[2015 Six Nations] Ireland vs England (Round 3)

[munstermuffin]

No, that's not what i'm saying, i'm saying that unless you know how to interpret the data the stats return then you're just whistling in the wind, and waving a tackle count as some proof of someone being world class, is meaningless unless you understand how to interpret that.



No, i'm saying it's OK to miss a tackle if the outcome of that is a positive one for the team - most teams mark on positive/negative otucome and not "how many did he make".

The system Les Kiss uses allows for missed tackles in this way it is the same scoring system as the England one if the tackel is missed but it results in a mistake, or driving the ball carrier into a worse area of the field then it is marked as positive.



again, depends on how and why and what your role within the team is.



because i don't need to. just PM me your opta password and we can use the same Data source to draw our conclusion?



You're the one who said he's a back row he doesn't go wide... you're the one who made that comparison, not me.

At top it's not too different but again believe what you want. I only used what you said was basis so again you move goal posts as you really showing your not interpreting much.

But to miss odd 1 tackle fair enough but to miss few. Come off it if you miss a tackle it's only positive if a teammate saves you.

Can't email password as I am using an IRFU base and wouldn't give out details or software to download. But I'm sure if you do your own analysis it's there online.

But again I glad to see Argentina have roles where an 8s role isn't to make much metres and miss a tackle as its positive. Ha you getting some good excuses in. It's not even about POM being world class for me any more just enjoying your excuses and digging of hole every time

 

[munstermuffin]

Ye are all able to do research no? And GoodNumber stats were based on your comments of what a world class 6 was. Ha your a gas man. Keep digging. You said stats prove I'm saying Robshaw is world class and I say that's now proven. If you don't believe me there's a lot of stats databases online too. So again tell me so I can observe what makes all POM substandard from rest.
Are you going to ***** and moan or answer?
See I'm not saying others aren't world class unlike you but well bows your time to shine. What makes POM "ok" and rest world class.

 

[munstermuffin]

Agreed

I didn't say meters per carry, I want to know how often Robshaw breaks the gain line compared to other players. He never seams to have any epic breaks but he has the perception that he rarely is sent backwards. Meters/carry doesn't prove anything on that front.

Metres per carry would show he goes forward no? Ha lads is this comedy show hour. And metres per carry would in fact show someone that breaks gain line consistently better than someone with epic breaks.

 

[ncurd]

Ye are all able to do research no? And GoodNumber stats were based on your comments of what a world class 6 was. Ha your a gas man. Keep digging. You said stats prove I'm saying Robshaw is world class and I say that's now proven. If you don't believe me there's a lot of stats databases online too. So again tell me so I can observe what makes all POM substandard from reat

We are able to do the research except I'm at work currently and don't have the time to trall through it online and make statistical observations. That's going to take too much of time where I should be working.

You have admit it's pretty unfair to us to just say "the stats don't back you up". We have no idea about context, what range of game are you using? who are you comparing him to and how far behind those players is he? Your pretty much telling us to take your word for something and sucks to be you because I'm not telling you I've got the access.

Understand fully you can't give us access and you probably can't give it out but there's no need to be silly about it.

 

[munstermuffin]

We are able to do the research except I'm at work currently and don't have the time to trall through it online and make statistical observations. That's going to take too much of time where I should be working.

You have admit it's pretty unfair to us to just say "the stats don't back you up". We have no idea about context, what range of game are you using? who are you comparing him to and how far behind those players is he? Your pretty much telling us to take your word for something and sucks to be you because I'm not telling you I've got the access.

Understand fully you can't give us access and you probably can't give it out but there's no need to be silly about it.

I've clearly stated games used. And stats do back me u. As I said I didn't compare Robshaw just briefly looked. I rate Robshaw just maybe more a GN10 but before talking rubble do a check. You can't check as busy is fair but maybe if you argue point like I'm only asking to prove how POM is poorer compared to rest. As in not in same class

 

[goodNumber10]

Ye are all able to do research no? And GoodNumber stats were based on your comments of what a world class 6 was.

No, they were based on what Profitus said world class was, I said all along it was impact i felt they had on the team and when asked who i thought was better on the last 18 months i said three and you went nuts on one of them... there is no point where i claimed that statistically anyone was better than anyone else, but that is all you've focused on.

But to miss odd 1 tackle fair enough but to miss few. Come off it if you miss a tackle it's only positive if a teammate saves you.

Nope.

But again I glad to see Argentina have roles where an 8s role isn't to make much metres and miss a tackle as its positive.

Clearly not what i'm saying.

Ha you getting some good excuses in. It's not even about POM being world class for me any more just enjoying your excuses and digging of hole every time.

Fill your boots, you clearly don't know how to interpret stats into a game context so what's the point of the discussion, you're fixating on one thing and one person who i made an observational comment about.

Can't email password as I am using an IRFU base and wouldn't give out details or software to download. But I'm sure if you do your own analysis it's there online.

How convenient for your argument.

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I've clearly stated games used. And stats do back me u. As I said I didn't compare Robshaw just briefly looked. I rate Robshaw just maybe more a GN10 but before talking rubble do a check. You can't check as busy is fair but maybe if you argue point like I'm only asking to prove how POM is poorer compared to rest. As in not in same class

can you speak English please?

I didn't bring stats into this you did, stats that no one else can see at that. But my point with Robshaw is that he ISN'T world class but has good stats, so by your reckoning someone is world class based only on stats?

I said i felt they make better carries, and better defencsive hits - you interpret that as they do more and cue the stat gloat. Hence my point on interpreting statistics.

but yeah, whatever.

 

[munstermuffin]

No, they were based on what Profitus said world class was, I said all along it was impact i felt they had on the team and when asked who i thought was better on the last 18 months i said three and you went nuts on one of them... there is no point where i claimed that statistically anyone was better than anyone else, but that is all you've focused on.



Nope.



Clearly not what i'm saying.



Fill your boots, you clearly don't know how to interpret stats into a game context so what's the point of the discussion, you're fixating on one thing and one person who i made an observational comment about.



How convenient for your argument.

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can you speak English please?

I didn't bring stats into this you did, stats that no one else can see at that. But my point with Robshaw is that he ISN'T world class but has good stats, so by your reckoning someone is world class based only on stats?

Well I'll start by saying no it's not a convenient as I've posted stats here a long time. And again you can't answer my question as to why you can't answer. I based my answers on viewing and stats.
And where is Robshaws stats good? You said they were not me. Again you can't answer ha and yea I haven't a clue about how to interpret stats - employed by IRFU for Munster and have been in many a team room for video analysis. But sure your the pro but can't show anything other than observation.
You've clearly stated when I mentioned about missed tackles that it depends on game. Show me 1 coach that'd say missed tackles are ok especially more than 1 a game? Regardless of it.
Then as a backrow you say metres run area is pending on game. Show me a coach again who'd back you up. Especially talking about an 8. So I think clearly you haven't a ****ing clue and you are proving it all by yourself.

Yes I speak English too but again you resort to that . No gloating here with stats. Just pointing facts. Also video analysis is done using stats not observation so shows what you know and yeah defensive hits but 1 big hit here and there etc isn't world class. Consistency is but I'm sure you'll bring another excuse in.

 

[Maverick1987]

Well, taking openside for example being world class. Chris Robshaw. By world class, I would define that as being he could challenge / overtake other players for the starting shirt in the top teams.
Ireland - O'Brien
Wales - Warburton
France - Dusautoir
South Africa - Louw?
New Zealand - McCaw
Australia - Pocock / Hooper

How many of those would Robshaw even get ahead of in your opinion?
Of course, I'm not including Armitage but if I could then he would 100% be world class.

I find it difficult sometimes to understand what some people portray as world class . It makes no odds if Robshaw wouldn't get in ahead of some others . It's what your skills do for your own team . I'm sorry but almost everytime Robshaw steps on the field he's the best player on England's team . For me England cannot afford to lose Robshaw as much as any of these teams lose the players you have stated . How many players playing in the six nations made 45 tackles in the opening 2 games ? That's world class workrate if you ask me .... As a matter of fact I'd be surprised if there was a long list of players who made over 30 tackles in the first 2 games ....

 

[munstermuffin]

do you have a link you can share with us? Comparative stats?

I've listed above 3 i think are better players than POM, better ball carries and defenders, players who excel outside of their teams systems.

POM fits a system, but pull him out of that system, put him into Wales, or France or England or Scotland and what impact do you think he'd have?

Was it profitius who said
Based on better ball carries
Better defensive player
POM actually plays in 2 different systems. I'd think POM would impact all those mentioned teams.

Wait I'm quoting GN10. But he didn't say a good player was based on those

Excuses for this by postcard please
Although let me guess missed tackles , turnovers and tackles are pointless for defensive stats.
Ball carries and metres made have nothing to do with carrier stats.
And I've no idea

 

[goodNumber10]

Well I'll start by saying no it's not a convenient as I've posted stats here a long time. And again you can't answer my question as to why you can't answer. I based my answers on viewing and stats.

what exactly am i supposed to be answering?

And where is Robshaws stats good? You said they were not me.

Robshaw has had huge tackle counts etc... lately.

Again you can't answer ha and yea I haven't a clue about how to interpret stats - employed by IRFU for Munster and have been in many a team room for video analysis.

Yet you don't seem to understand Positive/Negative defensive systems, which Ireland actually use.

But sure your the pro but can't show anything other than observation.

Where do i claim to be the pro?

I do understand stats though and how to interpret them, and unless you use a public resource or have access to the same statistical Data as you then a statistical discussion is pointless. As there is no way i can interpret the data, and counter your points.

You've clearly stated when I mentioned about missed tackles that it depends on game. Show me 1 coach that'd say missed tackles are ok especially more than 1 a game? Regardless of it.
Then as a backrow you say metres run area is pending on game. Show me a coach again who'd back you up. Especially talking about an 8.

No, i didn't. I presented a context in which the stats can be interpreted differently to basic %'s.

Additionally I've never at any stage said certain peoples stats were better than others.
There needs to be a rule on here, public data for stats gloating or don't bring it to the party.

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Was it profitius who said
Based on better ball carries
Better defensive player
POM actually plays in 2 different systems. I'd think POM would impact all those mentioned teams.

Wait I'm quoting GN10. But he didn't say a good player was based on those

Excuses for this by postcard please

better doesn't = more.

But you're the stats guru.

 

[munstermuffin]

what exactly am i supposed to be answering?



Robshaw has had huge tackle counts etc... lately.



Yet you don't seem to understand Positive/Negative defensive systems, which Ireland actually use.




Where do i claim to be the pro?

I do understand stats though and how to interpret them, and unless you use a public resource or have access to the same statistical Data as you then a statistical discussion is pointless. As there is no way i can interpret the data, and counter your points.



No, i didn't. I presented a context in which the stats can be interpreted differently to basic %'s.

Additionally I've never at any stage said certain peoples stats were better than others.
There needs to be a rule on here, public data for stats gloating or don't bring it to the party.

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better doesn't = more.

But you're the stats guru.

Ha man keep going. Are you a politican? Because you bull**** around it a lot.

Regards Robshaw ok 1 stat - tackles (in which he's missed a few in Nov games) what else.

Again you must be slow as you can use many stats online but again like here your just lazy and can't seem to grasp. And at least I know you haven't a clue. You can't say exactly how POM is a lesser player.

And I understand Ireland's defensive system. But Schmidt dropped TOD last year for missing 2 tackles vs Wales. Is Schmidts standards wrong so as in observation they were positives (1 eventually allowed turnover for pen).

See you keep shifting blame making excuses.

Better doesn't equal more but it's show clearly it's not as effective either in certain areas. Leguizamon played 1 game in rugby championship missing 4 tackles but you saw that as your a big fan of his defense. Yet can't even offer evidence as a defense.

 

[profitius]

Ha man keep going. Are you a politican? Because you bull**** around it a lot.
.

I wouldn't waste too much energy on him/her, MM.

 

[munstermuffin]

Oh yeah maybe you should even look at yourself. You said Profitius said something when it was clearly you as was shown. But you'll have excuse again

 

[munstermuffin]

I wouldn't waste too much energy on him/her, MM.

He quoted you too man but again he forgot it was him guess there more than 1 thing he lost with

 

[goodNumber10]

He quoted you too man but again he forgot it was him guess there more than 1 thing he lost with

what are you even talking about?

Do you actually know?

 

[munstermuffin]

what are you even talking about?

Do you actually know?

Me: GN said a good player is based on stats from what you said were attributes.

GN: No I didn't say that. That was Profitius.

Me: Quotes you saying it

GN: AGAIN makes another excuse and tries to deflect.

Yeah I know what I actually on about. But I genuinely think you don't and well 2 recent PM's seem to back me up. You really haven't much clues so yea reply with your excuse or attempt to deflect and say something back to divert away. You seem experienced at it

 

[goodNumber10]

Ha man keep going. Are you a politican? Because you bull**** around it a lot.

Regards Robshaw ok 1 stat - tackles (in which he's missed a few in Nov games) what else.

Again you must be slow as you can use many stats online but again like here your just lazy and can't seem to grasp.

different sources = different stats.

If you can link me to a database of player stats that are easily manipulable that'd be great.

And at least I know you haven't a clue. You can't say exactly how POM is a lesser player.

No, i instead said what i felt they were better at.

And I understand Ireland's defensive system. But Schmidt dropped TOD last year for missing 2 tackles vs Wales. Is Schmidts standards wrong so as in observation they were positives (1 eventually allowed turnover for pen).

did he?

See you keep shifting blame making excuses.

nto at all, i've been very clear from the off, but you can't see past the stats because you feel that gives you the upper hand..

Better doesn't equal more but it's show clearly it's not as effective either in certain areas. Leguizamon played 1 game in rugby championship missing 4 tackles but you saw that as your a big fan of his defense. Yet can't even offer evidence as a defense.

He played four times in the RC, twice at 8 then twice at 6 when Senatore came back, then he got badly injured and missed the rest of the year.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

...Anyway.

Either of you guys like...fishing?

 

[goodNumber10]

Me: GN said a good player is based on stats from what you said were attributes.

GN: No I didn't say that. That was Profitius.

Me: Quotes you saying it

GN: AGAIN makes another excuse and tries to deflect.

Yeah I know what I actually on about. But I genuinely think you don't and well 2 recent PM's seem to back me up. You really haven't much clues so yea reply with your excuse or attempt to deflect and say something back to divert away. You seem experienced at it

I never said stats. You get that right? it doesn't seem like you do, it seems like you think i said stats when in fact you were the only person to bring stats up.

Had a few PM's about you as well mate.... funny that, eh?

 

[valley commando]

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I don't think anyone in the history of international Rugby has said Chris Robshaw was world class have they?

He's the most divisive captain we've had in ages.

World Class England Players:
Brown
JJ
Tuilagi
Ford
Vunipola
Morgan
Attwood
Lawes
Launchbury
Corbisiero
Youngs
Vunipola2
Cole
Hartley

Cole, Brown, Launchbury and thats it, 3 world class players, although I do think Morgan when fit is getting better and I like Parling as for Robshaw he's always looked more a 6 than 7.