[2016 RBS Six Nations] Round 5: France vs. England (19/03/2016)

[The Jones Boy]

Yeah it's true this is not yet a great England team and the opposition was not great either, but it's important to remember how low this England team was when Eddie Jones walked onto the scene, and this journey was as well laid out as it could be but England didn't design that, they don't choose the itinerary and in their toughest game, vs Wales at Twickenham, England were arguably up against a better team but Jones out thought Gatland who was too cautious and England dominated the game for 70 minutes and choked enough life out of the Dragons to just keep them out, thats all you have to do.
England can only play whats in front of them. Sure the threat from Ireland has diminished significantly since last season, France are still very average, Scotland are on the rise but still struggle with player depth but England hung on in tough periods of games which takes mental strength and belief and this team was mentally in shreds when the tourney started.
I think they will struggle away in Aussie but it will be character building and I take my hat off to the ERU, Eddie Jones man management skills, Dylan Hartley in his captaincy and the whole squad because Grand Slams are not common and they deserve the kudos that saw them rise from the ashes of the RWC and fly like a Phoenix to the grand prize away in France.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Well it is a tad bitter, but there is a ring of truth to it . At the end of the day, England won a Grand Slam in what was probably a forgettable 6N, not much quality rugby about and none of teams participating made it past the quarters at the 2015 World Cup. I think they a good team in the making, but feet on the ground and all that stuff....

The thing is the only people who are claiming England are claiming they will win everything are those who are using it as a strawman argument. Start by accusing English of saying things they aren't and then accuse them of arrogance for those comments they never said. I have not seen anyone say England are now world beaters or even close. Plenty are saying that is what we AIM to be and would like to be but nobody saying that is what we are. The only thing England could really have done more was to dominate every game, which then would have just been used to say all the opposition were crap and thus the GS doesn't mean anything. Yeah it wasn't a stellar 6N but it wasn't the worst either. Compare number of tries to other slam years:

2016: 71
2012: 46
2010: 48
2009: 56
2008: 50
2005: 71
2004: 68
2003: 74

So in terms of tries scored it is second only to another year England won. I'd say the 2010 and 2012 slams were worse and the 6N at the time was widely regarded as being a dire spectacle with boring, tryless rugby. Ultimately it's lose-lose. If everyone plays well and 1 team just about wins then people come out with ifs and buts and claim the side was not really that much better. If one side dominates then they just say the opposition was rubbish.

 

[johnmac99]

Yeah it's true this is not yet a great England team and the opposition was not great either, but it's important to remember how low this England team was when Eddie Jones walked onto the scene, and this journey was as well laid out as it could be but England didn't design that, they don't choose the itinerary and in their toughest game, vs Wales at Twickenham, England were arguably up against a better team but Jones out thought Gatland who was too cautious and England dominated the game for 70 minutes and choked enough life out of the Dragons to just keep them out, thats all you have to do.
England can only play whats in front of them. Sure the threat from Ireland has diminished significantly since last season, France are still very average, Scotland are on the rise but still struggle with player depth but England hung on in tough periods of games which takes mental strength and belief and this team was mentally in shreds when the tourney started.
I think they will struggle away in Aussie but it will be character building and I take my hat off to the ERU, Eddie Jones man management skills, Dylan Hartley in his captaincy and the whole squad because Grand Slams are not common and they deserve the kudos that saw them rise from the ashes of the RWC and fly like a Phoenix to the grand prize away in France.

Well said sir. I thank you.

I'm sure we will do our best when we visit Australia.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Just a small point Jones Boy, there is no "ERU", it's the "RFU". That perk comes with being the inventors of the sport.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Just a small point Jones Boy, there is no "ERU", it's the "RFU". That perk comes with being the inventors of the sport.

+1

 

[Mumbles119]

Yeah it's true this is not yet a great England team and the opposition was not great either, but it's important to remember how low this England team was when Eddie Jones walked onto the scene, and this journey was as well laid out as it could be but England didn't design that, they don't choose the itinerary and in their toughest game, vs Wales at Twickenham, England were arguably up against a better team but Jones out thought Gatland who was too cautious and England dominated the game for 70 minutes and choked enough life out of the Dragons to just keep them out, thats all you have to do.
England can only play whats in front of them. Sure the threat from Ireland has diminished significantly since last season, France are still very average, Scotland are on the rise but still struggle with player depth but England hung on in tough periods of games which takes mental strength and belief and this team was mentally in shreds when the tourney started.
I think they will struggle away in Aussie but it will be character building and I take my hat off to the ERU, Eddie Jones man management skills, Dylan Hartley in his captaincy and the whole squad because Grand Slams are not common and they deserve the kudos that saw them rise from the ashes of the RWC and fly like a Phoenix to the grand prize away in France.

I agree. Eddie has made the changes that were needed. There is a big list of 'to do' that Eddie has for this England team, but first priority was the right mentality and a clear focus for the players, which I think he achieved. I think the 'to do list' is still long, but see the next priorities as sorting the centres and the back row.

I also agree the Australia tour will be tough, and I wouldn't want it any other way. The last thing I want are big results (such as vs AUS November 2010 or vs NZ Dec 2012) that distort the perception of the development needs the team has. I want tough games that challenge England, show up the development needs and help England to get better on a permanent long term basis. So we start getting the consistent big results, rather than the exception.

Edit:

And results! I also want results, but I hope that goes without saying!

 

[NickBD]

Yeah it's true this is not yet a great England team and the opposition was not great either, but it's important to remember how low this England team was when Eddie Jones walked onto the scene, and this journey was as well laid out as it could be but England didn't design that, they don't choose the itinerary and in their toughest game, vs Wales at Twickenham, England were arguably up against a better team but Jones out thought Gatland who was too cautious and England dominated the game for 70 minutes and choked enough life out of the Dragons to just keep them out, thats all you have to do.
England can only play whats in front of them. Sure the threat from Ireland has diminished significantly since last season, France are still very average, Scotland are on the rise but still struggle with player depth but England hung on in tough periods of games which takes mental strength and belief and this team was mentally in shreds when the tourney started.
I think they will struggle away in Aussie but it will be character building and I take my hat off to the ERU, Eddie Jones man management skills, Dylan Hartley in his captaincy and the whole squad because Grand Slams are not common and they deserve the kudos that saw them rise from the ashes of the RWC and fly like a Phoenix to the grand prize away in France.

Well said.

I'd add England don't have any world call players. But both will change in the next few years. The potential this team has is New Zealand level of good. Obviously all that is potential we might never see England reach that level. Considering this England team had the lowest average age of any of the 6N teams and won this is a great start.

It's England people will always want to put it down. The talent pool, easy opposition, worst 6N in years and so on. Winning a slam with 3 out of 5 away games after that world cup is a great achievement.

I think England has every chance of winning 1 or 2 games down under. England before the world cup had won the last few games against Aus. But it will be tough, after the world cup, long season with the 6N in the middle of it with no break might take it toll on the players. Some of those players will be playing every week from August till May with no break. I hope this Aus tour isn't a tour too far for them. I think some of the players could be rested. This is the first time the Aus squad has been together since the WC, which could work in England's favor.