[2017 Rugby Championship] Round 2: New Zealand v Australia (26/08/2017)

[mania]

Nigel Owens- I was happy with his performance.

agree. nigel had an awesome game. i enjoy the way owens runs a game. respectful polite and on point.

 

[Larksea]

Was an excellent performance from the Wallabies, they will surely be disappointed as they clearly want to win games but i'm sure once they sit down and soak things in they will feel good about the performance and believe if they keep playing like that they have a chance to compete with and maybe even beat the Springboks which would have seemed unlikely a couple of weeks ago.

But I'm focusing on the AB's again and I think it was a very positive performance. The reality is this is a side with a number of young, new players and untried combinations.

To me fullback is such a critical position, I think I used to view 7 and 10 as the most pivotal positions. I think with the game the way it is now 15 is right up there too. McKenzie has had a solid start to test footy. Sure he has made a couple of mistakes but I think you can afford a 21-22 year old a couple in his first few tests. he gets stuck in and he is a constant threat. Solid start to test rugby and he will only get better once the combinations develop. I really hope they stick with him now Ben Smith goes on leave. I expect Dagg to come in at 14 and play a similar role to what Ben Smith has been doing.

I dont think you can be too hard on dmac for the intercept, looking at the replay when he got the ball and looked to pass Folau was quite far back and the overlap was on. It did look very much like a set play too. It was just a brilliant play by Folau and also very risky, if he had missed it there was huge amounts of space and the AB's would have had basically 2 on 0 overlap.

Ioane has been excellent these two games, 20 year old winger. has looked deadly whenever he had even just a little space and has made an important habit of scoring trys. I would still like to see him hunt for a bit more work when the ball hasn't come his way. try and pop up in parts of the field the opposition aren't expecting.

Squire has been very good in the absence of Kaino, one of my main review points from the Lions series was that maybe Kaino isn't our best option at 6 anymore. Squire has kinda come from nowhere to initially be a surprise selection then ultimately now potentially be our #1 blindside. Only real weakness so far has been that he has a habit of picking up injuries.

Interestingly my other points were that Franks looks well below par and overworked, maybe Crockett isn't the best 2nd loose head prop anymore plus the obvious we need a better option at 11 than Savea. For one reason or another all those players were missing from this game so we got a look at other options.

Laulala looks the goods. he will need to focus on improving his workrate, accuracy and positioning on defense but he has proven to be a very good scrummager at test level and is a pretty good ball carrying option. I was kinda surprised he didn't get a more immediate recall this year considering how good he was for the AB's in 2015 and his Solid Chiefs form. The Coaches do seem like they still have a few things they want Laulala to improve on. Probably mostly in tight and defense.

The Scrum was insane considering this was Coles first test back in so long. I dont know if I would consider Coles and elite scriummaging hooker, its not really the area which is seen as his strength because hes not big for a hooker and his strength has really been his speed, workrate and accuracy. But this back was very powerful. Taylor has been solid and hes proven to be a very useful test hooker but the pack is just so much better with Coles there, we missed him in the lions series. I am of the opinion that we should manage Coles carefully for the rest of the year to make sure he gets through ok and has a proper off season to recover even more. Any of these guys who are under head injury clouds it feels like they are constantly just one hit away from another long stint on the sidelines. Ideally you would say ok the lions series is over, you have had head injury issues here on out this year its just tests matches and hes too important for 2019... So take the rest of the year off.

I really think Kane Hames can develop into a good test loosehead, didn't really see much from him in this game other than giving away a silly penalty when he came on. he does need more discipline and composure but he can scrum and he get things done around the field. I do like the look of daniel lienert-brown hes solid and almost like an extra flanker around the field he is so mobile and has great skills. Maybe just needs to bulk up a bit and be a bit stronger at scrum time.

Our midfield is still very unsettled. SBW hasn't put together a complete game yet for the AB's since his return from 7's & injury. Really injuries & suspensions have prevented us running a consistent combination. SBW had a shocking start to this game which wasn't all his fault. interestingly when he came back on at the end for Crotty he made some decisive plays. Just some subtle plays/runs/tackles that were critical to the AB's finally getting some cohesion and continuity which enabled them to score those last 2 trys. ALB has been excellent off the bench. I really think we have truly great quartet of midfielders in SBW, crotty, ALB & Laumape. Easily the best looking options since nonu and Smith left. shame about Ngatai's last couple of years hopefully he continues his recovery and is back to his best next season, he is another player I think would benefit more right now from a long off season and a proper pre-season for next year than more Rugby.

I think the reality is there is a lot of room for improvement in this team, a lot of potential left to be found. I think these last two tests were a really good start on the way to finding some of that potential. We may see it come through towards the end of TRC or during the EOY Tour.

 

[User1245]

It's not that odd when you think about it - Australian Football and Rugby League have dominated Australia's two biggest population and cultural centres (Melbourne and Sydney) for 100 years+ years and they've been professional pretty well the entire time. Rugby has been about in its enclaves in chunks of Sydney and Brisbane, but it's underlying developmental infrastructure has never been close to what the NRL or AFL have here. What's more, both those competitions have 16 and 18 teams and a tonne more TV money, meaning they have a heap more developmental pathways for eager players. Meanwhile, Union stated off with 3 pro teams, grew to 5 and couldn't even handle that, so they're back to 4.

The problems with Rugby is manifold in a brutally competitive sports market like Australia's, but in a funny sort of way it's greatest strength - it's international appeal - has probably hurt the game in the long term. This isn't anything to do with the Wallabies though; it's super rugby. Super Rugby being split across 3 continents initially and then 5 puts it at a severe disadvantage to the NRL and AFL when it comes to keeping the public interest - especially considering Union has been exclusively pay TV only (apart from Wallabies tests) here since its inception.

Why? Because half the games are on in the middle of the night, leaving SR a grand total of 2 days to garner prime time viewers whilst the AFL and NRL dominate the airways with their free to air TV product that is on prime time 4 days a week. It's because of this that local broadcasters have been progressively spending LESS on Union here, whilst they dish out ever more for the NRL and AFL.



It's not quite the same... In Ireland, you've got the GAA with hurling and Gaelic Footy, but it's all amateur and not on the scale it is here

Sydney has 9 NRL teams, 2 AFL teams, a Super Rugby team and 2 soccer clubs. Meanwhile, Melbourne have 9 AFL clubs, an NRL club, 2 soccer clubs (that play in the summer to be fair) and a Super Rugby side. Add to that you also have the Big Bash League in cricket, which creeps into the footy code preseasons.

Both markets are saturated with sport in a way that nowhere in Europe is to my knowledge.

Spot on. Now that I stay in Aussie I get it. I didn't get it while I stayed in SA as you can comfortably watch every game in that timezone. I remember starting our braais at lunchtime and there would be a match on from then until 7pm every Saturday. It was fantastic.
In its current format Super Rugby will keep Rugby Union in Australia as a niche sport. The timezones differences is pushing away mainstream support. Heck it's already started losing my support. In my opinion Super Rugby is not good for Australian rugby, more specifically travelling to SA.

I was surprised at the low profile of Union when I moved here considering the Wallabies are a top team on the international stage. In that regard I tip my hat to them for doing what they've done.

 

[InsaneAsylum]

Now that is a game of rugby. I don't mind losing when we play like that.

Our big names stood up, Genia, Beale, Folau and McMahon and Hooper weren't bad either. Foley really needs to work on his kicking, I'm not saying we would have won but it would have added to the score board pressure towards the end. Foley has stabbing his kicks all night and not following through, hence he was dragging his kicks.

 

[InsaneAsylum]

I saw it off his hand to his knee and then forward. In any case, it didn't matter because the ball was illegally scooped out of the scrum anyway (the No. 8 is not allowed to reach into the second row to pull the ball out while still bound with his other arm. The ball has to be at his feet).



Baa! Baa! Baa! (that's the sound of an Irishman still bleating about something that happened 12 years ago)

This was NOT A TACKLE!!! Hooper was lying all over the top of Retallick and on the wrong side of a ruck (illegal in itself on two counts). Retallick had every right to try to get up.

It was actually Ned Hanigan involved in the incident with Retallick, not Hooper

 

[RoosTah]

Spot on. Now that I stay in Aussie I get it. I didn't get it while I stayed in SA as you can comfortably watch every game in that timezone. I remember starting our braais at lunchtime and there would be a match on from then until 7pm every Saturday. It was fantastic.
In its current format Super Rugby will keep Rugby Union in Australia as a niche sport. The timezones differences is pushing away mainstream support. Heck it's already started losing my support. In my opinion Super Rugby is not good for Australian rugby, more specifically travelling to SA.

I was surprised at the low profile of Union when I moved here considering the Wallabies are a top team on the international stage. In that regard I tip my hat to them for doing what they've done.

Cheers Steveo - Always interesting to get the view of a South African who's living here.

Being up in Brisbane you'd have now become accustomed to how NRL mad they are and how the entire state goes nuts for State of Origin for months every year - a series that sucks even more oxygen out of other sports air time in NSW and Qld. But at least in Sydney and Brisbane Rugby has some profile - you head to Melbourne or Adelaide and it might as well not exist. It was getting better in Perth, but that's all gone now.

 

[Five Meters Out]

Wallabies and AB's have given us some great games over the past 20 years of so and this was another of those. Had it all really and the mistakes etc only went to contribute to that.
In that last play the Wallaby marking up on Reid (I think it was Foley) only had eyes for the ball and didn't see Reid change his line. Once the pass reached Reid it was too late to correct, the defender didn't even get a hand on him. It was a rooky error and it cost Aussie the Test match.

 

[RoosTah]

Wallabies and AB's have given us some great games over the past 20 years of so and this was another of those. Had it all really and the mistakes etc only went to contribute to that.
In that last play the Wallaby marking up on Reid (I think it was Foley) only had eyes for the ball and didn't see Reid change his line. Once the pass reached Reid it was too late to correct, the defender didn't even get a hand on him. It was a rooky error and it cost Aussie the Test match.

The worst rookie error they were guilty of was failing to take the kick off - the ABs are great at regathering, but our boys need to be good enough to catch them at this level.

 

[Larksea]

yeah, the AB's do focus on restarts and many varied plays at the kickoff. But in that "do or die" situation it should have been very predictable that Read would be the target, he is excellent at restarts. And the kick was spot on too. its not easy to take a kick that good with read contesting it hard.

some big ups to the likes of Sopoaga and Perenara. really good impact towards the end, Scott Barrett too. Sopoaga has been a little underfire in NZ but he was very impressive in this game. he does seem to have worked on his defense too.

 

[smartcooky]

For mr Cheika and all those who thought more should have been made of the Retallick incident...

1. He hasn't been cited (so it didn't meet the Red Card threshold)

2. He hasn't been given a Citing Commissioner warning (so it didn't meet the Yellow Card threshold either)

And that gentlemen is that!

 

[mania]

For mr Cheika and all those who thought more should have been made of the Retallick incident...

1. He hasn't been cited (so it didn't meet the Red Card threshold)

2. He hasn't been given a Citing Commissioner warning (so it didn't meet the Yellow Card threshold either)

And that gentlemen is that!

3. Sorry cheika this isn't why WBs lost.

 

[RoosTah]

For mr Cheika and all those who thought more should have been made of the Retallick incident...

1. He hasn't been cited (so it didn't meet the Red Card threshold)

2. He hasn't been given a Citing Commissioner warning (so it didn't meet the Yellow Card threshold either)

And that gentlemen is that!

Mate - never argued that the ruling was wrong, just that it's a silly system where that's ok by the rules but you get sent off for merely being in the vicinity of a bloke jumping to catch a ball. As I said - to me the issue is that they send you off for bloody everything now, so it just seems almost amusing that the rules just rationalise something like this away.

Put it another way - SBW's red card in the test struck me as ridiculous because the player is falling and SBW actually just looks like he's bracing himself. I didn't see anything intentional in it and thought it was just tough luck, yet because they ruled intent he was off for the game and subsequently that allowed the Lions to win.

That play was less dangerous than dumping a guy on his head, so I just struggle to understand how the game can be so soft and unwavering in punishments for something like the SBW, but utterly cavalier and indifferent to a potential neck breaker because it's an "incident" (still can't understand how it's just an incident when he clearly has his arm between his legs).

If this were the NRL I'd have zero issues because you pretty well can't get sent off - it's more the way they rule others that makes me think World Rugby must be ******* retarded or something.

 

[The Jones Boy]

I just watched the game again.
Some of the tries from this game could go on to a 'best of' reel.
Genia's break from the back of a destroyed scrum was remarkable. The AB forwards must have been wondering how did that happen? They were busy absolutely disintegrating the Wallaby scrum. They must have got up just in time to see Foley scampering over.

The winning try was sublime. The re-gathering and the handling were poetry in rugby motion.

When a competition produces cracking games like this you know it's doing something right.

If the Wallabies can keep this kind of intensity, belief and form they will do well in the rest of the tournament.

 

[smartcooky]

Mate - never argued that the ruling was wrong, just that it's a silly system where that's ok by the rules but you get sent off for merely being in the vicinity of a bloke jumping to catch a ball. As I said - to me the issue is that they send you off for bloody everything now, so it just seems almost amusing that the rules just rationalise something like this away.

Put it another way - SBW's red card in the test struck me as ridiculous because the player is falling and SBW actually just looks like he's bracing himself. I didn't see anything intentional in it and thought it was just tough luck, yet because they ruled intent he was off for the game and subsequently that allowed the Lions to win.

That play was less dangerous than dumping a guy on his head, so I just struggle to understand how the game can be so soft and unwavering in punishments for something like the SBW, but utterly cavalier and indifferent to a potential neck breaker because it's an "incident" (still can't understand how it's just an incident when he clearly has his arm between his legs).

If this were the NRL I'd have zero issues because you pretty well can't get sent off - it's more the way they rule others that makes me think World Rugby must be ******* retarded or something.

I couldn't agree more. While SBW was a definite red card in the context of the modern game, it wouldn't have been even three or four years ago.

IMO, the sending off of players has been "cheapened" (for the want of a better word). There was a time when if you got sent off, it was for something really bad. Best examples I can think of are from Rugby League, but acts like these could easily apply to Union

 

[Icemn]

what a game of footy...

welcome back Aussies... now that is how you play, from now on that is how you play...

The fans can be proud... just a pitty the stadium maintenance staff turned on the Aircons when Foley was attempting his goalkicks +-10 points he missed?

i have been saying this for some time but I'm not impressed with SBW, they need to start Crotty and ALB, play SBW off the bench as an impact player

 

[mania]

i have been saying this for some time but I'm not impressed with SBW, they need to start Crotty and ALB, play SBW off the bench as an impact player

im an sbw fan but beale owned him that game. everytime sbw tried to muscle up; beale was there to outmuscle or outsmart him. best game ive seen beale play

 

[mania]

Our big names stood up.

i cant believe how well beale played. motm imo
he was amazing. made sbw look like a rookie. completely and absolutely owned him.
genia is just pure class. no nonsense, no bs, no useless chatter just all business...and tries
mcmahon, wow what a loss to aus !! a bit rank that cheika is only now saying they want to keep him. mcmahons been on the cusp for a couple years

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

I think both ALB and SBW are in a wee slump. Inconsistency is excusable for ALB given his youth but SBW needs a performance soon. I can see a top side knocking off the ABs if they don't get the centres firing again soon. They are also shifting a serious amount of points against an Oz side that was a bit toothless against Scotland and Italy.

Ioane outstanding again though, what a find to have up your sleeve for when Julian dropped in form. He'll be playing wing for years if he stays healthy.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

i cant believe how well beale played. motm imo
he was amazing. made sbw look like a rookie. completely and absolutely owned him.
genia is just pure class. no nonsense, no bs, no useless chatter just all business...and tries
mcmahon, wow what a loss to aus !! a bit rank that cheika is only now saying they want to keep him. mcmahons been on the cusp for a couple years

In fairness Cheika apparently sat down with him one to one a while back to try and convince him to stay and he's only just turned 23 so he's only just hitting the age when he'd hen suitable for internationals. Utterly grim that the Top League can outbid the Oz sides for a top talent.

http://www.planetrugby.com/news/mcmahon-on-his-way-to-japan/

Not sure how some players do SR plus Top League, and others Top League only. Confusing.

 

[Larksea]

watched the last 20min again last night, it was just as good the 2nd time lol

Was interesting the trys the Aussies scored. I think I need to watch them again still, I know the AB's will analyze it till Feijoa's are back in season its unlike the AB defense to let so many in and there was a theme to them.

Beales try was brilliant, it was built off a long drive. Phases and accuracy.
Folau's try was a mix of luck and individual brilliance. I find it hard to blame McKenzie, it looked like a set play, the overlap was on and at the point McKenzie was passing, Folau was actually well back, he just anticipated it perfectly. Could have happened to anyone. And if Folau missed it most likely would have been a try at the other end. AB's had a 2 man overlap and with folau up they had no one at the back.
Then interestingly for me there were 3 trys(?) that were basically based on poor AB defense around the ruck and scrum. The first was a tough one, Sam Cane had just had a bad head knock which eventually took him out of the game and he was the one that missed the tackle or wasn't defending how/where he should have. Tough to blame Cane considering the situation, just unlucky...
Another was a similar miss by Savea but he didn't have the same excuse Cane had. He was the first defender and left a big whole for Genia to exploit, I think there were also a group of 3-4 AB forwards who drove up the right of the ruck leaving the left a bit exposed, which didn't help.

there were issues defending around the ruck, mostly defending Genia. can point the finger, maybe Smith should have paid more attention to defending Genia. The reality is I dont think Genia has looked that dangerous in a long time. The AB's probably didn't do enough to identify the threat and adjust during the game.