2017 British & Irish Lions Squad Announcement

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

I also think that Daly playing 13, wing and experience at wasps at FB played a part in this too.

Brilliant footballer who can cover so many positions.

Completely, he's managed to show himself good enough to play in a number of positions without getting stuck with the "jack of all trades, master of none" tag which has plagued some utility backs.

Just want this thing to speed up and come around. The media in post-squad announcement analysis all blather about how all people remember is the tests which may be true, but personally I love it all, seeing these guys come together and support each other, how the provincial sides relish the lions opportunity, the tests are the icing on a great cake. And without Clive Woodwards insane grandiosity we may do slightly better this time.

 

[Lancashire Nick]

Here´s the best Lions Test selection I could expect at this point:

15. Williams
14. North
13. Payne
12. Henshaw
11. Daly
10. Sexton
9. Murray
8. Faletau
7. Warburton
6. Stander
5. Kruis
4. Itoje
3. Furlong
2. George
1. McGrath

16. Owens
17. Vunipola
18. Sinckler
19. Wyn-Jones
20. Vunipola
21. Webb
22. Farrell
23. Hogg

......

I'd be fairly happy if that was the First Test line up, the only obvious change for me would be getting Farrell in at 12. I think we need the Sexton and Farrell combination to give the scrum half an option either side of the breakdown, to ensure we always have a field general available if one is tied up in the ruck etc etc

 

[msf]

I'd be fairly happy if that was the First Test line up, the only obvious change for me would be getting Farrell in at 12. I think we need the Sexton and Farrell combination to give the scrum half an option either side of the breakdown, to ensure we always have a field general available if one is tied up in the ruck etc etc

Yes, I went for what I would like to see Gatland do though, and I think the last time he played a second-five eight was when James Hook was still doing his thing. Unfortunately I think his conservatism here will lead to Halfpenny getting the full-back slot, as he will probably want either Halfpenny or Farrell on the pitch from the start (even though Sexton seems to be there or thereabouts in terms of his goal-kicking these days).

 

[General Melchett]

Yes, I went for what I would like to see Gatland do though, and I think the last time he played a second-five eight was when James Hook was still doing his thing. Unfortunately I think his conservatism here will lead to Halfpenny getting the full-back slot, as he will probably want either Halfpenny or Farrell on the pitch from the start (even though Sexton seems to be there or thereabouts in terms of his goal-kicking these days).

Agreed. I think goal kicking will be the Lions' main source of points in the tests with any Hollywood rugby being played in some of the warm up games. The 15 shirt is Halfpenny's to lose. Gatland clearly loves him.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Is he even better than Sexton/Faz these days?
Seen him miss a number of kicks for club and country, Don't think he's quite the metronome that he used to be.

 

[munstermuffin]

Is he even better than Sexton/Faz these days?
Seen him miss a number of kicks for club and country, Don't think he's quite the metronome that he used to be.

In my eyes Farrell is best in world at moment at goal kicking

 

[General Melchett]

Is he even better than Sexton/Faz these days?
Seen him miss a number of kicks for club and country, Don't think he's quite the metronome that he used to be.

No he's not but he's Gatland man. In my view Halfpenny is fourth choice for the 15 shirt behind Hogg, Wiliams & Payne.

 

[dullonien]

Halfpenny's kicking display v France was up there as one of the best I've seen in recent times. He looked a little shaky on occasion after his injury lay-off, but by the end of the 6 nations he looked back to his best, and at his best he's the finest place kicker in world rugby imo. No one else quite matches his accuracy and range, although Farrell get's close, certainly accuracy wise, and not too far off in terms of range.

Still wouldn't have Halfpenny starting though, and there's plenty of players who'd offer more versatility and greater impact off the bench.

 

[BobbyM]

You're already 2 years too late for any [redacted] comparisons, not to mention being utterly ridiculous in comparing a natural flanker to a natural centre whilst ignoring every single match played for class, form and learning.
Te'o is not really up to playing the ABs yet, but any comparison to [redacted] is showing your ignorance, and nothing more.

First point, what is a "natural flanker" compared to a "natural centre" both played for the most part lock and second row at league, their "natural" sport. I haven't ignored his performances, and sure he is a good rugby player. League convert at risk of not being able to perform in top level international competition, in this case the Lions tour of NZ. As opposed to Burgess who was....

I'd suggest jumping to nasty responses about people's intelligence on a fairly anonymous Internet forum is a bit daft and if I'm being frank, not something I'd expect on TRF. To each their own I'll not join you down that road!

 

[BobbyM]

My point is, Ben Te'o, talented footballer that he is, isn't yet a top class international centre. Ok I'm fine with that and I get that part of the lions is about bringing players along who will benefit from the experience. I have no doubt Sinckler will benefit from being around the tour and could be a fantastic player in a couple of years.

So I have no problem with him touring, although his age suggests to me he may not be around for the next tour.

I'm merely suggesting that, for me, he hasn't played enough to play himself into the first XV jersey for the Lions, as some people are suggesting he should be. The key risk for a player such as him grounded in League is his positioning sense, which won't be as in-built as it will be for people who've played more than 60 games of competitive senior rugby union. With the intensity that the ABs can play at, defensive positioning is going to be key to keeping them at bay, and that's where I worry the ABs may be able to exploit his relative lack of experience.

 

[MarkyH]

My point is, Ben Te'o, talented footballer that he is, isn't yet a top class international centre. Ok I'm fine with that and I get that part of the lions is about bringing players along who will benefit from the experience. I have no doubt Sinckler will benefit from being around the tour and could be a fantastic player in a couple of years.

So I have no problem with him touring, although his age suggests to me he may not be around for the next tour.

I'm merely suggesting that, for me, he hasn't played enough to play himself into the first XV jersey for the Lions, as some people are suggesting he should be. The key risk for a player such as him grounded in League is his positioning sense, which won't be as in-built as it will be for people who've played more than 60 games of competitive senior rugby union. With the intensity that the ABs can play at, defensive positioning is going to be key to keeping them at bay, and that's where I worry the ABs may be able to exploit his relative lack of experience.

He has played over 60 games of competitive union though. He's played fantastically well for Leinster hence his move to England and Worcester to claim an EPS and subsequent Lions spot. Also, we can't judge one RL player who failed the same as the others. Te'o isn't world class, but he's a different centre option for Gatland, and if he's not good enough it won't be because he's an ex RL player...

Charnley hasn't shone since his move to Union, but Solomona has. We can't judge all the same. Te'o has been quality, Burgess just wasn't a RU player.

 

[BobbyM]

Oh agree that because one league player doesn't transition, doesn't necessarily mean other won't.

I must be looking at different stats regarding games played: http://www.itsrugby.co.uk/player-11270.html

All I'm doing is highlighting the relative lack of experience he has at top level club & international rugby in a position as defensively crucial as centre. He may turn out to be brilliant. But until he's shown that he can play against the best (as for example henshaw has done) then I'll remain on the fence about him.

 

[The Jones Boy]

The All Black Bench is a Massive factor in any game they play.
Teo is a powerful late game impact player and it may be that Gatland is looking at using him to counter some of the impetus the AB's tend to gain when they unleash their bench players.

 

[Which Tyler]

I'd suggest jumping to nasty responses about people's intelligence on a fairly anonymous Internet forum is a bit daft and if I'm being frank, not something I'd expect on TRF. To each their own I'll not join you down that road!

Quick point, I never commented on your intelligence.

 

[General Melchett]

Halfpenny's kicking display v France was up there as one of the best I've seen in recent times. He looked a little shaky on occasion after his injury lay-off, but by the end of the 6 nations he looked back to his best, and at his best he's the finest place kicker in world rugby imo. No one else quite matches his accuracy and range, although Farrell get's close, certainly accuracy wise, and not too far off in terms of range.

Still wouldn't have Halfpenny starting though, and there's plenty of players who'd offer more versatility and greater impact off the bench.

It all depends on the tactics employed but if there is an intent to utilise the attacking strengths of our wingers then Hogg would probaby get the most out of them with his speed and quick thinking. He handed Seymour and Visser multiple tries on a plate. The prospect of him teaming up with the likes of Williams, Daly, North and Watson is mouth watering but I suspect Gatland will go with 1/2P.

 

[BobbyM]

Quick point, I never commented on your intelligence.

You did call me ignorant which I thought was uncalled for, given you know next to nothing about me.

 

[McTallshort]

Dont get how some are comparing Teo to Burgess. Teo has been playing Union for a couple of years and at a decent level too.

 

[Which Tyler]

You did call me ignorant which I thought was uncalled for, given you know next to nothing about me.

Yes, which if you think there's any comparison between Te'o and Burgess beyond being big lads who used to play league; then I stand by "Ignorant".
No-one who has watched both of them play rugby union (for more than just a couple of matches) can come to the conclusions you did, therefore the most obvious answer is that you hadn't.
The very fact that you think Te'o "has the capacity to go the way of Burgess" when it's already 2 years too late to do so, further implies ignorance.

Te'o has played circa 3800 minutes of rugby union [before being selecyed for the Lions], all in the centres - where he looks very comfortable and a natural fit; and looked comfortable at centre for England.
Burgess had played circa 1200 minutes of rugby union [before being selected for England] - about half of it in the centres - where he never looked anything but out of his depth at club level (whilst he at least looked like he had some ability as a flanker).

Now, if you still think that Te'o "has the capacity to" return to League with his tail between his legs having been an abject failure at Union, and refused to take on any coaching; then you're not only too late, but it's also fair to question your knowledge prior to this discussion - after all, it's a very common mis-conception.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

I don't really get the Te'o naysaying in general. I think a lot of it is influenced by people disliking the rules which allow him to be playing for England so quickly. He's been playing union since 2014 and in that time went down well at Leinster, started well for Worcester and hardly put a foot wrong for England. I'm not just talking about him scoring a try against France, he also got us territorially in the position to win that game against Wales. He's got physicality but much more than that. I don't see him as a particularly strange lions choice at all, even if it would have been nice if Ringrose could have made it.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I don't really get the Te'o naysaying in general. I think a lot of it is influenced by people disliking the rules which allow him to be playing for England so quickly. He's been playing union since 2014 and in that time went down well at Leinster, started well for Worcester and hardly put a foot wrong for England. I'm not just talking about him scoring a try against France, he also got us territorially in the position to win that game against Wales. He's got physicality but much more than that. I don't see him as a particularly strange lions choice at all, even if it would have been nice if Ringrose could have made it.

He's just not good enough is he? Especially as a 12. I had this to say about him around this time last year when Olyy said if he's good enough for the Lions he'll have been selected for England by then, I said;

He's not and he won't. I really like him as a player but he lacks vision at pro 12 level at times nevermind international.

I stand by that despite his selection considering I hadn't entertained the idea of "finishers" yet (which I think is EJ BS anyway, you have Tom Wood on your bench...), if he's supposed to be the guy who comes on and beat NZ after the Welsh do what they do and hang on for 55mins the Lions are screwed even more because they have someone who doesn't know how to beat a competent SH side as their coach. (We know that though!)

If I was to pick centres from best to Te'o it'd look like this:
12 - Henshaw, Farrell, Williams, Dunbar, Te'o
13 - JJ, Ringrose, Daly, Payne, Te'o/Davies

and I can only imagine there's a few better heads in the prem. (Slade maybe?)