[2017 Rugby Championship] Round 2: New Zealand v Australia (26/08/2017)

[Ospervat]

Whale, Oil, Beef, Hooked.

Possibly game of the decade. 10 Try feast. The game that keeps on giving. Welcome back Australia.

The difference - Bernard Foley. 11 points missed. Dunedin need to send him the bill for the repainting.

 

[RedruthRFC]

Add to that, in the 90s Rugby League had the Super League war, which fractured the game and sent it back years along with a tonne of fans - many of whom went straight to Union. The NRL has since recovered in a massive way and is bigger than it's ever been before - massively dwarfing rugby.

Thanks, TBH I didn't know much about the Super League war and hadn't considered it in my thought process. Re: the advent of professionalism, Australia were still good enough to make the 2003 RWC final and managed albeit truncated) an (albeit truncated) Tri Nations win as recently as 2011 though. I think it's fair to say that the strength of the national side has been in decline since the early 2000s though.

On the other hand, it seems strange that the ARU find themselves worse equipped to compete with league and Aussie rules now that they're able to offer payments to players like the sports that they were successful in competing with did. Maybe this says that resources were being used better (investment in development / marketing?) in the amateur days, not that it would be feasible to return to that model.

To be honest, your argument here is a little like me asking why England haven't won a major Rugby League tournament in 40+ years.

Rugby Union is a "major winter sport" in Australia in the same way Rugby League is a major winter sport in England. In short, it's not. In fact Union in Australia is probably behind British rugby league these days in terms of its standing in the country... they've just cut a team from Super rugby here, the money is drying up and no one goes to the games or watches it on TV.

That makes more sense to me. I suppose that while admitting this would provide a better explanation for the decline in performance, but would be a bit of a shocking admission on for a governing body to make.

I don't have access to viewing or participation figures in either country. Bizarrely, given the lack of sport on free to air TV, I suspect that darts might be England's number two sport in terms of viewing figures! I'm pretty sure it is second in Sky Sports' figures. While England only has one major winter sport, union does have the advantage over Australia in that (I believe) it's the number one proper contact sport and to a great extent relies on different athletes to soccer. I'm sure that there are plenty of round ball players who would have made fine union players, but not many as forwards.

If there's another major nation that compares to Australia, it would be Ireland given the popularity of GAA, but I don't know enough about the sporting landscape there to know how valid this comparison would be.

 

[RoosTah]

Thanks, TBH I didn't know much about the Super League war and hadn't considered it in my thought process. Re: the advent of professionalism, Australia were still good enough to make the 2003 RWC final and managed albeit truncated) an (albeit truncated) Tri Nations win as recently as 2011 though. I think it's fair to say that the strength of the national side has been in decline since the early 2000s though.

On the other hand, it seems strange that the ARU find themselves worse equipped to compete with league and Aussie rules now that they're able to offer payments to players like the sports that they were successful in competing with did. Maybe this says that resources were being used better (investment in development / marketing?) in the amateur days, not that it would be feasible to return to that model.

It's not that odd when you think about it - Australian Football and Rugby League have dominated Australia's two biggest population and cultural centres (Melbourne and Sydney) for 100 years+ years and they've been professional pretty well the entire time. Rugby has been about in its enclaves in chunks of Sydney and Brisbane, but it's underlying developmental infrastructure has never been close to what the NRL or AFL have here. What's more, both those competitions have 16 and 18 teams and a tonne more TV money, meaning they have a heap more developmental pathways for eager players. Meanwhile, Union stated off with 3 pro teams, grew to 5 and couldn't even handle that, so they're back to 4.

The problems with Rugby is manifold in a brutally competitive sports market like Australia's, but in a funny sort of way it's greatest strength - it's international appeal - has probably hurt the game in the long term. This isn't anything to do with the Wallabies though; it's super rugby. Super Rugby being split across 3 continents initially and then 5 puts it at a severe disadvantage to the NRL and AFL when it comes to keeping the public interest - especially considering Union has been exclusively pay TV only (apart from Wallabies tests) here since its inception.

Why? Because half the games are on in the middle of the night, leaving SR a grand total of 2 days to garner prime time viewers whilst the AFL and NRL dominate the airways with their free to air TV product that is on prime time 4 days a week. It's because of this that local broadcasters have been progressively spending LESS on Union here, whilst they dish out ever more for the NRL and AFL.

If there's another major nation that compares to Australia, it would be Ireland given the popularity of GAA, but I don't know enough about the sporting landscape there to know how valid this comparison would be.

It's not quite the same... In Ireland, you've got the GAA with hurling and Gaelic Footy, but it's all amateur and not on the scale it is here

Sydney has 9 NRL teams, 2 AFL teams, a Super Rugby team and 2 soccer clubs. Meanwhile, Melbourne have 9 AFL clubs, an NRL club, 2 soccer clubs (that play in the summer to be fair) and a Super Rugby side. Add to that you also have the Big Bash League in cricket, which creeps into the footy code preseasons.

Both markets are saturated with sport in a way that nowhere in Europe is to my knowledge.

 

[The Jones Boy]

I had to work today and I missed a cracker of a test match.
Just watched the replay.
Aussie really came to play today and they looked a completely different team to last week.
Talk about chalk and cheese.
A dangerously wild pass saw Folau away fro an easy intercept try, then Hooper slipped out of Reads tavkle and wriggled over and the All Blacks were playing catch up.
Basic mistakes were punished by the Wallabies today and they looked very alive and alert.
Genia's knock on looked like a dead set knock on but the ref had a much better angle than me and the TMO also said the ball hit the knee not the hand so that is good enough for me.
To get a try from that disintegrating scrum was a small miracle.

Young McKenzie did very well to hold off a tackle and take a second tackle and then to offload the ball to his winger. That was pure class and just what was needed to get the lead back at an important time of the game. Thats the kind of play that sets a player up for an All Black career.

Beauden Barrett, what can you say, breath taking rugby from a bloke so fast on his feet and in his rugby brain he can conjure miracles out of nothing.
His kicking game is really coming together now, he kept us in the hunt and then secured the points after an awesome move and interchange with different players.
For my money he is the best rugby player in the world today.
What a phenomonon.

Hats off to Aussie, they played a classy game of rugby today and really pushed the AB's at home.
Brilliant effort.
Phew!
That was a near thing.

 

[Gavin]

I think a lot of 50/50 stuff went the Wallabies way tonight.

1. Genia definitely knocked the ball on from the back of a scrum that led to a Wallaby try.

Sorry but that Genia break was pretty conclusive that the ball came off his knee in the build up to the Foley try.

The Retallick incident was inconclusive which is why he got the benefit of the doubt.

Calling it a 'rugby incident' is like saying the BOD tackle was a 'rugby incident'

 

[smartcooky]

Sorry but that Genia break was pretty co conclusive that the ball came off his knee in the build up to the Foley try.

I saw it off his hand to his knee and then forward. In any case, it didn't matter because the ball was illegally scooped out of the scrum anyway (the No. 8 is not allowed to reach into the second row to pull the ball out while still bound with his other arm. The ball has to be at his feet).

The Retallick incident was inconclusive which is why he got the benefit of the doubt.

Calling it a 'rugby incident' is like saying the BOD tackle was a 'rugby incident'

Baa! Baa! Baa! (that's the sound of an Irishman still bleating about something that happened 12 years ago)

This was NOT A TACKLE!!! Hooper was lying all over the top of Retallick and on the wrong side of a ruck (illegal in itself on two counts). Retallick had every right to try to get up.

 

[Gavin]

I saw it off his hand to his knee and then forward. In any case, it didn't matter because the ball was illegally scooped out of the scrum anyway (the No. 8 is not allowed to reach into the second row to pull the ball out while still bound with his other arm. The ball has to be at his feet).

Then you need your eyes tested because everyone else saw the first contact with Genia's knee.

Baa! Baa! Baa! (that's the sound of an Irishman still bleating about something that happened 12 years ago)

This was NOT A TACKLE!!! Hooper was lying all over the top of Retallick and on the wrong side of a ruck (illegal in itself on two counts). Retallick had every right to try to get up.

The BOD incident was not a tackle either because he did not have the ball. I believe both incidents are similar because they involved a player who did not have the ball and was put on their head by a NZ player.

 

[smartcooky]

Baa! Baa! Baa!

 

[Shimano]

Is it possible for a day to go by withut some bloody irish poster bleeting about crybaby odriscoll?

Genia might not have touched the ball - fiftyfifty to me - but there is no way that the retllick thing was anything other that two guys in a tangle both tryin to get to their feet.

 

[Gavin]

Is it possible for a day to go by withut some bloody irish poster bleeting about crybaby odriscoll?

When you refer to an incident which the majority of the rugby world, though not those living in New Zealand surprisingly, think was completely unacceptable and resulted in a horrendous injury to a player, as a 'crybaby', then your post is invalid and should not be considered when critically discussing the situation.

Many NZ supporters refer to the BOD event as a 'rugby incident', so it was merely a comparison for comparisons sake.

Genia might not have touched the ball - fiftyfifty to me - but there is no way that the retllick thing was anything other that two guys in a tangle both tryin to get to their feet.

Case in point - a player is responsible for the well-being of other players, so how is this any different to two players contesting for a ball in the air? Both players were getting up for a situation when neither has the ball and because of it the Australian player landed on his head.

 

[squirrel]

Thought the Wallabies were desperately unlucky, Read knocked the ball on for the last restart but there was noway Nigel was gonna see his precious ABs lose, its a a miracle the Wallabys got so close with Owens as the ref.

 

[smartcooky]

Thought the Wallabies were desperately unlucky, Read knocked the ball on for the last restart but there was noway Nigel was gonna see his precious ABs lose, its a a miracle the Wallabys got so close with Owens as the ref.

What a load of horses cock!

 

[ncurd]

I'd give Aussie more credit, the only areas they were really lacking we scrums and goal kicking

What a huge step up in defence, really impressive

I'll give the Aussies plenty of credit from what I saw. My point still stands though I think any team with good potential can beat this ABs side unlike 22 months ago where they have a nigh on invincible shell which only side at very top their game could beat.

 

[RoosTah]

What a load of horses cock!

Load of horse cock? That sounds like some sort of Asian dish.

 

[Larksea]

IF Owens was so against the wallabies how did he let them give away multiple penalties in their own 22 without even warning them. With the penalty count the way it was a lot of referees would have gone through warnings and started giving out cards. What was the penalty count in the end 14 - 4 or something like that?

I would have liked to see Read put a little more pressure on Owens and just keep reminding him of the penalty count.

Amazing game, the wallabies attack is very impressive. Only way to stop the wallabies was to keep them from getting the ball. Genia was superb.

Really bad start for the AB's SBW with 4 knock on's in 7 min? Not all his fault though the AB's attack was stuttering at the start and it wasn't all his fault. Losing cane so early was a big loss and also to have him give away a try when he was on the field obviously concussed just made things worse.

Amazing for the AB's to come back from 17-0 down. That was some test match...

 

[Brigantine]

Rightly or wrongly, I'm glad the Wallabies weren't given a yellow. It would have been a far less satisfying way to win, and we would have been left wondering.

It might be a different story in Perth.

 

[smartcooky]

Load of horse cock? That sounds like some sort of Asian dish.

Its an expression I picked up from our Unit Warrant Officer at Woodbourne..

"Sgt Cook, that is a load of horse's cock!!"

 

[The Jones Boy]

Its an expression I picked up from our Unit Warrant Officer at Woodbourne..

"Sgt Cook, that is a load of horse's cock!!"

So you have a history of talking a load of horses cock.
That doesn't surprise me.

 

[The Jones Boy]

Nigel Owens- I was happy with his performance.
The game was a running rugby spectacle for the fans as well as the neutrals.
Aussie may have had the rub of the green but it was marginal and someone is going to get that advantage every game. It's how the other team deals with it and gets on with the job.
We got to see how devastating the Wallabies backs can be when they get some luck (the intercept pass and the ball bouncing out of a disintegrating scrum onto Genia's knee) and some possession going forward.
The AB's got through today because they are talented and they believe in their ability to win, to score regardless of the time left on the clock. They backed themselves and Barrett kicked really well unlike his counterpart Foley who left a lot of points on the park. That kept the AB's in touch and allowed them to creep up the scoreboard and mug the Wallabies in the final moments.
The AB's made a lot more mistakes this week.
It's all part of the learning curve.
They are not the finished article but there is still 2 years on the clock before Japan and plenty of places to fight for in the squad.

 

[mania]

I'll give the Aussies plenty of credit from what I saw. My point still stands though I think any team with good potential can beat this ABs side unlike 22 months ago where they have a nigh on invincible shell which only side at very top their game could beat.

yup. as they say in the NFL,any team can beat any other team on any given sunday.
ABs arent gods, theyre human.