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[2017 Rugby Championship] Round 1: South Africa v Argentina (19/08/2017)

Unpopular opinion but if we are forcing youngsters into it I am kinda leaning towards Willemse > Bosch but that might just be my Stormers bias. In any case, if Lambie and Rob du Preez both were fit would Bosch even be starting for the Sharks and be playing at 10. I think probably not.

But it seems its okay for the Bokke do go a route the unions don't even go IE Paige ahead of Van Zyl for the Bokke but not at the Bulls. I am of the opinion that the Currie Cup game between WP and the Lions have better outside backs between them than the Bokke are fielding vs Argentina since to my mind 11 Lleyds, 14 Combrinck, 15 Marais > 11 Skosan, 14 Rhule, 15 Coetzee as a unit if not player for player where Coetzee probably has the wood on Marais.

Yeah, I don't know. Bosch has been very good throughout this whole Super Rugby season as well as the JWC. Whereas Willemse seemed to only get his stride the last 2 games for the Stormers and in the Currie Cup. The benefit of having Bosch, which similar to Lambie is that he has the versatility to play Fullback too, whereas Willemse haven't been impressive for me at centre. But I think against Argentina is a good way to blood the youngster. AC and the rest of the coaching team seem to agree that he is a big talent.

I'm not at all convinced by SP Marais. Did you see how that Griquas fullback burned him last week Wednesday? Marais looked mediocre. For me Coetzee is the first choice fullback for us, with maybe Bosch, Combrink and Gelant as the backups.
 
Yes, it is confirmed the squad.

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Unpopular opinion but if we are forcing youngsters into it I am kinda leaning towards Willemse > Bosch
From what I've seen of the two (which admittedly probably isn't enough to pass fair judgement) I also prefer Willemse. Just love the way he plays and his skillset. That sidestep is lethal. I reckon he has the potential to be special and if the Boks wanna proceed with a more attacking style, he could be the man for the job going forward.
 
I like Willemse a lot and I think he has a huge amount of talent, he's a better distributor and ball runner than Bosch BUT unfortunately while I don't want a fly-half who is only a kicking fly-half not being able to kick for polls is a deal breaker.

I kind of like Coenie actually, he's always offered a lot in the loose but his discipline and scrummaging have let him down in the past, he's improved both in recent times.

Cassiem is an interesting pick, but I do rate him, I don't think he's better than JLDP but what can you do, he's probably more work-man like, it could be a balance thing as Kolisi, Kriel and JLDP are all quite flashy.

No problem with the Bulls centre's they are both improving, young and have heaps of room to grow. Serfontein is becoming a better line-runner and learning to be a little bit more elusive which he needed, he was too one dimensional for a while which doesn't work at this level.
J Kriel is a prodigy and I'm a huge fan he's struggled to defend in the 13 channel before but I do believe he's someone we should have in the set-up, pure pace and power with a natural finishing ability.

Combrink and RJVR are game breakers and should probably be in the set-up but they've been a little unlucky with injuries this year. I don't agree with (but understand) them not being in the 23.

Rhule is not a international level player for me, but it's pretty obvious he's a quota selection. For me if we must have a black player in that position I'd rather try someone more solidly defensive (like Ulengo) or someone with more potential and finishing ability like Senatla or Nkosi. Senatla has had his critics this year, but at the very worst he's a very hard working wing who tackles hard, chases hard and is a nuisance at the break-down, and if you put him in space he's just as likely to score as Rhule. Nkosi is just one of the most natural finishers we have in South Africa, very hard to put down.

I like SP Marais but agree with Heineken that he's not a complete player, his defensive record is almost as bad as Rhule and he's unreliable as a kicking option. For pure attacking and creative flair he's the best we have but it's just not enough. Coetzee is our best option, solid in all the necessary aspects and he joins the line well in attack, not a world beater like almost any FB in NZ but our best option for now.

The team is a good one, I'm more concerned with tactics and moral than I am with the players. No SA team should lose to Italy but it happened, this is why I put up with Whiteley despite him being pretty average, gees and belief is what elevates the Lions to beat a team when they are 20 points down. We need that attitude in the Bokke.

As note on quota's: as much as it leaves a bad taste in one's mouth, getting black players to love rugby is the route to our future success, if we can get the 90% of the country that doesn't care for rugby to care we will be unstoppable. Perhaps it's worth it in the long term, there already seems to be more and more black talent developing at younger levels (and in more varied positions).
 
Curwin has an eye for a gap, can step, can kick points and makes Lambiesque decisions when distributing. While Willemse is a great talent, I think Bosch has more to offer the boks as 10/15 backup as things stand and would argue he is the better distributer as well. Would take some convincing to see it otherwise, although an argument could be made that he lacks too much experience for the bokke. As for Rhule being a quota choice, I'd rather have Sbu Nkosi, Lwazi Mvovo or even Mapimpi any day of the week. I don't understand ACs motivations, if he wants a fast guy on the wing why not Senatla? Quota selections are a part of SA and we're dealing with it, but Rhule's selection is a bit of an enigma. I'm glad SP isn't in the squad, his stint with the sharks leaves a sour note still, but it was the sharks' game plan that didn't suit and the Stormers are honing him nicely but Coetzee is the obvious choice for me. Good to see Coenie being tested as a starter, think he has more to offer than just an impact player. With a sold out NMB and this team I think bok fans are right to assume victory, but I'm still hesitant to call it either way as we have very little idea what Pumas will show up and how we will absorb pressure. Whatever happens, I think AC is starting to make better decisions and this squad is a much better foundation to build off then what HM left us with, couple that with a better coaching staff and many options in most positions and things are looking bright compared with last year's fiasco.
 
I think the South Africans will win by about 12. They seem a lot better this year. Although Rhule seems like a defensive liability.
 
@Durbanite, unfortunately it hasn't felt like I've see much of Boschs distribution or stepping ability, but I hope I'm wrong. He has all out pace but he tends to only illustrate in on an or at the end of someone else's move.

Nothing against him, he's even from my school, I just think he's a little one dimensional for now.
 
@Durbanite, unfortunately it hasn't felt like I've see much of Boschs distribution or stepping ability, but I hope I'm wrong. He has all out pace but he tends to only illustrate in on an or at the end of someone else's move.

Nothing against him, he's even from my school, I just think he's a little one dimensional for now.
Fair enough, and I'm probably being biased tbh. Proof is in the pudding as they say and we'll know what he can bring to the bok setup soon enough. His impact on the Sharks was apparent imo, and I think he could be an ace up our sleeve as 10/15 cover for the bokke. I'm just glad he has his chance to impress
 
As if to prove my point Willemse and Lleyds had an exhibition match making the Lions look like a schools team. Willemse showed his willingness and ability to make an impact on defense which surprised me and I was also surprised to see him hold up well in contact after having been caught with the ball flat footed. Only thing is his goal kicking... 0/6 conversions is dire. Something on can work on thankfully. Lleyds is just in amazing form ATM. Can't believe he hasn't been given the opportunity to compete at test level over Rhule or Skosan. And Senatla looking good as well.

On the other hand with the amount of ball they had it was both tough and exciting to see Combrinck and RJvR have little effect against an inspired WP defense. We really do need to sort out our once proud set piece. TBF though we are missing almost an entire pack to the Bokke and injury in 1Kitshoff, 2Mbonambi, 3Malherbe, 4Etzebeth, 5PSdT, 6Kolisi, 7Notshe. Only Carr was there and he looked the goods. I also liked young Cobus Wiese... Erm, but I see I am getting off topic. Or maybe not entirely. I still maintain we have glaring weaknesses in that Bok line-up that can be easily remedied. We'll see though. I'd have thought Beast, PSdT, De Allende and especially Rhule have been given enough rope but maybe it'll take just one more game.
 
Not a great couple of months for Poite. And I don't get what his point was with "blue player touched the ball". We all know that! Did he think Skosan decided it'd be fun to through the ball 5 metres into the air?

Nice to see the Pumas have at least turned up defensively so far.

Bok wingers have seen more decent ball in first 20mins than in whole of the French series.
 
Yes! I love Tuculet. Was it Orlando with the kick through?

EDIT: Bofelli with the kick. Very nice.
 
I don't know if Argentina is very good defensively or if SA is unimaginative in attack.
When Skosan ratted his way through the middle it was the closest SA came to scoring a try in the first half .

Janties has made some bad decisions thus far. That attempt at a drop kick was unnecessary.
But the Boks are looking much more disciplined and motivated so can't fault them for that.
 
Fair play to the commentator pointing out the error on that try. The luck evens out but those are two very disappointing ref decisions. Scrummage is a mess too.

A shame as this could be a cracking contest. Pumas definitely not out of this if Sanchez can find his kicking boots.

Bok loose forwards are winning this so far, especially Kriel.
 
That penalty kick was like an optical illusion. Never looked like if could possibly go over.

Some of the Puma play is decent but they need to find a way to man up, up front.

Boks gambling and playing for a BP? I think that makes sense if they have any aspiration of winning the tournament.
 
Puma defence frail again, but the speed of Rhule and Skosan makes below average defence look appalling. Rhule makes Skosan look pedestrian!
 
Lovely try from the Pumas. This is better than I saw them play all last year in my opinion. Even in the games they won. Nice to see them competing against a decent side. I still think it'll be a 20 point loss.

And can the world wake up and know that the Puma scrum has been average at best for years!
 
And another good try. This has turned into a good game for the neutral. I think it has been a pretty strong standard.
 

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