[2017 Rugby Championship] Round 1: South Africa v Argentina (19/08/2017)

[TRF_heineken]

Venue: Nelson Mandela Bay Stadium, Port Elizabeth
Time: 17:00 CAT (SA, GMT+2)
​

Teams

South Africa: 15 Andries Coetzee, 14 Raymond Rhule, 13 Jesse Kriel, 12 Jan Serfontein, 11 Courtnall Skosan, 10 Elton Jantjies, 9 Ross Cronjé, 8 Uzair Cassiem, 7 Jaco Kriel, 6 Siya Kolisi, 5 Franco Mostert, 4 Eben Etzebeth (captain), 3 Coenie Oosthuizen, 2 Malcolm Marx, 1 Beast Mtawarira

Substitutes: 16 Bongi Mbonambi, 17 Steven Kitshoff, 18 Trevor Nyakane, 19 Pieter-Steph Du Toit, 20 Jean-Luc du Preez, 21 Francois Hougaard, 22 Curwin Bosch, 23 Damian de Allende

Argentina: TBA

 

[Sker]

Heineken, make my day.

Is it a French ref?

 

[TRF_heineken]

Heineken, make my day.

Is it a French ref?

Yes indeed

It's Romain Poite

also, Frans Malherbe and Warren Whiteley has been ruled out of the tournament. Ruan Dreyer has been called up in Malherbe's place.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I saw it was Poite, had a sinking feeling but thought better of commenting on the appointment as I did tell off a few people who commented negatively upon Peyper's appointment for the SR final.

That said we do have an empirical basis to draw off of and say we struggle with Poite at the helm. His 'interpretations' of the break down and scrum laws are a known factor now or at least should be and we should be looking to see if we can't make as much (mis)use of it as I expect the Pumas will.

 

[George Ford]

I saw it was Poite, had a sinking feeling but thought better of commenting on the appointment as I did tell off a few people who commented negatively upon Peyper's appointment for the SR final.

That said we do have an empirical basis to draw off of and say we struggle with Poite at the helm. His 'interpretations' of the break down and scrum laws are a known factor now or at least should be and we should be looking to see if we can't make as much (mis)use of it as I expect the Pumas will.

I think the issue with Poite is the manner in which he communicates with the players on the pitch, English not being his first language being a factor of course. Could quite probably be the reason why things always tend to go astray at the latter stages of the game when intensity rises. That and he seems to crumble under the pressure

 

[Caitlyn Jenner]

things always tend to go astray at the latter stages of the game when intensity rises. That and he seems to crumble under the pressure

Ain't that the truth!

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I think the issue with Poite is the manner in which he communicates with the players on the pitch, English not being his first language being a factor of course. Could quite probably be the reason why things always tend to go astray at the latter stages of the game when intensity rises. That and he seems to crumble under the pressure

French referees in general tend to not police the ruck as strictly as we are used to in SR and CC so expect Argentina committing numbers to the ruck and playing on the fringes of the laws if at all to pay dividends. Their players' experience of playing in the Top 14 (less so now than in previous years mind you) should stand them in good stead.

I expect a very tough contest referee aside. The Pumas have been a step up from the Jaguares every time. Bizarre as that sounds.

 

[TRF_heineken]

I still don't understand why the fixtures are structured as they are.

Every year it's the same.

1st week: SA host Argentina & NZ vs. Australia
2nd week: Argentina hosts SA & NZ and Australia play reverse fixture.
3rd week: bye
4th week: SA tour to Oz, Arg tour to NZ
5th week: SA and Arg swap around
6th week: bye
7th week: SA hosts Oz, Arg hosts NZ
8th Week: SA hosts NZ and Arg hosts Oz

Now I get that it creates a great ending in that it's usually SA and NZ giving each other a close game. But why do we always have to start against the Argies?? By the time we get to NZ and Oz, our guys are battered and bruised.

 

[George Ford]

I still don't understand why the fixtures are structured as they are.

Every year it's the same.

1st week: SA host Argentina & NZ vs. Australia
2nd week: Argentina hosts SA & NZ and Australia play reverse fixture.
3rd week: bye
4th week: SA tour to Oz, Arg tour to NZ
5th week: SA and Arg swap around
6th week: bye
7th week: SA hosts Oz, Arg hosts NZ
8th Week: SA hosts NZ and Arg hosts Oz

Now I get that it creates a great ending in that it's usually SA and NZ giving each other a close game. But why do we always have to start against the Argies?? By the time we get to NZ and Oz, our guys are battered and bruised.

I kind of prefer it this way. Depends on how u look at it I guess, coz, by the time the Boks face the AB's then no excuse of rust of 1st game together can be made. Battered and bruised will be taken if confidence levels are high after 3 wins, not counting any eggs here btw...

That and, in the past, ABs v Boks fixtures was always the highest on rugby internationals calendar..

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I still don't understand why the fixtures are structured as they are.

Every year it's the same.

1st week: SA host Argentina & NZ vs. Australia
2nd week: Argentina hosts SA & NZ and Australia play reverse fixture.
3rd week: bye
4th week: SA tour to Oz, Arg tour to NZ
5th week: SA and Arg swap around
6th week: bye
7th week: SA hosts Oz, Arg hosts NZ
8th Week: SA hosts NZ and Arg hosts Oz

Now I get that it creates a great ending in that it's usually SA and NZ giving each other a close game. But why do we always have to start against the Argies?? By the time we get to NZ and Oz, our guys are battered and bruised.

I like the line up TBH. For a few reasons. If anyone has reason to complain its Argentina.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Argentina are better than France going forward but considerably softer in defence. So taking the June results into account I'll go with a prediction of:

SA 43 - 23 Argentina

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Argentina are better than France going forward but considerably softer in defence. So taking the June results into account I'll go with a prediction of:

SA 43 - 23 Argentina

A 20 point lead sounds generous to me. In the interior I'd be a taker. At PE I'd give us a 10 point handicap normally. Everything considered I am more inclined to go SA by 5.. I hope.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

A 20 point lead sounds generous to me. In the interior I'd be a taker. At PE I'd give us a 10 point handicap normally. Everything considered I am more inclined to go SA by 5.. I hope.

What is the disadvantage of PE, weather?

 

[Horacito]

South africa by 15.

 

[SomeOke]

What is the disadvantage of PE, weather?

PE weather is pretty moderate, no worse than Durban or Cape Town, by handicap I assume Stormer means we don't have the automatic altitude advantage.
I don't see why we would have an inherent disadvantage in PE other than the crowd might be slightly smaller (it hasn't been in the past).

Edit: I have no idea what to expect from the game, zero clue.
The French didn't really provide us a good yardstick, and if you believe Whiteley was the key to our success then we might be back to square one.
The squad is improved but still has it's problems (coughRhulecough).
I would also prefer Kolisi as captain to Eben, Kolisi strikes me as the same kind of charismatic, lead from the front kind of leader that Whitley is but AC went for the conservative choice of more caps.

I'm still fairly optimistic though, SA by 10.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

What is the disadvantage of PE, weather?

Just heavier fields and atmosphere. Up at the interior a team is more likely to inflate the winning margin. IE a 20 point winning margin is to my mind and experience equal to an 8 point winning margin at the coast in SA; a team will get 3 points at goal at 60m rather than 40m, teams defending will tire quicker and you'd expect that to add another 7 points to the margin. The fields are also just quicker and its less easy to get a solid hit on your opponent in defense; small margins adding up.

On the SA squad I am with @SomeOke . Clueless. I just don't think Dan du Preez will have the calming influence and link Whiteley has on/with Cronje and Jantjies. Cronje might even be unavailable. Our forwards will have to dominate to take the pressure off but easier said than done. 0/5 Rhule still on the right wing despite Combrinck and Lleyds being available and fit. Argentina can spread wide fast and run at him for easy gains. I too question Etzebeth as captain. Jesse Kriel at 13 is a good finisher but what if we're not the team doing the running. I am concerned about our defense out wide man on man and just plain positioning. Serfontein will have to look to rush IMO. Beast probably starting with an injury crisis at tight head against the Pumas is a scary prospect especially with Poite who unfairly blew Vincent Koch's test career to bits in one game. I have a lot of misgivings but hope our weaknesses don't get baited.

 

[George Ford]

Malherbe's injury thins the options at TH, but it shouldn't disrupt preparations for Saturday in that position as the 2 backups (Oosthuizen & Nyakane) could now train & focus on packing down that side of the scrum. With Dreyer being allowed leave for the week, I think Coenie will be the likeliest to start along with Beast & Marx

I am concerned at Lleyds & Gelant being released to their unions (not so much Mohoje), it must surely mean Bosch is set to make an appearance as cover for both 10 & 15, DDA covering center & wing. Venter won't be missed either.

Loosetrio is a bit of toss-up at this point. Only guy certain to start is Kolisi. No guarantee if Kriel will start or even if Jean-Luc will wear 8 or Dan. Etzebeth & Mostert will def pack down in the middle, PSDT backup for both lock & loosie.

It's expected that Cronje should recover from the minor rib injury he sustained in the SR final. It's key that him and Jantjies start this test together. Would be very concerned if we're left with Hougaard to start. I know it's kind of pointless mentioning this now, but why isn't Piet Van Zyl chosen ahead of Paige if the former is 1st choice at their union? SMH

Rest of the backs continues where they left off.

 

[TRF_heineken]

I wonder how the weather will hold up with the reports of a big cold front coming in from Tomorrow, not that I care, it's a nice and warm 26 degrees here in Limpopo. But I read that the Eastern Cape and KZN can expect Snow, Strong Winds and a big chill...

 

[Superalexmarket]

Pumas jersey for this TRC.

 

[petite]

it's 7 to 3 for the bocks! I think we can do it in a good day. SA ''s been impresive vs France but we have the potencial to make it.