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[2015 Six Nations] Ireland vs England (Round 3)
- Thread starter iINDOMINUSxx
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I think a few player were really dissapointing today and just didn't front up when it mattered- I'd ring a number of changes for Scotland:
Corbs (if 100% fit)
Youngs
Cole
Kruis?
Lawes
Wood? (through clenched teeth, but need him for lineout- still want Ewers or Kvesic though)
Robshaw
Vunipola
Wigglesworth
Ford
May (just think Nowells lack of pace was exposed when trying to kick chase- overall lack of the 'chase' part today)
36 (Is this the best we've got? tempted to throw Slade in)
Joseph
Watson
Brown (Pennel if not fit)
Bench: Vunpola, Hartley, Brookes, Attwood, Easter, Simpson, Cipriani, Eastmond/Slade
Corbs (if 100% fit)
Youngs
Cole
Kruis?
Lawes
Wood? (through clenched teeth, but need him for lineout- still want Ewers or Kvesic though)
Robshaw
Vunipola
Wigglesworth
Ford
May (just think Nowells lack of pace was exposed when trying to kick chase- overall lack of the 'chase' part today)
36 (Is this the best we've got? tempted to throw Slade in)
Joseph
Watson
Brown (Pennel if not fit)
Bench: Vunpola, Hartley, Brookes, Attwood, Easter, Simpson, Cipriani, Eastmond/Slade
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Our best back line in my opinion is.
9. Care
10. Ford
11. Nowell
12 Tuilagi/Eastmond
13 Joseph
14 Watson
15 Brown
On today's game thought 36 and Burrell were both poor. All the BBc saying about the scrubs England only had one scrum with there put in the whole game also thought Corbs could do a better job than Marler. Neither Hartley or Youngs are great in my opinion. It also shows how big a miss Lawes and Launchbury are because we did not want to compete for the ball at lineout time. I've got Care at 9 because both Youngs and Wiggles take forever to get the ball away so I'd have Simpson or Robson on the bench I know this will never happen. Also think Morgan would have made a big difference in a game like that off the bench. Ah well on wards and upwards.
9. Care
10. Ford
11. Nowell
12 Tuilagi/Eastmond
13 Joseph
14 Watson
15 Brown
On today's game thought 36 and Burrell were both poor. All the BBc saying about the scrubs England only had one scrum with there put in the whole game also thought Corbs could do a better job than Marler. Neither Hartley or Youngs are great in my opinion. It also shows how big a miss Lawes and Launchbury are because we did not want to compete for the ball at lineout time. I've got Care at 9 because both Youngs and Wiggles take forever to get the ball away so I'd have Simpson or Robson on the bench I know this will never happen. Also think Morgan would have made a big difference in a game like that off the bench. Ah well on wards and upwards.
goodNumber10
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And your counting only makes sense if you assume that Barritt (!) and Tuilagi are his settled first-choice combo.
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How about scrum halves? How long did it take him to work out that Care can't box kick?
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How about scrum halves? How long did it take him to work out that Care can't box kick?
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Another funny game from Ireland. Not reaching the heights of Autumn, perhaps they don't have to north of the equator?! Italy vs Ireland was probably there worst performance thus far, same with England and hard to tell with the French with South Africa having their worst game of the EOYT vs Ireland as well. So there is definitely a pattern here, Ireland seem to be sucking the life out of the opposition and doing it exceptionally well.
England struggled with inuries today quite clearly, Lancaster in hindsight, made the wrong calls with Goode and Youngs and England seemed to have no reply to playing without set piece dominance. There's clearly potential there but it feels as if we hear that every few months and it never comes to fruition, to me that points towards the coaching team, who only seem to lack a backs coach and the tactical astuteness needed to get to the next level.
Players who shone for Ireland today: Henshaw - Gainline was never a problem, no glaringly bad missed tackles of those six he missed from memory, the hits he did make had huge impact and that try wasn't bad!
Back Three - Did incredibly well, fielded some relatively poor kicks from our halfbacks as well as being solid under England's ball as well as in defence.
Jordi Murphy - Carried well, rucked well, had at least one turnover, defended well. A very Heaslip like performance, my MOTM!
PO'C - Standard!
Best - The best of a very good lot in the front row, subs included. Rucked and defended well, and the set piece was grand too!
Hard luck England but 5 in a row could never happen! I'm absolutely delighted!!!
England struggled with inuries today quite clearly, Lancaster in hindsight, made the wrong calls with Goode and Youngs and England seemed to have no reply to playing without set piece dominance. There's clearly potential there but it feels as if we hear that every few months and it never comes to fruition, to me that points towards the coaching team, who only seem to lack a backs coach and the tactical astuteness needed to get to the next level.
Players who shone for Ireland today: Henshaw - Gainline was never a problem, no glaringly bad missed tackles of those six he missed from memory, the hits he did make had huge impact and that try wasn't bad!
Back Three - Did incredibly well, fielded some relatively poor kicks from our halfbacks as well as being solid under England's ball as well as in defence.
Jordi Murphy - Carried well, rucked well, had at least one turnover, defended well. A very Heaslip like performance, my MOTM!
PO'C - Standard!
Best - The best of a very good lot in the front row, subs included. Rucked and defended well, and the set piece was grand too!
Hard luck England but 5 in a row could never happen!
I'm absolutely delighted!!!
I don't think that's entirely true. I think there's players that if Lancaster had been loyal to, he'd have kept going back to post-fitness and we'd have built some better consistency. Only Tuilagi has really received that loyalty in the centres. We certainly could have selected our centres from a narrower pool.
But then, I think we'd argued this one out before... and I know people have made the point of form as well. Very difficult to pick out a 12 you'd want to be loyal to out of all that. Which, to me, proves my earlier point, that maybe he's just not working with that great a squad.
goodNumber10
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How so?
It's hard to argue that Care wasn't the best 9 in the 6 nations last season and was there on merit.
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you haven't really made a point other then we've changed a lot of players.
But our Entire squads consistency has been seriously hampered by injuries over the last 3 years... i think we'd have seen a much more settled team if not for injuries and date clashes.
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but that's my point that pool has consistently been drained...
Because you were counting changing back to those two as not dropping the player in the shirt.
Can Care box kick? Is box kicking important in international rugby?
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I've pointed out that at least half of the changes we've made haven't been due to injury.
Can Care box kick? Is box kicking important in international rugby?
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I've pointed out that at least half of the changes we've made haven't been due to injury.
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To be honest i think it's pretty difficult to say that attempting to rely on Care and Youngs is a good idea given how horribly inconsistent they have been throughout their international careers.
They are almost as bad as 36 in that regard.
They are almost as bad as 36 in that regard.
The Jones Boy
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England -
Dan Cole. Played really well and got over the ball a lot. Charging runs, if he's fit he would be the first front rower on my Pommie team sheet. He's a powerhouse and lifted his credit rating today.
Haskell - Had to do too much when he was outnumbered and got caught trying to even up the odds by perhaps not the most legal of means and got penalised for it. A bit more support and he wouldn't have been caught.
Robshaw - Tried manfully just like Haskell but too often isolated and left to do too much on his own. The big issue I have with Robshaw is that he is not a true no.7 as in a sniffer
8.Vunipola He made good meters and was powerful in defence. However, he does not offer an extra body often enough when Robshaw and Haskell really need it. He's a great individual but I'm yet to see him as a key cog in the 'team'. Easter... hmmm... experience, sure, but he looks slow and seems to be a step behind the pace for the most part. Is he passed it at the top level in the pressure cooker of International rugby? Maybe not against Italy but against teams like this rampant Irish side, I'd say yes, he's a bit long in the tooth and a yard too slow. I can't see him pushing Vunipola out of his position for any money.
9.Youngs Show me a half back who can look good when the pack is going backwards and I will look outside for a blue moon. Not his day and not his fault. Wiggles worth tried hard when he came on and he looks a talent for the future.
10.Ford Found out a little bit by a mixture of very experienced opposition and perhaps the pressure of the occasion. He's talented but when you're a bit of a rookie at the top level these games can be a steep learning curve.
11.Nowell This guy is always busy and he is fun to watch. It didn't quite happen for him today but he is another on the learning curve.
12.Burrell - Honestly, this poor lad looks out of his depth at this level. I found myself feeling sorry for him. Twelvetrees came with obvious energy and enthusiasm and he looked like he really wanted to be there, I'd start him ahead of Burrell everyday on current form.
13.Joseph - This young wriggler on the other hand made a fist of pretty much everything he encountered. Yes he got caught in possession a few times and he dropped the ball a couple of times but it went backwards and he recovered and always made sure that when he was scragged by the Irishmen he was laying the right way to keep possession so his pack could recycle and try again. This kid is talented and he looks good value for a starting role week in and week out.
14.Watson - Looking at the good things he did he seems to have a future. Forgive him his errors he's a rookie. He's got gas and a nose for the line.
15.Goode - I was impressed for the most part, big shoes to fill in for the absent Mike Brown. I thought he was good for the money and I'd give him another run.
The England pack did well, it was away from home and Ireland are running hot under Joe Schmidt, the likeable Kiwi coach. I wouldn't worry about the English scrum it looks very strong most of the time.
In fact the ONLY Englishman I have a beef with is Stuart Lancaster. That game was crying out for an injection of the Cipriani variety by the 60 minute mark when England were approaching 'Do or Die time.
Courtenay Lawes and Geoff parking are the stand out Pommie locks for me. If they're not injured I would start them every time.
Mike Brown will add experience.
Increasingly I'm thinking the issue isn't with the players in the white shirts who are trying their guts out, it's with the blokes in the stand making the decisions.
Ireland - They are the goods, gosh they were disciplined and composed today. A real treat to watch the organisation and execution.
Looking at Ireland today reminded me of the All Blacks playing against South Africa in the Republic. We seem smaller and quicker while the Boks are bigger and more robust but generally not as quick or quite as efficient.
Ireland looked smaller and speedier today and their loose forwards kept winning the contact situation, or slowing it down, because they physically quicker and more agile than their lumpy counterparts. Robs haw (not a 7) Haskell and Vunipola are all men mountains but they all lack pace and agility compared the the smaller more modern speedy sniffers and thats why England were found out at the breakdown so often, or had their ball slowed down.
Lancaster and co. look like they are copying the Bok loose forward model where they will happily go without a lightning no.7 with an unhealthy disregard for their well being. In the big contests the more mobile forwards give you a little something extra across the board. So it was for Ireland today. They tackled like demons and they did it in unity. Regularly they caught England out for speed at the breakdown and pressured the possession in a tight professional manner.
God help us when they light up their backline.
Superb team performance by Ireland, a green machine where every cog was running smoothly with discipline.
Impressive.
A good game for the neutral, a good learning curve for England who didn't disgrace themselves at all, their players gave everything and at times were a little unlucky and a little inexperienced, biggest problem they have, is Lancaster, he just hasn't got it right yet, but maybe in time... maybe... they gave Woodward 7 years maybe they should let Lancaster run the show for a similar time frame because the England squad boasts massive talent...
A strength to strength showing from Ireland who have seriously put a whopping great big green marker down in the sand.
Watch them for the next couple of games and then the RWC.
The biggest advantage Ireland have over England is....
Joe Schmidt.
10 wins on the trot do NOT lie.
Dan Cole. Played really well and got over the ball a lot. Charging runs, if he's fit he would be the first front rower on my Pommie team sheet. He's a powerhouse and lifted his credit rating today.
Haskell - Had to do too much when he was outnumbered and got caught trying to even up the odds by perhaps not the most legal of means and got penalised for it. A bit more support and he wouldn't have been caught.
Robshaw - Tried manfully just like Haskell but too often isolated and left to do too much on his own. The big issue I have with Robshaw is that he is not a true no.7 as in a sniffer
8.Vunipola He made good meters and was powerful in defence. However, he does not offer an extra body often enough when Robshaw and Haskell really need it. He's a great individual but I'm yet to see him as a key cog in the 'team'. Easter... hmmm... experience, sure, but he looks slow and seems to be a step behind the pace for the most part. Is he passed it at the top level in the pressure cooker of International rugby? Maybe not against Italy but against teams like this rampant Irish side, I'd say yes, he's a bit long in the tooth and a yard too slow. I can't see him pushing Vunipola out of his position for any money.
9.Youngs Show me a half back who can look good when the pack is going backwards and I will look outside for a blue moon. Not his day and not his fault. Wiggles worth tried hard when he came on and he looks a talent for the future.
10.Ford Found out a little bit by a mixture of very experienced opposition and perhaps the pressure of the occasion. He's talented but when you're a bit of a rookie at the top level these games can be a steep learning curve.
11.Nowell This guy is always busy and he is fun to watch. It didn't quite happen for him today but he is another on the learning curve.
12.Burrell - Honestly, this poor lad looks out of his depth at this level. I found myself feeling sorry for him. Twelvetrees came with obvious energy and enthusiasm and he looked like he really wanted to be there, I'd start him ahead of Burrell everyday on current form.
13.Joseph - This young wriggler on the other hand made a fist of pretty much everything he encountered. Yes he got caught in possession a few times and he dropped the ball a couple of times but it went backwards and he recovered and always made sure that when he was scragged by the Irishmen he was laying the right way to keep possession so his pack could recycle and try again. This kid is talented and he looks good value for a starting role week in and week out.
14.Watson - Looking at the good things he did he seems to have a future. Forgive him his errors he's a rookie. He's got gas and a nose for the line.
15.Goode - I was impressed for the most part, big shoes to fill in for the absent Mike Brown. I thought he was good for the money and I'd give him another run.
The England pack did well, it was away from home and Ireland are running hot under Joe Schmidt, the likeable Kiwi coach. I wouldn't worry about the English scrum it looks very strong most of the time.
In fact the ONLY Englishman I have a beef with is Stuart Lancaster. That game was crying out for an injection of the Cipriani variety by the 60 minute mark when England were approaching 'Do or Die time.
Courtenay Lawes and Geoff parking are the stand out Pommie locks for me. If they're not injured I would start them every time.
Mike Brown will add experience.
Increasingly I'm thinking the issue isn't with the players in the white shirts who are trying their guts out, it's with the blokes in the stand making the decisions.
Ireland - They are the goods, gosh they were disciplined and composed today. A real treat to watch the organisation and execution.
Looking at Ireland today reminded me of the All Blacks playing against South Africa in the Republic. We seem smaller and quicker while the Boks are bigger and more robust but generally not as quick or quite as efficient.
Ireland looked smaller and speedier today and their loose forwards kept winning the contact situation, or slowing it down, because they physically quicker and more agile than their lumpy counterparts. Robs haw (not a 7) Haskell and Vunipola are all men mountains but they all lack pace and agility compared the the smaller more modern speedy sniffers and thats why England were found out at the breakdown so often, or had their ball slowed down.
Lancaster and co. look like they are copying the Bok loose forward model where they will happily go without a lightning no.7 with an unhealthy disregard for their well being. In the big contests the more mobile forwards give you a little something extra across the board. So it was for Ireland today. They tackled like demons and they did it in unity. Regularly they caught England out for speed at the breakdown and pressured the possession in a tight professional manner.
God help us when they light up their backline.
Superb team performance by Ireland, a green machine where every cog was running smoothly with discipline.
Impressive.
A good game for the neutral, a good learning curve for England who didn't disgrace themselves at all, their players gave everything and at times were a little unlucky and a little inexperienced, biggest problem they have, is Lancaster, he just hasn't got it right yet, but maybe in time... maybe... they gave Woodward 7 years maybe they should let Lancaster run the show for a similar time frame because the England squad boasts massive talent...
A strength to strength showing from Ireland who have seriously put a whopping great big green marker down in the sand.
Watch them for the next couple of games and then the RWC.
The biggest advantage Ireland have over England is....
Joe Schmidt.
10 wins on the trot do NOT lie.
Haha, a Kiwi who thinks 12trees is a international-class player, I guess they aren't all Joe Schmidts...
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Well, we've disagreed before good no. 10., and then Will Greenwood made the same point I was making that you disagreed with, so let's just leave it there.
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Well, we've disagreed before good no. 10., and then Will Greenwood made the same point I was making that you disagreed with, so let's just leave it there.
goodNumber10
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goodNumber10
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