[2015 Six Nations] Ireland vs England (Round 3)

[Patchey]

Having watched the game with a few beers my verdict is that Ireland were the better team but the refereeing was terrible.

England did not deserve to win, we were dominated up front and seemed to lack structure in the backs. Whereas Ireland where disciplined and very well organised.

BUT, some terrible referring at the breakdown in particular made things very frustrating.

I'm not really sure why you have taken such a massive dislike to me - from post one in the Italy thread you have been constantly on my case trying to prove everything i say wrong or belittle any observation i make, it's wearing increidbly thin and there really is no need for it...

Because you're secretly Andy Farrell and must be opposed at all points?

 

[Wendigo7]

Don't think you are overreacting, i think they've done well up till th last few months. I think they've re-invograted England and what it means to be England, but there is certainly a top 10% missing from this team in it's current form - they do turn it on for certain games but they are deffo short a couple of key positions.

Maybe that's coaches, but i also think it's personnel, a world class scrum half is sorely lacking, back three needs work - the midfield, it's hard to tell, i think Burrell is good enough, but probably fits 13 at this level better. so we're still looking for that elusive 12 (it's not Eastmond, it's not Burgess), and we're still looking for wan absolutely devastating ball carrying number 6.

Yeah that's fair enough.

Would you consider Slade at 12?

 

[goodNumber10]

Because you're secretly Andy Farrell and must be opposed at all points?

hehehehe!it's enough to make me dislike myself...

 

[chippieolamus]

I'd love to see Slade/JJ or Slade/Tuilagi with Ford inside them.

 

[goodNumber10]

Yeah that's fair enough.

Would you consider Slade at 12?

absolutely.

 

[profitius]

Good win. Went as I hoped it would. Both teams had periods of dominance but Ireland were better in most areas of the game, without doing anything great.

Alex Goode was very good for England. They'd want to get a new 12 though.

Under Schmidt Ireland seem to always take the lead and then spend the last 20 min defending. Madigan didn't help in that regard.

 

[valley commando]

I think that come Lions time, with Ford getting more experience, it will still be a close thing between him and Sexton, but I can't see anyone really challenging Murray for the 9 jersey.

Agree with Murray for 9, but 10 has to be between Sexton and Biggar, neither seem to ever have a bad game. Ford is not international class.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Even though we looked out of sorts with ball in hand, we still made twice the metres Ireland did, made many more clean breaks and beat significantly more defenders. I watched the game, but still have no clue how wasteful and error-prone we must have been to not turn that into more points.

I wish I had twitter...I feel like haranguing Lancaster for picking the slowest professional rugby player in history at full-back.

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Good win. Went as I hoped it would. Both teams had periods of dominance but Ireland were better in most areas of the game, without doing anything great.

Alex Goode was very good for England. They'd want to get a new 12 though.

Please tell me you're joking.

 

[munstermuffin]

Few stats. Up on IRFU system.

England's tackling was much better than ours. Made more but we missed 9 more than them.
Tommy O'Donnell and Henshaw were our main tacklers well Henshaw was 13 made 6 missed, Tommy was 13 made 0 missed.
Zebo was the best on field for fielding today. 9 successful and 1 knock on.
In the tight Jordi Murphy and O'Mahony were the best 2 going forward around rucks.
Interesting 1 I love looking at is the "Decision Making stat". Don't know what it means or how it ranks but Madigan was worst on 42% followed by Kearney on 53%. Murphy and O'Donnell tied on 77% were only bettered by Ross on 78%.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Few stats. Up on IRFU system.

England's tackling was much better than ours. Made more but we missed 9 more than them.
Tommy O'Donnell and Henshaw were our main tacklers well Henshaw was 13 made 6 missed, Tommy was 13 made 0 missed.
Zebo was the best on field for fielding today. 9 successful and 1 knock on.
In the tight Jordi Murphy and O'Mahony were the best 2 going forward around rucks.
Interesting 1 I love looking at is the "Decision Making stat". Don't know what it means or how it ranks but Madigan was worst on 42% followed by Kearney on 53%. Murphy and O'Donnell tied on 77% were only bettered by Ross on 78%.

Any turnover and penalty stats for us Muff?

 

[LiRFCMatt]

Agree with Murray for 9, but 10 has to be between Sexton and Biggar, neither seem to ever have a bad game. Ford is not international class.

Sexton is much better than Biggar, and you have to remember it was only a few weeks ago when Ford proved he is international class, when he performed better than Biggar.

 

[goodNumber10]

Few stats. Up on IRFU system.

England's tackling was much better than ours. Made more but we missed 9 more than them.
Tommy O'Donnell and Henshaw were our main tacklers well Henshaw was 13 made 6 missed, Tommy was 13 made 0 missed.
Zebo was the best on field for fielding today. 9 successful and 1 knock on.
In the tight Jordi Murphy and O'Mahony were the best 2 going forward around rucks.
Interesting 1 I love looking at is the "Decision Making stat". Don't know what it means or how it ranks but Madigan was worst on 42% followed by Kearney on 53%. Murphy and O'Donnell tied on 77% were only bettered by Ross on 78%.

but look at time in opponents half:

Ireland 61% in the first half and 51% in the second - that to me indicates everything we did was in our own half.

plus Error Count is massive: 58 to England, 48 to Ireland

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Any turnover and penalty stats for us Muff?

8 turnovers, to Englands 4, Penalties 8 - 13.

 

[shtove]

Ireland - They are the goods, gosh they were disciplined and composed today. A real treat to watch the organisation and execution.
Looking at Ireland today reminded me of the All Blacks playing against South Africa in the Republic. We seem smaller and quicker while the Boks are bigger and more robust but generally not as quick or quite as efficient.
Ireland looked smaller and speedier today and their loose forwards kept winning the contact situation, or slowing it down, because they physically quicker and more agile than their lumpy counterparts. Robs haw (not a 7) Haskell and Vunipola are all men mountains but they all lack pace and agility compared the the smaller more modern speedy sniffers and thats why England were found out at the breakdown so often, or had their ball slowed down.
Lancaster and co. look like they are copying the Bok loose forward model where they will happily go without a lightning no.7 with an unhealthy disregard for their well being. In the big contests the more mobile forwards give you a little something extra across the board. So it was for Ireland today. They tackled like demons and they did it in unity. Regularly they caught England out for speed at the breakdown and pressured the possession in a tight professional manner.
God help us when they light up their backline.
Superb team performance by Ireland, a green machine where every cog was running smoothly with discipline.
Impressive.

I was waiting for an NZ'er analysis - I've learned a lot about RU from the connoisseurs on this forum.

That point about mobility, especially in the backrow, was raised in the AB game more than a year ago - Conrad Smith. And I think that was borne out today.

As an Ireland fan, I love Schimdy's results but I don't like the style, and I don't think Ireland has the ability to hit through the midfield. Great to see Henshaw claim an excellent score, but it's all around the edges.

As an RU fan the thing I was most looking forward to was Joseph's performance ... oh dear. However talented England are out wide, they cannot afford to be out-thought up front, and Ireland clearly crushed their braincells today. One good example in the first half was the unopposed lineout maul on Ireland's 22 - I think it turned into a penalty for England, but they were perplexed, didn't know how to take maximum advantage.

One more thing - justified complaints about the early lineout for Ireland, when England scooped the penalty kick back into play. I think the defence-angle replay shows the touch judge was unsighted by an England player, so he erred on the side of caution. Right thing to do, but a pity when good skill is punished.

 

[munstermuffin]

Any turnover and penalty stats for us Muff?

Will check in 5 but will easily say our discipline was better.

11 turnovers. Bowe had 3 TOD had 2. Conceded 8 pens and earned 13. Jordi was responsible for 2 conceded but involved in 2 won as was TOD and McGrath was involved in 3. 1 doesn't mean alone. For example I know TOD and McGrath were both credited with 1 for same pen won. It how the IRFU opta stats is done whatever way lads analyse it.

 

[Peat]

Don't think you are overreacting, i think they've done well up till th last few months. I think they've re-invograted England and what it means to be England, but there is certainly a top 10% missing from this team in it's current form - they do turn it on for certain games but they are deffo short a couple of key positions.

Maybe that's coaches, but i also think it's personnel, a world class scrum half is sorely lacking, back three needs work - the midfield, it's hard to tell, i think Burrell is good enough, but probably fits 13 at this level better. so we're still looking for that elusive 12 (it's not Eastmond, it's not Burgess), and we're still looking for wan absolutely devastating ball carrying number 6.

Yeah. Few more areas I'd point out as well, although from there we're getting nitpicky, but I guess nitpicking is what gets you the rest of the way.

I definitely think it's coaching though. The rucking - I fail to see how that's not coaching.

 

[bw245]

Can we discuss JJ? What happened to him today? Only remember one time where he actually looked slightly dangerous.

 

[profitius]

Even though we looked out of sorts with ball in hand, we still made twice the metres Ireland did, made many more clean breaks and beat significantly more defenders. I watched the game, but still have no clue how wasteful and error-prone we must have been to not turn that into more points.

I wish I had twitter...I feel like haranguing Lancaster for picking the slowest professional rugby player in history at full-back.

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Please tell me you're joking.

Not joking at all. Goode had a lot to deal with and got England out of some awkward positions.


When looking at the meters made you have to take into account all the times England ran back the ball from Ireland kicks... which was alot.

 

[goodNumber10]

Can we discuss JJ? What happened to him today? Only remember one time where he actually looked slightly dangerous.

what happened is his team folded in and he was starved of any quality attacking possession... hardly a reflection on him.

 

[ratsapprentice]

I definitely think it's coaching though. The rucking - I fail to see how that's not coaching.

It has to be - they've been doing it since the Wales game.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Can we discuss JJ? What happened to him today? Only remember one time where he actually looked slightly dangerous.

He came up against a structured defence and had no element of surprise.