[2017 Rugby Championship] Round 1: South Africa v Argentina (19/08/2017)

[pagliaccio_euforico]

If giving me a dislike helps you heal that fragile ego of your, please, do so more often. Happy to help.

And in all those trainings that made you the renouned world class referee that you are today, have you been also told to blab any lie and expect others to take your word for it?

Argentina had not one but 2 players who could have either poached, OR would have had a better shot at stopping him had he lost momentum due to releasing the ball. After that, there was a third player who couldn't reach him either.

no, considering i'm not a world class referee i wouldn't expect others to take my word based on that... but considering i actually pay attention to those things and have talked to guys who have refereed international matches (on this type of play particularly) i'd say that i do in fact know more about these things than you

the dislike was a lifetime achievement award for your aggressive assertions of knowledge on topics you are clueless on

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

But doesn't that pic clearly show Skosan as not being held and no ruck formed? My understanding is he can simply run on as he did. If you want to have a go at the rules I'm with you. Its silly. But as far as my understanding goes Poite actually has it right. I woulnd't put my house on it though.

I'm afraid not. The sequence was the following. He gets tackled, held and released by the tackler. He doesn't release the ball, gets up, goes past another player and then scores.
I chose that picture to show that there were Argentine players close by, which is what our self appointed resident ref claims never happened.

Just to be clear, I am in no way saying you won because of that. Just wanted to show facts after a someone called me out.

the dislike was a lifetime achievement award for your aggressive assertions of knowledge on topics you are clueless on

Coming from the referee who spends more time repeating he's is one online than actually refereeing, i'll take that as a compliment.

And again, take the low hanging fruit. Lift that poor self esteem of yours by giving me another dislike. It's free.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I'm afraid not. The sequence was the following. He gets tackled, held and released by the tackler. He doesn't release the ball, gets up, goes past another player and then scores.
I chose that picture to show that there were Argentine players close by, which is what our self appointed resident ref claims never happened.

Just to be clear, I am in no way saying you won because of that. Just wanted to show facts after a someone called me out.

Not to be contrary but I've now watched that tackle over and over and I can't say I'm convinced he is held. I'm leaning towards the ref's decision as as far as I can tell he goes beyond De la Fuente's reach as he goes to ground. Serfontein and Kolisi obstructs the view of the camera at that point though but I don't think De le Fuente has arms so long and the fact that Skosan is up and off in a single frame and the ref being right there kinda suggests to me that he is fine. Unless the ref intentionally let him go after feeling bad about wrongfully denying Jaco Kriel his try earlier calling a knock on from Skosan wrongly.

That's said its marginal and split second stuff and I don't think anyone from our side would have had gripes if Skosan had been pinged. I'll take though. We've been on the wrong end of Poite's whistle often enough for us to not feel embarrassed over finding favor in one of his questionable calls. I wouldn't rate this as one of his more questionable calls either LOL.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Not to be contrary but I've now watched that tackle over and over and I can't say I'm convinced he is held. I'm leaning towards the ref's decision as as far as I can tell he goes beyond De la Fuente's reach as he goes to ground. Serfontein and Kolisi obstructs the view of the camera at that point though but I don't think De le Fuente has arms so long and the fact that Skosan is up and off in a single frame and the ref being right there kinda suggests to me that he is fine. Unless the ref intentionally let him go after feeling bad about wrongfully denying Jaco Kriel his try earlier calling a knock on from Skosan wrongly.

That's said its marginal and split second stuff and I don't think anyone from our side would have had gripes if Skosan had been pinged. I'll take though. We've been on the wrong end of Poite's whistle often enough for us to not feel embarrassed over finding favor in one of his questionable calls. I wouldn't rate this as one of his more questionable calls either LOL.

The other issue is that Skosan had the ball in one hand, and when he went to ground it seems like he's picking the ball up again. I think the more you watch it the more doubt there is in what happened. I'm inclined to change my verdict on this incident as it happened so fast, and Poite was in the best position to make a call. Sometimes the footage plays tricks on you based on the angles provided.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Reading around I do see most saying Skosan's shouldn't be a try held or not. Goodness, shows what I know.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

The other issue is that Skosan had the ball in one hand, and when he went to ground it seems like he's picking the ball up again. I think the more you watch it the more doubt there is in what happened. I'm inclined to change my verdict on this incident as it happened so fast, and Poite was in the best position to make a call. Sometimes the footage plays tricks on you based on the angles provided.

From the front it looks as though there might be seperation. But it happens so fast and the angles can play tricks. One then has to ask the question if the ball went forward. All I know is I'm happy I'm not a ref. You have to check all that in the space of a breath. Quite literally.

 

[Durbanite]

Seems to me that De la Fuente doesn't complete the tackle, he looses grip as they start going to ground so he wasn't being held during the grounding and we can't say a tackle was completed IMO. Poite should've just used the TMO, and doubly so for his "blue player touched it" call. He's a frustrating ref for a number of reasons, dodgy tryline decisions, soft cards when those who deserve them are ignored, bad breakdown reffing etc etc. He seems to fall apart as the game progresses and can never quite stamp his authority over the game so players run riot, but his communication is a huge handicap. After the PSDT try he said something like "19 try." instead of explaining to the Pumas the assistant ref had called the grounding etc and instead of explaining his interpretation of the law he tends to shout the same phrase over and over after penalising a team. Explaining to a captain why his team is being blown up should not be seen as a luxury, how else can you adapt? SANZAR just love giving the Pumas and Boks the French headache, I'd rather have Barnes. TBF it seems to me Poite has improved his game and communication a considerable amount, but he just looses it once things start getting close. If he took the time to attempt to explain things rather than act like a stubborn child people would feel much less hard done by. At the end of the day though, we can't have our cake and eat it, I'd rather have my dodgy French ref than none at all.

 

[Durbanite]

From the front it looks as though there might be seperation. But it happens so fast and the angles can play tricks. One then has to ask the question if the ball went forward. All I know is I'm happy I'm not a ref. You have to check all that in the space of a breath. Quite literally.

Can you post a link to a video with a front angle? I've only seen it from above in the highlight reels

 

[TRF_heineken]

Seems to me that De la Fuente doesn't complete the tackle, he looses grip as they start going to ground so he wasn't being held during the grounding and we can't say a tackle was completed IMO. Poite should've just used the TMO, and doubly so for his "blue player touched it" call. He's a frustrating ref for a number of reasons, dodgy tryline decisions, soft cards when those who deserve them are ignored, bad breakdown reffing etc etc. He seems to fall apart as the game progresses and can never quite stamp his authority over the game so players run riot, but his communication is a huge handicap. After the PSDT try he said something like "19 try." instead of explaining to the Pumas the assistant ref had called the grounding etc and instead of explaining his interpretation of the law he tends to shout the same phrase over and over after penalising a team. Explaining to a captain why his team is being blown up should not be seen as a luxury, how else can you adapt? SANZAR just love giving the Pumas and Boks the French headache, I'd rather have Barnes. TBF it seems to me Poite has improved his game and communication a considerable amount, but he just looses it once things start getting close. If he took the time to attempt to explain things rather than act like a stubborn child people would feel much less hard done by. At the end of the day though, we can't have our cake and eat it, I'd rather have my dodgy French ref than none at all.

Yeah, it does seem as though De La Fuente didn't complete the tackle as Skosan fell to the ground way past De La Fuente, and De La Fuente didn't hold on to Skosan, so the question is if that is a completed tackle?? Again, even from the highlight's reel, it happens very fast.

Here's the match highlights. This incident is on the 6 mins mark.

 

[Durbanite]

Yeah, it does seem as though De La Fuente didn't complete the tackle as Skosan fell to the ground way past De La Fuente, and De La Fuente didn't hold on to Skosan, so the question is if that is a completed tackle?? Again, even from the highlight's reel, it happens very fast.

Here's the match highlights. This incident is on the 6 mins mark.

Much obliged! I see now what you guys mean about a possible release but mostly it seems to me that Skosan is out of Del la Fuente's reach when he regathered his feet which to me suggests that his momentum did not allow Del la Fuente to maintain his grip. If Skosan was a little bit slower I think he would've been pinged for not releasing the ball as he wouldn't have bounced his way through the line. It's pretty much a glorified ankle tap to my eyes and I'd be interested to see how the TMO would've interpreted it. According to WR "A ball carrier who is not held is not a tackled player and a tackle has not taken place."

 

[TRF_heineken]

Much obliged! I see now what you guys mean about a possible release but mostly it seems to me that Skosan is out of Del la Fuente's reach when he regathered his feet which to me suggests that his momentum did not allow Del la Fuente to maintain his grip. If Skosan was a little bit slower I think he would've been pinged for not releasing the ball as he wouldn't have bounced his way through the line. It's pretty much a glorified ankle tap to my eyes and I'd be interested to see how the TMO would've interpreted it. According to WR "A ball carrier who is not held is not a tackled player and a tackle has not taken place."

That's how I see it too. If we take the ankle tap on Cassiem in this match when he broke through, he could've also gotten up without having to release the ball, but instead he opted for the offload, with the threat of nearby Argies trying to close down the space.

But it seems to me this is something our guys have been practicing? We saw it in the French series too, and most noteworthy has to be the try Andries Coetzee scored in the one test where he also broke the line got tackled and got up again and scored (in that instance he released the ball on the ground and picked it up again). Seems to me they have identified certain teams' players and how they tackle and when there isn't another player to start a ruck.

 

[George Ford]

Patience and resilience paid off for the Boks. The signs of a well coached side.

Nice to see Tuculet get rewk again when trying to frontally tackle xD. Expected result, its the same difference Lions has with Jags.

Next week i think well see a closer match up but another Books win by 10/15.

AC has not won away from home yet. On current form the Boks are favorites, but that travel bogey pits them 2nd.

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

I'm afraid not. The sequence was the following. He gets tackled, held and released by the tackler. He doesn't release the ball, gets up, goes past another player and then scores.
I chose that picture to show that there were Argentine players close by, which is what our self appointed resident ref claims never happened.

Just to be clear, I am in no way saying you won because of that. Just wanted to show facts after a someone called me out.


Coming from the referee who spends more time repeating he's is one online than actually refereeing, i'll take that as a compliment.

And again, take the low hanging fruit. Lift that poor self esteem of yours by giving me another dislike. It's free.

Would it kill you to have an ounce of self awareness?

I'm 75% sure you are a pftcommenter wanna be without the mental stamina to stay in character.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Patience and resilience paid off for the Boks. The signs of a well coached side.



AC has not won away from home yet. On current form the Boks are favorites, but that travel bogey pits them 2nd.

After 2016 I am still hurting. Only remedy for me will be beating Argentina and Aus both home and away and staying close to NZ. Optimistic I know but I won't be happy with anything less. I am not optimistic enough to call for an actual over NZ. Not yet. Don't think we're even close if I'm being honest. We'll worry about the top Euro sides later. I think we're behind there as well I'm afraid. I'm focusing on the RC first as a fan. I'm not joining the (admittedly small) band wagon who say we've turned the corner yet.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

Would it kill you to have an ounce of self awareness?

Self awareness.... considering that's coming from the pewee league ref who brags about it online that line should be next to merriam webster's definition of irony.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

Not to be contrary but I've now watched that tackle over and over and I can't say I'm convinced he is held.

Arg player tackles with both arms and when the knees touch the ground the Argentine player is holding him. He then releases. That's what i see.

I admit i would like to see the angle from the back of the posts (could only find it for the last part of the play), but not only to check the seed of doubt H planted but also for potential knock on.
Again, wouldn't have turned the game around.

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

Self awareness.... considering that's coming from the pewee league ref who brags about it online that line should be next to merriam webster's definition of irony.

sure, if they gave up on their definitions of words they could do that... but that isn't irony

 

[TRF_heineken]

@themole25 & @Cruz_del_Sur ,

Any more personal attacks towards one another, and I'll send you to the bin to cool off for a week.

Stay on topic or don't comment at all.