[2017 RBS Six Nations] Round 2: Wales vs England (11/02/2017)

[Ragey Erasmus]

Don't care if he's captain, Hartley should not be in the squad any more. Utterly useless. Youngs was lethargic and his slowness to the breakdown was part of the reason we got turned over so much, as well as throwing a ****ty intercept pass and a charge down clearance. A ton of errors and generally poor play. Itoje is not a flanker, we need to put him back at lock. Hughes is no good, he is too predictable and cannot bash through like Vunipola. Cole is slow and Sinkler made the difference.

For next week:

Care to start
Haskell to start
Itoje to lock, replacing Lawes
Brown off, Daly at FB, May to the wing
Sinkler to come on earlier

 

[stus768]

Don't think it was terrible. It was a decent team performance with some bad individual performances which I think we can fix with some changes. George, Haskell and T'eo to start next week, with Daly at fullback. Kruis for Lawes if fit, or Itoje back into the second row if not. Maybe an opportunity to look at Mike Williams too?

Where do u play teo?

 

[j'nuh]

Where do u play teo?

Probably 13. Maybe overly harsh on Joseph, but I don't think he's been particularly great this tournament, whereas T'eo has been pretty great off the bench in both tests.

Could also play at 12 with Farrell at 10. But I worry it changes our style too much.

 

[Bluemoon]

Think Moriarty's not done his Lions chances any harm.

On the plane.

Agree with this! Think it's going to depend on what Howley decides to do going forward now. I'd start with he same backrow next game with Faletau coming from the bench, but Howley tends to go with the experience, rather than the form.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Isn't Kruis out till may?

Think we're missing him and Robshaw a lot, stupid work rates and do a lot of unseen work that allows others to be in the line or carrying.
Definitely agree that we're missing the Vunipolae most.

Definitely think George has to start. Not sure how I feel about Sinckler starting but he should definitely getting more than 20mins a game, rather than 5-10


Teo came on for JJ today and I think, if he's to start, I'd put him there. Huge fan of JJ but he wasn't at his best today, and we really need the extra carrying power, and I think the Ford/Farrell axis should be stuck with (though Farrell to 10 if ones getting dropped)

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Don't care if he's captain, Hartley should not be in the squad any more. Utterly useless. Youngs was lethargic and his slowness to the breakdown was part of the reason we got turned over so much, as well as throwing a ****ty intercept pass and a charge down clearance. A ton of errors and generally poor play. Itoje is not a flanker, we need to put him back at lock. Hughes is no good, he is too predictable and cannot bash through like Vunipola. Cole is slow and Sinkler made the difference.

For next week:

Care to start
Haskell to start
Itoje to lock, replacing Lawes
Brown off, Daly at FB, May to the wing
Sinkler to come on earlier

Mostly have to agree but I thought Lawes was really good and carried better than some and also apart from one brain fart thought Brown was fine.

 

[stus768]

Probably 13. Maybe overly harsh on Joseph, but I don't think he's been particularly great this tournament, whereas T'eo has been pretty great off the bench in both tests.

Could also play at 12 with Farrell at 10. But I worry it changes our style too much.

That's what's difficult. 13 to disrupt the team less but jj has done well getting the ball to the wings and defending 13-a difficult place to defend.

 

[TheSaffycen]

Not sure why with Scott Williams or Moriarty came off. Both were absolutely brilliant.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Not sure why with Scott Williams or Moriarty came off. Both were absolutely brilliant.

Warburton and Davies are Howley's boys, they've been around forever,
It's the only reason Jamie roberts is still in the side.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

If you're looking to change the centres then Daly has been playing 13 for Wasps, and I don't think Brown was bad today. But think it's a bit premature and maybe harsh on JJ. But Daly is the form 13.

 

[Peat]

Eh, I enjoyed watching that, both teams made a lot of unforced errors and were blunt but plenty of drama.

To state the blyddi obvious, Wales needed to get the ball off the pitch at times when they didn't and it ended up costing them. They really fronted up in terms of physicality and I thought they showed some good attacking structure. Failure to relieve pressure when they could cost them. Also, to lose by five points after turning six kickable points = ouch.

Thought I'd be typing the same about England though. One of our worst territorial matches in a long time. Forwards didn't have a great carrying game but they weren't the ones losing that game.

Really got to question whether he need Hartley's leadership after the last two games.

edit: I'm very surprised at the people questioning Lawes' performance and while I think the last two weeks has firmly closed the question on Itoje as a long term back row, I still think we're a better team with him there until we get some better back rows.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Who captained when Hartley went off?

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Forwards didn't have a great carrying game but they weren't the ones losing that game.

I think I agree but... go on...?

 

[ratsapprentice]

Thought I'd be typing the same about England though. One of our worst territorial matches in a long time. Forwards didn't have a great carrying game but they weren't the ones losing that game.

I think it's the most significant issue by a stretch.

 

[TW27BA]

Great game for the neutrals, but that was hard work being an England fan. Back row is all wrong and Wales were first to the breakdown every time.
I've never seen England stripped of their own ball so often. Just shows how badly the Vunipolae , Robshaw and Kruis are missed.

Eddie needs to experiment a little next game and see what the likes of Teo, George and Sinkler are like from the off.
Hughes and Hartley a big disappointment and Hartley in particular should be dropped completely. Give Farrell the captaincy too.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

I think it's the most significant issue by a stretch.

Certainly an issue but for me the breakdown is huge. Clearout was not clean and Wales managed to slow things down SO much, like ridiculously so. The speed of ball was really poor. But yeah I don't make any excuse for a poor outing for Hughes but I think a lot of parts of our game were faulty.

 

[stus768]

Eh, I enjoyed watching that, both teams made a lot of unforced errors and were blunt but plenty of drama.

To state the blyddi obvious, Wales needed to get the ball off the pitch at times when they didn't and it ended up costing them. They really fronted up in terms of physicality and I thought they showed some good attacking structure. Failure to relieve pressure when they could cost them. Also, to lose by five points after turning six kickable points = ouch.

Thought I'd be typing the same about England though. One of our worst territorial matches in a long time. Forwards didn't have a great carrying game but they weren't the ones losing that game.

Really got to question whether he need Hartley's leadership after the last two games.

edit: I'm very surprised at the people questioning Lawes' performance and while I think the last two weeks has firmly closed the question on Itoje as a long term back row, I still think we're a better team with him there until we get some better back rows.

Good point if we're losing when hartleys on and win when he's off where's his leadership?

I'm happy to wait longer before deciding on itoje in backrow.

 

[Mike Rolls]

Can't help feeling that today has, once again, shown up the total idiocy of the bonus points/points differential ideas. Can anybody really believe that Ireland's performance in slaughtering a very poor Italian side is worth more that the result of the EvW match - regardless of who won, for it could have gone either way. On the match itself - another 'win ugly' performance from England who lost the turnover battle 1-8 and committed so many unforced errors (although Wales weren't blameless on that score)
Mike

 

[Peat]

I think I agree but... go on...?

I think it's the most significant issue by a stretch.

Kicking game was awful. The failure to execute our exit strategy took us by far the closest to losing the game. Carrying might not have been great, but we looked dangerous when we were up there for my money. Just failed to be up there enough to make it easy.

That was also the most static I've seen our scrum-halves in forever which did nobody any favours (partly due to poor carrying).

I'd also stress that if talking general carrying misdemeanours, you need to look at the centres as well as the back row. Back row did severely disappoint me in retrospect. Haskell did more than Hughes and Clifford combined with his time on the field.

- - - Updated - - -

I think I agree but... go on...?

I think it's the most significant issue by a stretch.

Kicking game was awful. The failure to execute our exit strategy took us by far the closest to losing the game. Carrying might not have been great, but we looked dangerous when we were up there for my money. Just failed to be up there enough to make it easy.

That was also the most static I've seen our scrum-halves in forever which did nobody any favours (partly due to poor carrying).

I'd also stress that if talking general carrying misdemeanours, you need to look at the centres as well as the back row. Back row did severely disappoint me in retrospect. Haskell did more than Hughes and Clifford combined with his time on the field.

 

[j'nuh]

I think that when we (or any fans) criticise the team, there's a little reluctance to look at the contribution of the other team. Wales are a fantastic defensive outfit. Whatever they do wrong, intensity in defence generally isn't it. They are the best Six Nations outfit at it. I think our carrying will be better just by not having to face Wales for the rest of the tournament. Not saying we shouldn't take any steps to improve it, just that we shouldn't over-correct and neglect other areas in a desperate bid to fix the problem.