[2015 Six Nations] Ireland vs England (Round 3)

[twinytwo]

If nothing else we have learned that Goode should never EVER be back in the England side. Utterly ****e in a team that was very poor. A Fullback beaten by a 12 in a jump behind your own try line!? Absolutely no excuse and as for his attempts at running... Seriously, we need to get rid of him.

To be fair to Goode that was a very difficult ball to try and take.... and robbie is a FB as well.

 

[TheSaffycen]

Ireland have France, Italy, Canada and Romania. They should win all their games easily then they will have probably Argentina or Tonga (most likely Arg) then who knows ?

 

[msf]

It's true Walshe hasn't done much for the Gloucester attack, except stop them running laterally, and Alex King might be a better, more experienced coach, but I was going for units who were used to working with each other.

 

[munstermuffin]

Received a text that Paulie will never play a competitive game in green at the Aviva anymore. Love the way he's kept that to himself and not made an issue of it. Just hope he gets another game in a red jersey there. He will obviously play there in warm ups. Again what a man. Next game is his 100th cap.

Regards MOTM, having watched highlights and looked at stats Best, POM and possibly Toner were out in front of rest overall in pack probably but every member of pack performed superb. But Murray for me was immense after the way he took control when Sexton left field.

Fun stat Tommy O'Donnell has never lost in Irish shirt.

 

[Captain Robshaw]

Really disappointed at the lack of intensity in the pack. Haskell has one excellent performance and kids us again into thinking he could have a real impact at this level and then goes completely off the boil again. To be honest I thought we were very poor against Italy and we didn't appear to have any grunt or mongrel in us at all today.

Disappointed in Ford but then he wasn't offered a great deal of protection. JJ and Nowell stuck to their tasks admirably and Billy went well up front. Bench improved things and I wonder if it's time to start Youngs over Hartley. Ben Youngs is a real odd one, I find it strange how out of favour Care has become after a few average displays. It's not like Youngs isn't distinctly average himself a good deal of the time.

Credit to Ireland who are superbly coached and always seem to play with intelligence and make the most of their strengths.

 

[msf]

I think that come Lions time, with Ford getting more experience, it will still be a close thing between him and Sexton, but I can't see anyone really challenging Murray for the 9 jersey.

 

[twinytwo]

food for thought here people...... what happens when JS takes over the All Blacks? (he will stay with Irleand another while and prob have the next lions tour) He will end up there eventually....

 

[Peat]

Really think England are going to be a force to be reckoned with in a year or two. Lancaster needs to trust his players and believe in them, and stop dropping them when something goes wrong. It's kind of like the criticism of Payne and Henshaw, yet Schmidt continues to let them grow, and it is this confidence that he is giving the players that is making the difference. Lancaster just needs to find his ideal centre partnership, as well as 11 and 14 and stick with it. Let it develop. But people should be excited about what england potentially have to offer come a year or two.

People have been saying that for a year or two already. I'm not sure what makes it truer now than it was a year or two, and we all know now that's just not true.

I agree, I probably used the wrong choice of words, but I do believe the difference is the coaching. Ireland haven't been completely overhauled by Schmidt as such. The players that played under both Kidney and Schmidt have shown sustained improvement under Schmidt. Guys like Conor Murray, who I never previously rated, have become extremely talented under Schmidt.

You expect players to come onto the international scene and spend the next couple of years building on their performances, developing into real quality players. What have we seen in 4 years of Lancaster? An unpredictable shimmying of quality in our backline, resulting in the chop and change. The chop and change is a fairly clear indicator that the coaching staff do not know how to put together a well-drilled backline; easier to drop a player and shift the blame to them, than realise your own issues. When so many players have been through the system and failed to make an impact, you wonder whether it is the players, or the system, that is at fault.

Had we gotten the coaching right in 2012, our player base would be a lot more impressive right now.

The only thing I have to argue with there is that it can be both players and system, and its looking more and more like that to me.

If anyone has brainwaves regarding what England's gameplan today might have been, please PM me, because I'd be delighted to hear theories. For example, our kick-offs made no sense, insofar as they were uncontestable and allowed Zebo to run it back from deep. I don't think Ford had a good game today to be honest, though he wasn't helped by those around him. There's no point beating about the bush; I rate Ford hugely and he'll bounce back, but it's dishonest to pretend sometimes having such a small guy at 10 doesn't make a difference in defence. @goodNumber10 is right about this issue in general, as it was clear to see Ireland make ground every time they ran at Ford today.

I think it started with "At least draw the set-piece and territorial battle" and when we got that one wrong, well... Kick-off made sense though. Zebo never got out of his 22 and from there, if Ireland have to kick to clear, theoretically you get the ball back in midfield. But, well, theory. But never anything wrong with kicking deep to the wing.

And yeah, agree with what you said about Ford. He will always be a fantastic talent but there's some interesting questions coming up if Slade can put together some time 10 for Exeter...

 

[The Jones Boy]

This is largely due to the losses of Lawes/Launchbury

No mate.
You can't replace a top class no.7's speed by introducing a lock, not even one as quick as Lawes, it just doesn't worjk that way.
The Boks have been trying it for decades and there is no way to replicate the speed to a breakdown required except playing a specialist no.7
Ireland showed up England badly today at the breakdown and it was down to speed.
Locks are not going to change that.

 

[ratsapprentice]

And yeah, agree with what you said about Ford. He will always be a fantastic talent but there's some interesting questions coming up if Slade can put together some time 10 for Exeter...

I think I said it a year or so ago (when Slade first started playing in the prem after the JWC) - Slade and Ford will be our FH combo in the run up to and during the 2019 RWC.

 

[bw245]

food for thought here people...... what happens when JS takes over the All Blacks? (he will stay with Irleand another while and prob have the next lions tour) He will end up there eventually....

Dad and I just discussing that a minute ago. It's sad to think that one day he will leave but it's going to happen. There is no coach in world rugby better than him at the moment, unless maybe one of the background staff like Les Kiss comes in or something, who I would assume has learnt a lot from Schmidt. However, I think we'll get about 3/4 more years out of Schmidt so let's enjoy him while he's here.

 

[Wendigo7]

I'd quite like to see Mike Catt given more of a role. Our back play in Argentina was really nice, and i think there was some real influence of his in our back play in 2014 6N's.

I don't know what's happened since then but we played some lovely rugby, and we obviosuly still can (the strike move for the Joseph try against Italy was lovely)

Farrell is head coach basically.

Lanny doesn't do any of the coaching. He's said this time and time again that he does mostly media and selection, none of the coaching. I don't rate our coaches and some of the players.

With regards to Ford, I thought he played quite well. He had 1 or 2 poor exit kicks and one dump tackle on him (not punished), but he played well ball in hand. Some of the backs weren't up to speed with him I felt.

I also think and I've said elsewhere, I think we deliberately use the Up and Under as Territory gain only, it is not a means to contest whatsoever, it's been like this for 3 years. It's used to give time for the defence to align and move up the field and gain territory, put pressure on and force a turnover.

IT HAS BEEN THIS WAY SINCE AD NEASEUM. We do not and deliberately do not challenge under the high ball. This actually got exposed today.

 

[Crapspray]

Locks are not going to change that.

I slightly disagree. Launchbury hits something dizzying, like thirty rucks a game. Both he and lawes are light, athletic locks so will get to the ruck a second quicker than Attwood and Kruis. It's the same principle you -rightly- pointed out with Robshaw.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Farrell is head coach basically.

Lanny doesn't do any of the coaching. He's said this time and time again that he does mostly media and selection, none of the coaching.

I don't think that's quite true - he is a coach and he does caoch in this setup, I think it's more as a coordinator than actually going into detail

To use a musical analogy he's an executive producer, Farrell and Rowntree are his lead engineers/mixers and Catt is the tea-boy.*

*I do realise that this will mean practically nothing for some people.

 

[Alistair Inglis]

Decent performance from Ireland... we'll until Sexton went off. He is so important that the Grandslam only seems possible with Sexton fit at the moment.

This result could well be the best thing that could have happened to England as far as the WC is concerned. They looked overly-confident before refusing the kick at goal at 6-3. As a Welshman I have witnessed my team going into certain games with too much confidence and refusing to play the percentages. It rarely ends well against a top-tier nation.

Sexton is pivotal yes, but if we don't have him then we'll be competitive enough, although in that event, it might well be Keatley in the starting 10 shirt and not Madigan.

Ally

 

[Ospreylian]

Congratulations Ireland, a good result under pressure now that there is so much expectation constantly being placed on this team.

English fans, I don't think you have to get too upset about the result. The Aviva seems to be an exceptionally difficult place to play and the crowd is always insane. Best crowd of the tournament so far, the noise sounded unbelievable from the first whistle. Around half time I had a feeling the game might slip away from England and they would crumble and concede 20 or 30 points, but fair play to them, they seemed to dig in and keep going. That attitude is something that's vitally important when it comes down to points difference at the end of the tournament, so bravo England for the never-say-die-ness of it all.

Connor Murray was fantastic, he has well and truly won me over. I never used to rate him that highly but he seems to have matured and is now a lot quicker. Although Ireland are worse off when Sexton is not on the pitch I think Madigan did a great job at keeping things stable and playing a tight game. He's not exactly a bad guy to have on the bench.

I thought Haskell had another good game and got his hands on the ball quite a lot, making metres when he needed to. I still cannot understand why May was dropped from the 23, I was not impressed at all by Nowell today, and to be honest I am yet to see him have a good game. I know people rate him at club level so there must be something he can bring to the field, it's just from what I have seen of him so far he just doesn't seem to cut it at international level.

If Wales manage to pull off a win in 2 weeks time it's going to be a fascinating climax to the tournament.

 

[goodNumber10]

I think I said it a year or so ago (when Slade first started playing in the prem after the JWC) - Slade and Ford will be our FH combo in the run up to and during the 2019 RWC.

slade for me has all the attributes to be the perfect England 10 - he's skillful, can run and pass, can kick, is a big guy and is quite happy mixing it up.... he could probably slot in anywhere in the midfield and still preform.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't think that's quite true - he is a coach and he does caoch in this setup, I think it's more as a coordinator than actually going into detail

To use a musical analogy he's an executive producer, Farrell and Rowntree are his lead engineers/mixers and Catt is the tea-boy.*

*I do realise that this will mean practically nothing for some people.

makes absolute perfect sense to me.

 

[Tony Manx]

Yeah like you blood a new player 9 months out from RWC!!

 

[Peat]

English fans, I don't think you have to get too upset about the result. The Aviva seems to be an exceptionally difficult place to play and the crowd is always insane. Best crowd of the tournament so far, the noise sounded unbelievable from the first whistle. Around half time I had a feeling the game might slip away from England and they would crumble and concede 20 or 30 points, but fair play to them, they seemed to dig in and keep going. That attitude is something that's vitally important when it comes down to points difference at the end of the tournament, so bravo England for the never-say-die-ness of it all.

The result, one can accept, but the performance...?

In isolation maybe it was nothing that enraging but there is a picture that has built up over multiple performances where we continually make the same errors again and again with no sign of it abating. That, for me, is something to get upset about. Yes, we have commitment in spades and no small amount of talent, but those things alone are not enough.

Maybe I'll feel I'm overreacting in time but I doubt it. It looks like England have reached their ceiling in this current form, and the ceiling is a good deal lower than we all hoped.

 

[goodNumber10]

The result, one can accept, but the performance...?

In isolation maybe it was nothing that enraging but there is a picture that has built up over multiple performances where we continually make the same errors again and again with no sign of it abating. That, for me, is something to get upset about. Yes, we have commitment in spades and no small amount of talent, but those things alone are not enough.

Maybe I'll feel I'm overreacting in time but I doubt it. It looks like England have reached their ceiling in this current form, and the ceiling is a good deal lower than we all hoped.

Don't think you are overreacting, i think they've done well up till th last few months. I think they've re-invograted England and what it means to be England, but there is certainly a top 10% missing from this team in it's current form - they do turn it on for certain games but they are deffo short a couple of key positions.

Maybe that's coaches, but i also think it's personnel, a world class scrum half is sorely lacking, back three needs work - the midfield, it's hard to tell, i think Burrell is good enough, but probably fits 13 at this level better. so we're still looking for that elusive 12 (it's not Eastmond, it's not Burgess), and we're still looking for wan absolutely devastating ball carrying number 6.