[2018 6 Nations] Round 5 : England v Ireland (17/03/2018)

[Openside7]

Whilst many good points have been made on a number of issues affecting the performance of the England team, namely, the number of games played each season, the rather insular playing standards of the premiership (breakdown, technical skills and attacks, to name but a few), it is also perhaps worth observing that those countries with the most successful national teams play rugby using the regional team system. This does seem to indicate that it produces a more nationally focussed system, with a more coherent set of standards in terms of international rugby requirements and players who more easily understand each other. Ireland play less, but better quality rugby more often; like New Zealand.
Sadly, the current English chaos is not easily fixed and rather speaks to the fact that the English coaching team have fundamentally got it wrong over the last few years. Now, with just one year to go to the RWC, its all a bit to late. We really need to address the system or the national team will continue to fall short.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Everything hurts... In a good way.

 

[Which Tyler]

Yes, we can't really introduce regional rugby to England, but we can condense the talent, and reduce the workload. If we can double that up with more "development" matches for the wider squads as well, then all to the good.
So reduce the Prem, boost the AWC, introduce hard, fine-able limits on playing time per season

 

[munstermuffin]

Everything hurts... In a good way.

Good Man David Platt

 

[Jimbo]

Whilst many good points have been made on a number of issues affecting the performance of the England team, namely, the number of games played each season, the rather insular playing standards of the premiership (breakdown, technical skills and attacks, to name but a few), it is also perhaps worth observing that those countries with the most successful national teams play rugby using the regional team system. This does seem to indicate that it produces a more nationally focussed system, with a more coherent set of standards in terms of international rugby requirements and players who more easily understand each other. Ireland play less, but better quality rugby more often; like New Zealand.
Sadly, the current English chaos is not easily fixed and rather speaks to the fact that the English coaching team have fundamentally got it wrong over the last few years. Now, with just one year to go to the RWC, its all a bit to late. We really need to address the system or the national team will continue to fall short.

Couldn't agree more, the bulk of the squad should be made up of Wasps, Sarries and Exeter, with a descent Leicester representation.

Would be nice to see some descent changes at SH, doesn't feel like continuing with Care or Young's is progress, although to be fair Young's hasn't really played care has proved he only really cuts it as impact at international level, would be great to see Dan Robson and Velocott involved both have pace to burn and are use to playing high tempo rugby for club which feels like what England's plan kind of is when they are playing well.

Such a shame this won't happen and we will have to continue with the 10, 12 axis as we haven't really given ourselves other options, Ford looks so much better off the bench than he has in any other game.

An on form Manu and Billy really would give us the front foot ball we have been missing, as well as going a long way to stopping opposition on the game line, Manu at 12 would defiantly be an interesting prospect my worry would be how often the ball would get to the outside channels though.

Food for thought.

 

[RoosTah]

Poms finished strong, but it was all too little too late. To be honest, throughout the entire series I've felt England have looked a bit robotic, predictable and lacking in intensity.

It's quite interesting in a lot of ways, as I remember hearing Phil Kearns at an event not long after Eddie was appointed say he thought Eddie would get a couple great years out of England, but that then they'd peter out because all his sides do. Eddie is just too intense, obsessive and relentless and whilst that's energizing for a new team at first, after a while the people around him progressively just get worked into the ground until they've got nothing left to give.

It's unfortunate, as if there was one country his intensity might have been able to be matched by the players longer term, it was Japan - a country where the game was benefiting greatly from his influence until he took up the England job.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I don't see robson as an international 9 TBH, or Vellacott currently.

Both excellent attacking 9's but both need to work on exit games, both could do the Care job of finishing.
You don't need a quick 9 to play high tempo rugby as Laidlaw (Never thought i would use him a a + for attacking rugby) and Murray have shown this year.

 

[dunney77]

I touched him!!!!

 

[Jimbo]

Poms finished strong, but it was all too little too late. To be honest, throughout the entire series I've felt England have looked a bit robotic, predictable and lacking in intensity.

It's quite interesting in a lot of ways, as I remember hearing Phil Kearns at an event not long after Eddie was appointed say he thought Eddie would get a couple great years out of England, but that then they'd peter out because all his sides do. Eddie is just too intense, obsessive and relentless and whilst that's energizing for a new team at first, after a while the people around him progressively just get worked into the ground until they've got nothing left to give.

It's unfortunate, as if there was one country his intensity might have been able to be matched by the players longer term, it was Japan - a country where the game was benefiting greatly from his influence until he took up the England job.

Possibly some of that is the case, clearly he has to take ownership for the selections that caused so many break down issues, but I think too much is being read into the coach, he probably is over working them to some degree but you can't really blame him to the crap showing prem teams have in Europe, I think fans are blaming him for a lot more than is in reality his fault, conversely he has probably received too much credit in the past.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I touched him!!!!

 

[Jimbo]

I don't see robson as an international 9 TBH, or Vellacott currently.

Both excellent attacking 9's but both need to work on exit games, both could do the Care job of finishing.
You don't need a quick 9 to play high tempo rugby as Laidlaw (Never thought i would use him a a + for attacking rugby) and Murray have shown this year.

Maybe some truth both current SH are aging, we haven't capped any youngsters, sounds like your happy with Wiggy, he is the master of exits at club level anyway without change this is really the options we have, I find it slightly strange that u blame Fords performance largely on bad Service, if Robson performed for country like he does club Ford would get super quick ball a lot of the breakdown when we are is possession could be solved with running support lines and the ball being kept alive far less breakdowns in possession, I think a player needs to be given a proper chance before he can really be judged.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Maybe some truth both current SH are aging, we haven't capped any youngsters, sounds like your happy with Wiggy, he is the master of exits at club level anyway without change this is really the options we have, I find it slightly strange that u blame Fords performance largely on bad Service, if Robson performed for country like he does club Ford would get super quick ball a lot of the breakdown when we are is possession could be solved with running support lines and the ball being kept alive far less breakdowns in possession, I think a player needs to be given a proper chance before he can really be judged.

Ageing Youngs is only 28.
Wiggy has shown he can't exit in international level so no it doesn't sound at all like i would be happy with Wiggy.

I don't blame ford's performance largely of the bad service from the 9, I blame it on the forwards making **** all impact giving him backwards ball. (Same with Leicester before a decent forwards coach came in and kicked them up the arse).
I blame the 9 for not being able to take the pressure off Farrell and Ford when it comes to the slow ball if a 9 doesn't box kick and generally having zero control on the game.
With Youngs playing around 70% of our clearance kicks in our half came from 9 with May, Watson, Nowell chasing hard, and it allowed us to keep in the game even with a fairly mehish pack.
Robson might work if the back row becomes like Wasps backrow with Young, Thompson, Willis, etc etc types in it though. But Robson behind that pack England had will be pretty useless IMO.

 

[RugbyMarvel]

Maybe some truth both current SH are aging, we haven't capped any youngsters, sounds like your happy with Wiggy, he is the master of exits at club level anyway without change this is really the options we have, I find it slightly strange that u blame Fords performance largely on bad Service, if Robson performed for country like he does club Ford would get super quick ball a lot of the breakdown when we are is possession could be solved with running support lines and the ball being kept alive far less breakdowns in possession, I think a player needs to be given a proper chance before he can really be judged.

It doesn't matter who is at scrum half, if your pack are on the back foot then your fly half is never getting quick service.

If the pack is going forwards, Robson potentially could offer something different in that he does like a dart and runs support lines. Deserves a shot but wouldn't place loads of expectation upon him.

 

[Scotty]

Robson is great if we are going forward as he his a great support runner often running offside waiting for the break, where as vellacot is great at spotting the gap and accelerating towards it either breaking through or creating space, though not sure which i prefer tbh

 

[Jimbo]

Robson is great if we are going forward as he his a great support runner often running offside waiting for the break, where as vellacot is great at spotting the gap and accelerating towards it either breaking through or creating space, though not sure which i prefer tbh

Both very useful players to have around if u have a genuine running threat at 9 it gives the defence something else to think about, they are less likely to compete so hard at the breakdown due to concerns of failing and being exposed at the fringes, if the scum half arrives at the breakdown quicker there is less time for opposition to compete admitably they might find they have to get involved in the ruck sometimes themselves there is certainly going to be times where they can get there and get the ball away, the Laws have changed it's about time new thoughts to best utalising the changes come in, having a dominant pack always helps massively but I believe contrary to popular believe a team can win without being dominant in the pack with a proper implimented game plan.

Saying Murray isn't a running threat is really not a counter argument, u don't need to try and copy a team but be better at it than them, develop your own style.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Yet embarrassing for them. Sub standard domestic league.

Ur Mom gay + Lemons

Did I mention Europe? The fact sides don't put out their top players in the Pro14 is purely so they can dominate Europe. I know that, you know that, they know that, we all know that.

A league that provides it's fans with great entertainment, has good attendance relative to the size of the cites it's games are in, hasn't had a repeat winner for three years and is optimal for Euro and international competition. Don't hate cuz you ain't bro!

Congratulations, deserved win and championship.

If you don't mind me asking the Irish here, and i understand if this might come across as unsympathetic, but i am sincerely curious: given Ireland's history and the fact that we have a WC next year, has the thought of "peaking too early" crossed your mind?

I don't think we've peaked, I was even hugely impressed by Carbery yesterday. We definitely have areas to improve.

 

[Jimbo]

Ageing Youngs is only 28.
Wiggy has shown he can't exit in international level so no it doesn't sound at all like i would be happy with Wiggy.

I stand corrected I thought Young's and care were closer in age didn't realise Young's was only 28.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Geodran Murphy saying on Radio that Irelands central contract gives them a big advantage.

Obviously no **** sherlock, but since he is quite high up in Tigers, makes you wonder what clubs might go for it?
If it was written that the RFU couldn't make a player move if they didn't want to and from a contract POV it just restricted the game time I could see a few clubs going for it if it meant freeing up more cap space.

The big opposition would prob be from Sugar daddies and also maybe the lower represented clubs.

 

[Scotty]

So yes looking now with all the same results but no bp.

Ireland 10
Wales 6
Scotland 6
France 4
England 4
Italy 0

Hmmm so yes yet again BPs made zero difference.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Geodran Murphy saying on Radio that Irelands central contract gives them a big advantage.

Obviously no **** sherlock, but since he is quite high up in Tigers, makes you wonder what clubs might go for it?
If it was written that the RFU couldn't make a player move if they didn't want to and from a contract POV it just restricted the game time I could see a few clubs going for it if it meant freeing up more cap space.

The big opposition would prob be from Sugar daddies and also maybe the lower represented clubs.

The whole league structure over here is a ******* mess.

All levels of rugby would be better off using a system based off the NFL/NZ structure.

I genuinely think almost every single element of English/UK rugby could be improved with an overhaul.