[2016 Super Rugby] Lions vs. Highlanders (Semi-Final 2) 30/07/2016

[WaterboySA]

threw a perfectly easy game.

Exactly. The coach decided that he would rather take a loss than let his top 15 travel to Argentina......They made the final because of THAT decision....

Why should the Lions wait for next year to win the comp? Do you HONESTLY not give them a chance to win the final?Did you watch the Lions/Highlanders game? You are a brave person......

 

[austingtir]

Exactly. The coach decided that he would rather take a loss than let his top 15 travel to Argentina......They made the final because of THAT decision....

Why should the Lions wait for next year to win the comp? Do you HONESTLY not give them a chance to win the final?Did you watch the Lions/Highlanders game? You are a brave person......

You didnt even read my post. I never said anything about them not winning this year infact I said the complete opposite. They dropped a game that cost them a home final. A home final in SA with likely a SA ref is a gauranteed Lions victory. They beat the Saders and HL EASILY. IT WAS A DUMB DECISION END OF STORY.

 

[TRF_heineken]

You didnt even read my post. I never said anything about them not winning this year infact I said the complete opposite. They dropped a game that cost them a home final. A home final in SA with likely a SA ref is a gauranteed Lions victory. They beat the Saders and HL EASILY. IT WAS A DUMB DECISION END OF STORY.

We all say that now. But by losing that game, they didn't risk their best players in a match that would've just swapped around the top spots for the tournament, and even then, the chances were that if they had play their top players, they still might have lost. Every SA team that went to Argentina, struggled.

The other thing is their players then had a week off, and didn't travel, something the Crusaders and the Highlanders had to do, which in the end lead to their demise.

So by risking a home final, they saved their players from a loss, travelling, Jetlag and injury...

I say it was a gamble that was worth taking, and in the end resulted in the Lions first ever Final since the Super 10!!

Do you have any idea how massive it is for the Franchise?? Remember that this is the same team that didn't even participate in the 2013 Competition, was near bankruptcy and even talks of losing their stadium.

While your obvious bias (as usual) is clouding your judgement, why not give them the respect they DESERVE!!

 

[austingtir]

We all say that now. But by losing that game, they didn't risk their best players in a match that would've just swapped around the top spots for the tournament, and even then, the chances were that if they had play their top players, they still might have lost. Every SA team that went to Argentina, struggled.

The other thing is their players then had a week off, and didn't travel, something the Crusaders and the Highlanders had to do, which in the end lead to their demise.

So by risking a home final, they saved their players from a loss, travelling, Jetlag and injury...

I say it was a gamble that was worth taking, and in the end resulted in the Lions first ever Final since the Super 10!!

Do you have any idea how massive it is for the Franchise?? Remember that this is the same team that didn't even participate in the 2013 Competition, was near bankruptcy and even talks of losing their stadium.

While your obvious bias (as usual) is clouding your judgement, why not give them the respect they DESERVE!!

Most of NZ must be bias then because half the rugby commentators over here are perplexed at how dumb a decision it was I even saw an interview with some NZ rugby players a few weeks back and they they thought it was balmy as well... Though they werent complaining.

I really dont see the difference because they didnt have to travel to Arg? Now they are travelling to NZ instead and no home final which is HUGE!!!

Its just simply a crazy decision and could likely cost them the ***le.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Most of NZ must be bias then because half the rugby commentators over here are perplexed at how dumb a decision it was I even saw an interview with some NZ rugby players a few weeks back and they they thought it was balmy as well... Though they werent complaining.

Who were those commentators? Justin Marshall? Jeff Wilson?? Oh look, neither the Crusaders or the Highlanders are in the final...

 

[saulan]

Since we are all giving our opinions here, Here's Ackermanns:

[FONT=&quot]"I'll probably have to live with that decision to rest players against the Jaguares," Ackermann said. "But the question will always remain: would we have won the quarterfinal if I had five or 10 tired and ill players like we had when we came back?[/FONT][FONT=&quot]"I don't know what's right or wrong. But this group has got my back. We don't want it easy; if we have to win there in Wellington to be champions, then that's what we need to do.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"We probably got the harder route to the final but we always said to the group that if we get a tough draw then they must take on the challenge. To turn the tables on the Crusaders and the Highlanders, whom we lost to in the league stage, felt good but we must reset now.[/FONT]

Source: http://www.bdlive.co.za/sport/rugby/2016/08/01/we-are-ready-to-break-the-mould-says-ackermann

 

[WaterboySA]

You didnt even read my post. I never said anything about them not winning this year infact I said the complete opposite. They dropped a game that cost them a home final. A home final in SA with likely a SA ref is a gauranteed Lions victory. They beat the Saders and HL EASILY. IT WAS A DUMB DECISION END OF STORY.

I DID read your post...I just missed where you said "maybe even back to back".........I'm an ass, sorry.

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Who were those commentators? Justin Marshall? Jeff Wilson?? Oh look, neither the Crusaders or the Highlanders are in the final...

I nominate this as comment of the season!

 

[austingtir]

It was Tony Johnstone actually not that he's a suthsayer or anything... infact personally I think he's a bigger **** than Justin. And how dare you bring the best winger come fullback of all time into this!?

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

The coach decided that he would rather take a loss than let his top 15 travel to Argentina......They made the final because of THAT decision....

Wow, you should look at the definition of counterfactual.
You are presenting your thoughts as facts by the way. I do not buy your statement for a second. They could have fielded half the team and substitute most once the score difference was comfortable enough. I do not think that would have made the difference in the QF or SM. You were playing at home and the Lions' tiredness would have been compensated by their opponents' travel schedules.
At this point it is all speculation of course.

We all say that now.
....
While your obvious bias (as usual) is clouding your judgement, why not give them the respect they DESERVE!!

I said it (pretty sure i wasn't the only one) before the Jaguares vs Lions game and i'm pretty sure there are no grounds to call me biased against the lions.
I still think it was a very risky move, one that clearly did not pay off.

Agree to disagree i suppose.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Wow, you should look at the definition of counterfactual.
You are presenting your thoughts as facts by the way. I do not buy your statement for a second. They could have fielded half the team and substitute most once the score difference was comfortable enough. I do not think that would have made the difference in the QF or SM. You were playing at home and the Lions' tiredness would have been compensated by their opponents' travel schedules.
At this point it is all speculation of course.





I said it (pretty sure i wasn't the only one) before the Jaguares vs Lions game and i'm pretty sure there are no grounds to call me biased against the lions.
I still think it was a very risky move, one that clearly did not pay off.

Agree to disagree i suppose.

Uhm, I wasn't quoting you, so get off your high horse...

 

[WaterboySA]

Wow, you should look at the definition of counterfactual.
You are presenting your thoughts as facts by the way. I do not buy your statement for a second. They could have fielded half the team and substitute most once the score difference was comfortable enough. I do not think that would have made the difference in the QF or SM. You were playing at home and the Lions' tiredness would have been compensated by their opponents' travel schedules.
At this point it is all speculation of course.





I said it (pretty sure i wasn't the only one) before the Jaguares vs Lions game and i'm pretty sure there are no grounds to call me biased against the lions.
I still think it was a very risky move, one that clearly did not pay off.

Agree to disagree i suppose.

Yawn.......

You were playing at home and the Lions' tiredness would have been compensated by their opponents' travel schedules.

>You are presenting your thoughts as facts by the way<

Apparently we both do that......it's called opinion by the way.

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To the Highlanders fans....WHO is Marty Banks?My man of the match. He should've started, he was brilliant!

 

[Nubiwan]

Link a post of yours from February (when they schedule was announced) complaining about that and i'll admit you are not being biased.

If you wanna complain about the system you should do so when the system is announced and not after the chips are down.

And Smoke's post is spot on.

I am a complete neutral that started posting on this board about 2 months ago. Yeah I have been registered since before Argentinian teams were allowed in the comp, but never bothered to post on the forum that much. Not sure what difference posting my opinion when the schedule comes out and now has to do with anything. Especially if I don't really give a toss other than seeing decent rugby. My major concern back when the league started was being able to view it on TV on my continent, let alone who got to play who.

Still, the process if flawed, but the league does what they think is best to expand, and provide fair play. In the case of the lions, they got a better deal than the highlanders in terms of the scheduling, and how the playoff system works. Just look at the highlanders travel in their last 3 matches, and total points versus the lions, a team who they already beat this year. To the "neutral" it can appear a little harsh. The outcome of the match (the point spread) was dictated more by travel for the highlanders in the past 3-4 weeks, than anything.

I don't have to disprove any personal bias or otherwise for that to be true. Plus, it is just an opinion, shared by others. Neutral or not.

 

[Nubiwan]

Stupid arguing about a system one can't change
Travelling is a ***** yes, welcome to SA teams life like forever
Lions played really well and deserve their spot, game on comes finals

stupid then having forum to discuss it ..... No?

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We all say that now. But by losing that game, they didn't risk their best players in a match that would've just swapped around the top spots for the tournament, and even then, the chances were that if they had play their top players, they still might have lost. Every SA team that went to Argentina, struggled.

The other thing is their players then had a week off, and didn't travel, something the Crusaders and the Highlanders had to do, which in the end lead to their demise.

So by risking a home final, they saved their players from a loss, travelling, Jetlag and injury...

I say it was a gamble that was worth taking, and in the end resulted in the Lions first ever Final since the Super 10!!

Do you have any idea how massive it is for the Franchise?? Remember that this is the same team that didn't even participate in the 2013 Competition, was near bankruptcy and even talks of losing their stadium.

While your obvious bias (as usual) is clouding your judgement, why not give them the respect they DESERVE!!

This post simply illustrates all I have been saying about the inequity the highlanders faced with having to travel to Argentina, Australia and South Africa in their last 3 matches to face a team they had equaled on points, and already beaten in the league. If someone wants to call me biased, then fill your boots. This, the reigning champions - no less. Almost comical when you add the last line.

the highlanders succumbed more to the rigor of travel and schedule, than anything else. Too bad,so sad, and that's how it goes, but a bit rich having to read through much else on here. Certainly how good SA rugby is going to be next season, when all I have read these past 2 months is the same people complaining how crap it has become with players leaving.

 

[TRF_heineken]

stupid then having forum to discuss it ..... No?

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This post simply illustrates all I have been saying about the inequity the highlanders faced with having to travel to Argentina, Australia and South Africa in their last 3 matches to face a team they had equaled on points, and already beaten in the league. If someone wants to call me biased, then fill your boots. the reigning champions - no less. Almost comical when you add the last line.

Wut??

Once again, I wasn't quoting you when I made that remark, I was responding to austingtir.

I don't know where is all the animosity coming from all the posters all of a sudden.

The Lions were in a position to rest players and still make the playoffs. They did that, and this has helped them get to the final. Other teams have done it in the past and it will happen in future. Other teams could've done the exact same thing had they performed better in the season. The Lions did enough throughout the season to target the Jaguares match as one they could use to their advantage to save their better players for the playoffs and it worked for them.

 

[Nubiwan]

No offence intended in previous post there TRF.

What has disappointed me more than anything in the last two lions games is how poorly both NZ teams have played, and what is difficult for me (the neutral lol) to determine is exactly how much of that is due to the lions being any good. So, in that respect, I am doing a disservice to the lions, who looked bloody good against a side that just travelled 50,000 miles in 3 weeks. Again, this is not a sleight against the lions, but a fact. Until they go and do well in Wellington, many will not be convinced. The final offers up a juicy prospect.

I can honestly say it will disappoint me even more if they went and lost by 40 points to the canes, as all I have said will be vindicated. If they win the final, then anything I have posted to date will be a load of tosh, and they will indeed be worthy champions.

 

[TRF_heineken]

What has disappointed me more than anything in the last two lions games is how poorly both NZ teams have played, and what is difficult for me (the neutral lol) to determine is exactly how much of that is due to the lions being any good. So, in that respect, I am doing a disservice to the lions, who looked bloody good against a side that just travelled 50,000 miles in 3 weeks. Again, this is not a sleight against the lions, but a fact. Until they go and do well in Wellington, many will not be convinced. The final offers up a juicy prospect.

See, I don't get this.

The Lions have already won in NZ this year, against the Chiefs, which isn't an easy game. The Lions have now beaten 4 of the 5 NZ teams, and played 7 games against NZ opposition. That is more than 50% win ratio against NZ teams. They are now left with the Hurricanes, who did beat them in SA, so it's going to be an all out war. Even if the Lions lose, they'd end up with a 50 win ratio against NZ teams.

 

[Nubiwan]

If the highlanders game is anything to go by, then the canes may have a bit of strife at scrum time. That much is clear.

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See, I don't get this.

The Lions have already won in NZ this year, against the Chiefs, which isn't an easy game. The Lions have now beaten 4 of the 5 NZ teams, and played 7 games against NZ opposition. That is more than 50% win ratio against NZ teams. They are now left with the Hurricanes, who did beat them in SA, so it's going to be an all out war. Even if the Lions lose, they'd end up with a 50 win ratio against NZ teams.

you don't get it because you have an emotional attachment. Read what I said. The lions games were a disappointment to me because I thought the NZ teams could play better. I know they can, and I think the outcomes would have been different given different circumstances. I agree that's the luck of the draw, and that is really what is being discussed. I personally don't care who wins the tournament, but can still feel disappointed if I feel I have been robbed of a decent game.

 

[TRF_heineken]

If the highlanders game is anything to go by, then the canes may have a bit of strife at scrum time. That much is clear.

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you don't get it because you have an emotional attachment. Read what I said. The lions games were a disappointment to me because I thought the NZ teams could play better. I know they can, and I think the outcomes would have been different given different circumstances. I agree that's the luck of the draw, and that is really what is being discussed. I personally don't care who wins the tournament, but can still feel disappointed if I feel I have been robbed of a decent game.

So basically you are saying that every person in South Africa, has now an emotional attachment towards the Lions, because they are the only SA team left in the competition, and no matter what our opinions are, and how much merit our arguments are, it's null and void because of our "attachments".

But you on the other hand, who calls himself neutral, seems to always align yourself with just one side.

The Lions game was a disapointment for me too. They shouldn't have taken off Jaco Kriel and Faf de Klerk 60 minutes into the game. They should've kept their stars on the field and kept on scoring tries and decamate the Highlanders because that's what "neutrals" want to see. The Lions shouldn't have rested their stars because player welfare isn't a concern and consolidation of an unassailable lead shouldn't be on their minds.

I get it.

 

[Lions4Life]

wow! what a thread and its only Monday! hahaha

guys. no use bantering on and on and on, let the game do the talking..

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

Uhm, I wasn't quoting you, so get off your high horse...

You, out of all people, telling someone else to get off his/her high horse...
They should put that quote next to Merriam Webster's definition of irony.

Strictly speaking, you said "we all", which includes me.

>You are presenting your thoughts as facts by the way<

My bad, apologies.

Apparently we both do that......it's called opinion by the way.

Nah, it's not. I made a mistake in doing so and acknowledge it.

The Lions game was a disapointment for me too. They shouldn't have taken off Jaco Kriel and Faf de Klerk 60 minutes into the game. They should've kept their stars on the field and kept on scoring tries and decamate the Highlanders because that's what "neutrals" want to see. The Lions shouldn't have rested their stars because player welfare isn't a concern and consolidation of an unassailable lead shouldn't be on their minds.

Spot on. Credit where credit is due.