[2017 RBS Six Nations] Round 2: Wales vs England (11/02/2017)

[anderton46]

What a great clash.

I'm sure england fans will have noted things that went bad for them, but I have to question Howleys substitutions. I'd argue almost every one of them was bad.

Moriarty was having a stormer and he took him off early. Scott Williams off.. why? Ken owens was playing nicely, Webb was good. Seemed he made changes for the sake of it.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Re our looking dangerous I agree and for me that's one of those saving graces which is that it doesn't feel like we had much possession or territory(or did we? and this makes me think whether we just lost the tactical battle to be in the right place.

Hughes has definitely not met my expectations so far but having said that I feel he's been targeted by two extremely physical sides. There were times when Hughes went to ground far too easily but also times when he was tackled by 2 or 3 players. Surely that should be creating more space for us if our ruck work is mean and quick enough.

As for the others, for ages I was trying to work out who the 3rd back-row was and just couldn't think. I realised it was Itoje, who brought some great intensity and actually had a great second half but I'm still not sure he was playing the game you need from a blindside flanker.

 

[j'nuh]

What a great clash.

I'm sure england fans will have noted things that went bad for them, but I have to question Howleys substitutions. I'd argue almost every one of them was bad.

Moriarty was having a stormer and he took him off early. Scott Williams off.. why? Ken owens was playing nicely, Webb was good. Seemed he made changes for the sake of it.

Coaches have access to performance analysis tools to check the power behind hits etc. It's possible that Moriarty's performance was down to throwing himself around in the first half/start of the second, and he got tired faster than others. tbf, I thought Tipuric and Warburton were great too. But I do question taking Scott Williams off. He's great. He should be a full 80 player every week for Wales.

 

[ncurd]

UUGHHHH well at least we won and part for me was quietly confident we always would.

Let's be honest here in the lead up to both of our trys we look pretty damn good (it's also why we can't drop Ford some of those passes you just don't see Farrell make often enough).

Agree with most of the above Te'o for Joseph(hurts to say it ) although the impact of Te'o as sub after the hard grafting of Joseph for 60 mins so I'm not utterly convinced. Haskell need to start probably for Lawes. I want Brown gone still and God I wish Hartley wasn't captain as I prefer George. More of Sinckler needed.


Got to laugh at Lions fly-half starter Davies at the end there. Don't think I've seen that much of an epic fail at the end of a tight game in a long time.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

What a great clash.

I'm sure england fans will have noted things that went bad for them, but I have to question Howleys substitutions. I'd argue almost every one of them was bad.

Moriarty was having a stormer and he took him off early. Scott Williams off.. why? Ken owens was playing nicely, Webb was good. Seemed he made changes for the sake of it.

Agree - as I said above, the Moriarty sub smacked of a pre-arranged plan which took no account of performance on the day.

 

[ncurd]

Agree - as I said above, the Moriarty sub smacked of a pre-arranged plan which took no account of performance on the day.

aka The Lancaster Manuveur

 

[martinspoonboy1]

Someone on bbc sport has written a great comment. "Moriarty tackles like a train. With great force and usually late". Hahaha.

Good resolve from England. Credit to Wales for playing their best game in years. Great game great win. Will do a player breakdown tomorrow after a re-watch, but as expressed, our back row isn't firing and its stunting any momentum.

Thanks god for JD2s moment of madness!

 

[Peat]

The Moriarty decision was particularly baffling. He'd been MotM up to that point.

I think that when we (or any fans) criticise the team, there's a little reluctance to look at the contribution of the other team. Wales are a fantastic defensive outfit. Whatever they do wrong, intensity in defence generally isn't it. They are the best Six Nations outfit at it. I think our carrying will be better just by not having to face Wales for the rest of the tournament. Not saying we shouldn't take any steps to improve it, just that we shouldn't over-correct and neglect other areas in a desperate bid to fix the problem.

Wales were really good in defence its true, but you only have to look at the difference Haskell made when he came on and the way he carried, looking for soft shoulders and half-gaps, to know the others could have done better.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I really don't see how Youngs can start. 2 of his mistakes almost cost us the game on top of his generally lethargic performance. I really think Care to start and can we bring in a new player? Robson needs to get into the England setup ASAP.

 

[McTallshort]

What a horrible bloody game!

 

[shaunwilding89]

Don't care if he's captain, Hartley should not be in the squad any more. Utterly useless. Youngs was lethargic and his slowness to the breakdown was part of the reason we got turned over so much, as well as throwing a ****ty intercept pass and a charge down clearance. A ton of errors and generally poor play. Itoje is not a flanker, we need to put him back at lock. Hughes is no good, he is too predictable and cannot bash through like Vunipola. Cole is slow and Sinkler made the difference.

For next week:

Care to start
Haskell to start
Itoje to lock, replacing Lawes
Brown off, Daly at FB, May to the wing
Sinkler to come on earlier

Thank God somebody is seeing the same as me regarding Young, Hughes and Brown. We seem so much quicker and dangerous with care in at SH, young is so predictable. I'm a Wasps fan but for me Hughes is not an international NO8 & when Wasps have everyone fit I would pick a few combinations non of which involves him. As for Brown god he infuriates me

 

[ratsapprentice]

Wales were really good in defence its true, but you only have to look at the difference Haskell made when he came on and the way he carried, looking for soft shoulders and half-gaps, to know the others could have done better.

And a SH stopping a massive no8 dead.

 

[barkinghooker]

Hughes in his defense has come up against some meaty players but did Webb put him on his arse ?

We really miss Robshaw and the Vunipolas.

Happy we got a week off then Italy next.

I think Joseph's magic has worn off. He's a great at defense but we do have a light midfield nowadays. He probably needs to pass more in attack.
(he'll probably get a hat-trick against Italy again!!)

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Really enjoyed that. Considering we're missing half our first choice pack I thought it was a fantastic effort.

Lawes was about 1000% better than last week. Still issues with the back row, presumably Haskell will start next time out. Nowell bought energy, would like to see him at FB against Italy. Given our lack of ball carriers in the pack I'd really like to see Teo given a chance. Care probably ought to start too.

Thought Faz's pass to Daly for the try was as good a piece of skill as you'll see. So often you see the runner having to check their stride, and the opportunity's gone. That was perfect.

That's 2 wins from 2 games we probably shouldn't have won. Never underestimate the mental aspect.

 

[The5thOfficial]

Never underestimate the mental aspect.

Just LOL!

 

[McTallshort]

We really really miss Robshaw

 

[mustardcharlie]

It was a much better performance from England. Once again the game resulted in their favour because of a poor kick. Ford is the main weakness defensively. The back row is inexperienced at this time. Haskell should start and be captain. George > Hartley. Once again I thought MoM should have gone to a member of the losing team. Moriarty was immense. Big mistake from Howells to take him off. But with 5 minutes to go and your team ahead, the ball should be going out of the park. The result was inevitable once Daley got the ball. I used to play back row but even as a club player I reckon you should bang that chance in from 20 yards. Still a much better performance than last week. Much more entertaining. Well played Wales.

 

[TobesHodges]

Tallshort took the words out of my mouth - we really miss Robshaws doggedness Doing the knitty gritty stuff that takes the pressure off players like Itoje, Launch and Clifford.
George needs to start, Itoje needs to start at 5 with Hask at 6. The backs just need Rocket up the arses, Ford isn't quite knowing when to kick for territory or run. The obvious change could be Teo to 12 and Farrell to 10, but Ford doesn't deserve a drop.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

One thing this six nations has highlighted is that our back row depth is nowhere near as good as I thought it might be.

The likes of Underhill, Curries, Evans, Mercer have potential but are still a while away from this sort of rugby (Underhill prob the only one who is ready now).

Itoje ain't a 6.
Clifford ain't a 7 at this level.
Hughes is miles behind Vunipola.

Who else is there currently?
6
Mike Williams - not tested at this level
Ewers - Same as Williams

7
Wood - LOL
Kevsic - Form for Glous has gone
Wallace - Is he really a international 7?
Fraser - Always injured

8
Beaumont - Poor club form
Morgan - meh club form.


Would be tempted v Italy to go with
1) Marler
2) George
3) Cole
4) Itoje
5) Lawes
6) Williams
7) Haskell
8) Morgan
9) Care
10) Ford
11) Nowell
12) Faz
13) Joesph
14) May
15) Daly

16) Hartley
17) Genge
18) Sinkler
19) Launchbury
20) Clifford
21) Robson (maybe Youngs)
22) Loz
23) T'eo

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

I really don't see how Youngs can start. 2 of his mistakes almost cost us the game on top of his generally lethargic performance. I really think Care to start and can we bring in a new player? Robson needs to get into the England setup ASAP.

Probably agree given the back-story of how poor Youngs has been recently, but overall the Youngs versus Care contest is a bit of a red-herring. Both similar enough and both have flaws and cycle in and out of form but what we need as you say is an alternative to both.