2017 British & Irish Lions Squad Announcement

[Leonormous Boozer]

Te'o is the gamebreaker you want, Ringrose not going is a great call...

 

[munstermuffin]

Te'o is the gamebreaker you want, Ringrose not going is a great call...

As I said earlier it's nothing to do with game breaker either. It's simply put. Ringrose is Warrenball could smash his confidence, physically break him and burn him out. Ringrose is not a bulky 13 who'll truck it up. He's physically not there at this time. His game is footwork and gaps.

 

[BobbyM]

Te'o has the capacity to go the way of Burgess. He's played a small number of international games at centre, and I'd suggest he's not ready to plan at the top top level at centre. At the level you need to be at to compete against the all blacks, having some who can hit big won't be enough. I would be very nervous about his ability to develop strong positioning partnerships in such a short space of time given his lack of experience playing union. Following Sam burgess at the World Cup there was a brilliant article by Gordon D'Arcy, linked below, about how important such positioning is.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rug...-is-blunder-that-could-bury-england-1.2371821

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I'd imagine it was more JJ vs Ringrose considering gatland was always going to take a bosh centre.


Also, I didn't see the game, but I've seen a LOT of people slagging off Anthony Watson today, apparently he made Wade's defence look like Joe Worsley - thoughts?

 

[MarkyH]

Ben Te'o played almost 50 games for Leinster at centre, and plenty now for England and Worcester. He's made a very successful transition from RL. I wouldn't say there's much to worry about Teo in Union anymore.

 

[munstermuffin]

I'd imagine it was more JJ vs Ringrose considering gatland was always going to take a bosh centre.


Also, I didn't see the game, but I've seen a LOT of people slagging off Anthony Watson today, apparently he made Wade's defence look like Joe Worsley - thoughts?

Probably was that considering rumours of JJ being out. But neither will excel in that system. But I do wonder has Gatland a joker up sleeve. Like everyone knows you won't overpower an All Blacks squad down there when they'll be relatively fresh and our guys will be tired after season. Add in they sent out the provinces to soften them up too.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

As I said earlier it's nothing to do with game breaker either. It's simply put. Ringrose is Warrenball could smash his confidence, physically break him and burn him out. Ringrose is not a bulky 13 who'll truck it up. He's physically not there at this time. His game is footwork and gaps.

Snarky, slightly bitter drunk comment after a loss by me there but pick the best players and build around them, Ringrose is better than 4 of the 5 available 13's and is breathing down Joseph's neck an underprepared sxhibition side aren't going to outsmart NZ so its common sense to pick guys who can score from anywhere, create space for others and defend with their heads up, at 13 this is Ringrose and Joseph both have their flaws and moments of stupidy but they're capable of winning big games and not just slowly and gallantly losing them like Te'o and JD2 will in an incohesive side against the world's best. Farrell, Henshaw, Ringrose and Joseph were really the obvious choices of centres after the Euro QF's and by the sounds of things he's picked two while not holding the other in the highest regard.

 

[The Jones Boy]

I don't see another centre in the British Isles to touch Joseph, he's class, Joseph was always going to be a shoe in for the Gatling gun... a player like Teo, a big physical beast, to play alongside him would help his chances of squeaking a line break.
Ringrose has not done anything to impress me at the top level as yet. Plenty of time though.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I don't see another centre in the British Isles to touch Joseph, he's class, Joseph was always going to be a shoe in for the Gatling gun... a player like Teo, a big physical beast, to play alongside him would help his chances of squeaking a line break.
Ringrose has not done anything to impress me at the top level as yet. Plenty of time though.

Did you watch the match yesterday, the Leinster v Wasps match, Ireland v England, v France, v Australia? They're top level games where the guy got the better of more experienced internationals, JJ inculded. You're not going to pair Ringrose and JJ, no one in their right mind would start, or in my opinion pick Te'o to tour thinking he'd beat NZ. Te'o was never better than Ringrose at Leinster and Ringrose has improved at a much faster rate.

 

[munstermuffin]

Snarky, slightly bitter drunk comment after a loss by me there but pick the best players and build around them, Ringrose is better than 4 of the 5 available 13's and is breathing down Joseph's neck an underprepared sxhibition side aren't going to outsmart NZ so its common sense to pick guys who can score from anywhere, create space for others and defend with their heads up, at 13 this is Ringrose and Joseph both have their flaws and moments of stupidy but they're capable of winning big games and not just slowly and gallantly losing them like Te'o and JD2 will in an incohesive side against the world's best. Farrell, Henshaw, Ringrose and Joseph were really the obvious choices of centres after the Euro QF's and by the sounds of things he's picked two while not holding the other in the highest regard.

Don't disagree but simply put it was opposite. Pick a system and pick players for that system

 

[Groundhog]

I don't see another centre in the British Isles to touch Joseph, he's class, Joseph was always going to be a shoe in for the Gatling gun... a player like Teo, a big physical beast, to play alongside him would help his chances of squeaking a line break.
Ringrose has not done anything to impress me at the top level as yet. Plenty of time though.

Te'o won't be starting hopefully as he has the minor barrier of Robbie Henshaw (who NZ fans should be acquainted with by now) ahead of him at 12, and the English incumbent 13 ahead of him in that position. Henshaw and Te'o would be an awful match anyway. I'm also not sure Te'o brings the kind of gamechanging impact Gatland has cited in the New Zealand bench that he wants to bring to the Lions. He's solid in most every aspect, but not a game changer.
I won't take much issue with the Ringrose comment as I'm sure you don't watch him week in week out like we would, but the kid is special. It's a lazy comparison, but he's being called the next O'Driscoll for a reason. For a guy who is relatively undersized for international rugby, he is the most elusive and slippery player I've seen in a very long time and I've known he would be a star when I first saw him play Under 20. What he lacks in size he more than makes up for in rugby IQ and sheer X factor. That said, Joseph is ahead of him for now. Ringrose is not complete on the defensive side of things just yet.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Daly is also ahead of Ringrose as a 13 right now, though Gatland may be seeing him as a winger still..

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Daly is also ahead of Ringrose as a 13 right now, though Gatland may be seeing him as a winger still..

I also think that Daly playing 13, wing and experience at wasps at FB played a part in this too.

Brilliant footballer who can cover so many positions.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

It's a lazy comparison, but he's being called the next O'Driscoll for a reason.

Find me an Irish back who hasn't been called that
Definitely heard it said about Earls and Luke Fitz

 

[Which Tyler]

Te'o has the capacity to go the way of Burgess. He's played a small number of international games at centre, and I'd suggest he's not ready to plan at the top top level at centre. At the level you need to be at to compete against the all blacks, having some who can hit big won't be enough. I would be very nervous about his ability to develop strong positioning partnerships in such a short space of time given his lack of experience playing union. Following Sam burgess at the World Cup there was a brilliant article by Gordon D'Arcy, linked below, about how important such positioning is.

You're already 2 years too late for any [redacted] comparisons, not to mention being utterly ridiculous in comparing a natural flanker to a natural centre whilst ignoring every single match played for class, form and learning.
Te'o is not really up to playing the ABs yet, but any comparison to [redacted] is showing your ignorance, and nothing more.

Also, I didn't see the game, but I've seen a LOT of people slagging off Anthony Watson today, apparently he made Wade's defence look like Joe Worsley - thoughts?

Bath's defence as a whole was pretty woeful; I think it's because TB's trying to get them playing completely different defensive patterns, and making the changes mid-season, rather than with a pre-season to do so; with a particularly stark difference now we're actually getting some first choice players back (who are essentially back to square one on that learning curve).
In general though, most of the mistakes came in the last 10 minutes or so, when both teams were blowing out of their arses, and the brains had faded away completely having hit the wall fitness wise.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Also, I didn't see the game, but I've seen a LOT of people slagging off Anthony Watson today, apparently he made Wade's defence look like Joe Worsley - thoughts?

Overdone - one bad tackle on opposition winger led to a try.

 

[Groundhog]

Would agree Daly is still ahead as well, I rate him really highly in terms of his intelligence as well. Really gets the best out of players around him.

Find me an Irish back who hasn't been called that
Definitely heard it said about Earls and Luke Fitz

Well to be fair Earls is way off as he's a natural wing, Fitz was class but ruined by injury, and people have said it of Henshaw, which also makes no sense as he's quite direct as a player, but in terms of running style, evasiveness and speed he's the most similar to O'Driscoll as a player I've seen for us. Both not particularly big men but always seem to spot opportunities. I'm sure he himself hates the comparison, but so many pundits have noted it and Drico to an extent agreed and is constantly hyping him on BT and in the press. He's obviously way off being that good yet, but if he stays fit it's gonna be the shot that's heard around the world. If I'm allowed two non-Munster Irish player hypes a year they go to Ringrose and Dan Leavy. I get 10 Munster hypes. Only fair.
#Ringrose4pope

 

[munstermuffin]

Find me an Irish back who hasn't been called that
Definitely heard it said about Earls and Luke Fitz

Have to agree with that. There's noone original any more just the next this and that. It's a bit of an annoyance.

 

[The Jones Boy]

Gatland has picked a squad that will make New Zealand sit up and take notice.
You can argue the finer points but this is a squad bursting with potential to take the AB's down in their own fortress.
There are many of the top English performers and they are the form side in the NH this year just pipping the Irish boys who are looking to be at the top of their game.
Wales has a few questionable selections in their lot but there is no denying that they are all very good players as well and a couple of quality Jocks round out the 41 strong squad.
This is a Lions team that is worthy of respect and I believe that is exactly what they will get in New Zealand; from the media, the public and their All Black counterparts.

This tour is a BIG deal in New Zealand and the faithful have been looking forward to it for years, and they are counting the sleeps until the first kick off up in lovely Whangarei.
I hope it will be closer than the last tour in 2005 when the AB's were never tested.
This has the hallmarks of being a real test of the AB's.
Top calibre northern hemisphere players, gritty tough forwards, fast clever backs, mostly picked on form, some for experience, but no slouches anywhere.
Boatloads of kicking talent.
Forwards and backs all dripping with talent.

The AB's are in a place where they are still developing after losing 800 caps early last year after the RWC in late 2015.
They have quite a lot of kids in the mix and some of them havent made the grade but others are coming through. Barrett has questionable kicking percentages...
It's a portentous time for the Lions comet to catch the AB's.
Several positions in the AB line up are not set in stone.
This is going to be a close fought affair.
The Lions have the kicking advantage with Sexton, Farrell, Halfpenny and Daly all in the mix.

At the top level, Hansen wants to maintain the AB record with his developing squad, whilst Gatland wants to bank his savings with the home crowd and show his quality to take the top seat from Hansen.

There are different levels to this battle and that only serves to make it more interesting.

 

[msf]

Here´s the best Lions Test selection I could expect at this point:

15. Williams
14. North
13. Payne
12. Henshaw
11. Daly
10. Sexton
9. Murray
8. Faletau
7. Warburton
6. Stander
5. Kruis
4. Itoje
3. Furlong
2. George
1. McGrath

16. Owens
17. Vunipola
18. Sinckler
19. Wyn-Jones
20. Vunipola
21. Webb
22. Farrell
23. Hogg

I went for combinations where I could, which is why Payne gets in ahead of Joseph: he is used to defending outside Henshaw and also to combining with Sexton on those wrap-arounds. I picked George, Kruis and Itoje for the same reason: the reason the Irish won in Chicago was the All Blacks line out fell apart, and we have to make sure that this happens again to them (and not to us) in the test series. Borthwick has also worked with all these players before, which gives them an advantage. The only combos I broke up where the Irish front row, Welsh back row and Welsh back three. I think line out will be more important than scrum, so George is in over Best; I think we need a ball carrier in the back row, so Stander is in; and I think we need a full-back who is both a threat in attack and solid in defence, so Williams switches there, with Daly to come in on the wing to kick the long-distance goals.

On the bench Owens ball-carrying ability beats out Best, as is the case for M Vunipola, Sinckler and B Vunipola over Marler, Cole and O´Brien. Hogg is there to provide a back-up long-range kicking option as well as some counter-attacking flair if Williams is injured.