay fit

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Eddy has spent the last 3 yrs trying inside centres Burrell Francis Slade loz mallinder
Farrell have I missed any one Farrell has been the temporary solution who has done well I hope teo and manu stay fit

Daly, Manu and Devoto have all also gotten game time there under Jones.

 

[Which Tyler]

Daly, Manu and Devoto have all also gotten game time there under Jones.

Does "sitting on the bench, and staying there" count as game time?

 

[Nudger]

Does "sitting on the bench, and staying there" count as game time?

I think it does as it shows Jones was bringing people into the squad the fact they didn't make the team just shows in his opion(the one that matters)they weren't good enough

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Australia cancel call with White, Scott Johnson for Australia folks!

 

[Which Tyler]

Australia cancel call with White, Scott Johnson for Australia folks!

That'd be hilarious!

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

And that's hyperbole - or do we ignore the historic winning streak?

The winning streak happened, but it's so last year. Also, while the results are there in the record books, they mask that some of the performances were less than convincing.

In 2018:

Ford / Faz: Won - ITA, WAL. Lost - SCO, FRA, RSA x 2

Other Combos: Won - RSA x 2, JAP, AUS Lost -, IRE, NZ (just)

While there are a multitude of other factors at play, Ford / Faz isn't now clearly and obviously our best combo.

Maybe put it to the people - what question would we ask? Perhaps a televised debate?