[2015 Six Nations] Ireland vs England (Round 3)

[profitius]

No mate.
You can't replace a top class no.7's speed by introducing a lock, not even one as quick as Lawes, it just doesn't worjk that way.
The Boks have been trying it for decades and there is no way to replicate the speed to a breakdown required except playing a specialist no.7
Ireland showed up England badly today at the breakdown and it was down to speed.
Locks are not going to change that.

Good point however its something that gets overlooked. People in Ireland are forever complaining about the size of the Irish backrow being too small.

 

[TommiG88]

I feel with a proven coaching team, England could be a lot better. Lancaster has little experience along with Farrell however they are running the national side.

I would have a few changes for our next game. I would like to see a rampaging 6 into the team (ewers haha) and wood on the bench. Lawes I think will be starting against Scotland. I thought mako deserves another bench slot again as he did well when he came on. Cole was out best player in my opinion.

Hopefully brown is fit and we really need to find a 9. I feel for care as he was superb a year ago and he got shafted pretty quickly by the staff when he went a tad off form. I would have wiggles starting and care to come on and quicken the pace.

 

[bw245]

what happened is his team folded in and he was starved of any quality attacking possession... hardly a reflection on him.

shame really, he has massive potential!

Also - Mike Ross - written off by so many! He had a great game today when a lot of us thought he would come up short against a strong English scrum. Chuffed for him.

Healy looked hungry today. As much as I love how McGrath is developing, I think Healy will be back to number 1 choice very soon..

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Not joking at all. Goode had a lot to deal with and got England out of some awkward positions.


When looking at the meters made you have to take into account all the times England ran back the ball from Ireland kicks... which was alot.

He got us out of trouble on one occasion, and did so very well. But any other full-back wouldn't have been 'in trouble' because they would have been quick enough to get to the ball and get a kick away. It was painful seeing him plod back like a disabled goose. He was poor under the high ball, when running it back he couldn't beat the first defender and went backwards in the tackle (giving Ireland rucking momentum) and he should have done better for Henshaws try.

 

[goodNumber10]

Good point however its something that gets overlooked. People in Ireland are forever complaining about the size of the Irish backrow being too small.

A good point apart from the fact Ireland didn't play a specialist 7 did they?

Front 5 that can lock out and attack the set piece allows your 7/6 combo to get off and at the ball. Specialists 7's are normally good because they play behind a solid pack that does the grunt work first and foremost.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

A good point apart from the fact Ireland didn't play a specialist 7 did they?

Front 5 that can lock out and attack the set piece allows your 7/6 combo to get off and at the ball. Specialists 7's are normally good because they play behind a solid pack that does the grunt work first and foremost.

Ireland don't play a traditional back row like England attempt to. Robshaw acting as a 7 with Haskell and Vunipola playing as traditional 6 and 8s is a flawed system. Apart from Tommy O'Donnell who hasn't had significant playing time at 8 and Jordi Murphy at 6 Ireland's backrows today have had significant gametime in all the positions of the backrow at high levels of rugby, Schmidt isn't employing a system of having a 6, 7 and 8 but rather 3 auxiliary backrows and he's found a wonderful backrow. I honestly think Jordi fits it better than Heaslip.

 

[bw245]

Ireland don't play a traditional back row like England attempt to. Robshaw acting as a 7 with Haskell and Vunipola playing as traditional 6 and 8s is a flawed system. Apart from Tommy O'Donnell who hasn't had significant playing time at 8 and Jordi Murphy at 6 Ireland's backrows today have had significant gametime in all the positions of the backrow at high levels of rugby, Schmidt isn't employing a system of having a 6, 7 and 8 but rather 3 auxiliary backrows and he's found a wonderful backrow. I honestly think Jordi fits it better than Heaslip.

Totally agree about Heaslip there. Think Jordi brings something very exciting. I'm very excited about him developing.

 

[valley commando]

Sexton is much better than Biggar, and you have to remember it was only a few weeks ago when Ford proved he is international class, when he performed better than Biggar.

YOU ARE JOKING, ford was behind a dominant pack against us and looked ok, Biggar still looked good whilst our scrum was ****e

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Biggar still looked good

For the first 15-20mins, at which point he got a taxi home - or might as well have for as much impact as he had in the rest of the game.

 

[Patchey]

I feel Goode may be getting hard done by here...he did a decent but uninspiring job. He was part of the problem but by no means the cause of it.

But also, screw you waddling Alex Goode!

 

[goodNumber10]

Ireland don't play a traditional back row like England attempt to. Robshaw acting as a 7 with Haskell and Vunipola playing as traditional 6 and 8s is a flawed system. Apart from Tommy O'Donnell who hasn't had significant playing time at 8 and Jordi Murphy at 6 Ireland's backrows today have had significant gametime in all the positions of the backrow at high levels of rugby, Schmidt isn't employing a system of having a 6, 7 and 8 but rather 3 auxiliary backrows and he's found a wonderful backrow. I honestly think Jordi fits it better than Heaslip.

Doesn't change my point in anyway - you don't play a traditional 7, and the reason SOB (and today TOD) is so effective as a 7 is because your front 5 give him a platform to launch off.

Not becaus eIreland play a traditional fetcher as they are alluding to up there ^^^^^

 

[msf]

Biggar is okay, but seeing as Gatland preferred Farrell to him for the Lions, and Ford has now usurped Farrell, I doubt Biggar will be going on the next Lions tour.

 

[Jbobo]

Ireland once again executed their game plan brilliantly. Dominated the game in most sectors, well played. Quite nervous for next week, but feel like Wales might have something to challenge Ireland. We shall see


Oh and on the Ford-Biggar debate. For me, Sexton is fairly far above both overall ATM. Biggar would be my second choice, easily.

 

[msf]

Anyway, looks like Ireland will win another Grand Slam if they beat Wales...there was a article in the rugby paper pointing out that professionalism has been very good to Ireland, and I'm glad it has, it makes the Six Nations and European Cup more interesting.

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Biggar, easily? I doubt Gatland agrees with you.

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Also, Ford has a lot, lot more potential than Biggar, who is basically a kicking 10.

 

[LiRFCMatt]

YOU ARE JOKING, ford was behind a dominant pack against us and looked ok, Biggar still looked good whilst our scrum was ****e

I think your Welsh goggles may be disturbing your vision.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Doesn't change my point in anyway - you don't play a traditional 7, and the reason SOB (and today TOD) is so effective as a 7 is because your front 5 give him a platform to launch off.

Not becaus eIreland play a traditional fetcher as they are alluding to up there ^^^^^

Not really their point, he stated that a specialist 7 can't be replaced by locks, I don't necessarily agree but your point of Ireland not having one isn't really a valid counter considering it has nothing to do with his argument. Today, if Haskell and Vunipola were to work they needed a groundhog, it's very true. England didn't get the front five dominance they had against Wales so their backrow came under the kosh, it was revealed to be an unbalanced penalty machine. If Lawes and Launchbury were there it may have been different but I'd put that down to a dominant front five hiding the flawed backrow.

 

[goodNumber10]

Not really their point, he stated that a specialist 7 can't be replaced by locks, I don't necessarily agree but your point of Ireland not having one isn't really a valid counter considering it has nothing to do with his argument. Today, if Haskell and Vunipola were to work they needed a groundhog, it's very true. England didn't get the front five dominance they had against Wales so their backrow came under the kosh, it was revealed to be an unbalanced penalty machine. If Lawes and Launchbury were there it may have been different but I'd put that down to a dominant front five hiding the flawed backrow.

I must be missing something here mate because Jones boy and Profitus both made a point that Ireland were quicker to the breakdown today and that you can't replace a 7 with locks.

They are clearly alluding to a point that Ireland had a specialist 7 on the field today and that England didn't otherwise what was the releveance of their point?

 

[j'nuh]

Biggar is okay, but seeing as Gatland preferred Farrell to him for the Lions, and Ford has now usurped Farrell, I doubt Biggar will be going on the next Lions tour.

Don't care what Gatland thinks, Biggar deserved to go on that Lions tour ahead of Farrell.

 

[munstermuffin]

Ireland don't play a traditional back row like England attempt to. Robshaw acting as a 7 with Haskell and Vunipola playing as traditional 6 and 8s is a flawed system. Apart from Tommy O'Donnell who hasn't had significant playing time at 8 and Jordi Murphy at 6 Ireland's backrows today have had significant gametime in all the positions of the backrow at high levels of rugby, Schmidt isn't employing a system of having a 6, 7 and 8 but rather 3 auxiliary backrows and he's found a wonderful backrow. I honestly think Jordi fits it better than Heaslip.

This is exactly what I've been trying to tell ye all on here since last year when stuff like "oh POM made less tackle than a regular 6" and "he's no fulfilling his primary role" from last year. Schmidt doesn't do the usual backrow roles. He takes all roles combined and designates accordingly. It usually POM that is over like a 7 making turnovers, today Tommy was like a 6 for large parts and Murphy was more like a 7 than 8 today. Schmidt is smart and nobody has said this but was hiring Easterby a master stroke by him?

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I must be missing something here mate because Jones boy and Profitus both made a point that Ireland were quicker to the breakdown today and that you can't replace a 7 with locks.

They are clearly alluding to a point that Ireland had a specialist 7 on the field today and that England didn't otherwise what was the releveance of their point?

We're interpreting what they said differently, you see it as them comparing the sides, I see it as them taking England in isolation. We'll need clarity from them to continue the argument, if there is one I think we'd probably agree once we know the context.