[2015 RWC] Warm Up Match: New Zealand vs Australia (15/08/2015)

[goodNumber10]

McCaw, like any good mauling forward, is actually driving inwards and upwards, which he is quite entitled to do. Regardless of whether he has his arm around Palu's thigh, he would still be driving in and up the same way, so its immaterial. If he was not driving and instead only trying to lift Palu's leg, then I would agree with you, but he isn't, so I don't

He clearly has Palu's Leg and lifts it, hence his left leg stays down and his right leg doesn't.

McCaw has Palu below the knee, his leg is bent from being lifted, his lower leg is loose because of that, he gets underneath Palu because he is manipulating his leg, manipulating someones leg in a Maul is illegal and dangerous play iirc.

All we can see is that Read and Skelton are wrestling but its hard to tell if anything else is going on because we never see a close up view from Camera 6 (the sideline steadycam on that side of the field); the only view we get is from Camera 2 (the second elevated platform camera). If you reckon you see this as clear and obvious on TV, from the wrong side and 80 metres away, then you must have Superman vision. This all happens right in front of Wayne Barnes and I am 100% certain that, of all referees, he would call it in if Read even looked like he might have collapsed the maul.

He clearly drops his weight under Skelton's center of gravity, you can see it at the back left he has him around the waist and then drops and pulls - i don't really care if you disagree with me I'm not trying to convince you otherwise, I am just offering an opinion on what i saw, you're the person who went on the attack despite my original post clearly saying there was lots going on in both directions.

Bwwhahaha! I totally doubt that. Someone who is clearly and obviously as anti-New Zealand as you are would have been whining about that from the get-go if you saw it live.

I clearly say that i am going back through the video, i just didn't mention anything until i'd reviewed the video and confirmed my thoughts.

I have to say though that I am not I'm not surprised you see it the way you do. You work for G&GR; a website that publishes match analyses and columns that are more outright, one-eyed pro-Australian biased than any other place on the web, even SMH.

You are seeing things with your G&GR eye-patch.

It's no surprise that an Australian rugby website will be pro Australian, but I'm English, i have no affiliation to Australia or really G&GR. I don' work for them I just contribute the occasional video article analysis articles.

I'm not anti-NZ, you are just horrifically one eyed (hence the rather funny picture) to the point that when ever anyone crticises your boys you go massively out of your way to smear and argue with them - look at the lineout discussion the other week the lengths you went to with Kaplan (ridiculous), and with the scrum discussion in the other thread?

Nothing I've contributed has been anti-NZ, unobjective, nor criticised NZ - so how do you like them apples?

In over a year on this forum i can honestly say you never once said a NZ player is in the wrong, and always find a way to defend them.

You are about as unobjective as they come.

And Lastly on the editing:

Yeah, busted, and dishonest.

Not in the slightest, I have posted my edit history and PM'd Mr Fish about it. It p*sses me off i'm being made out dishonest and a liar when i absolutely did not edit the post in the way you and Heineken claim.

The Text was there, and even if you don't believe that it certainly was there when you replied the second time, you chose not to focus on it and feint being attacked because you are wrong and it works to change the subject.

 

[nickdnz]

he was in a beanie hat with a big WATER vest on, it was disgraceful, $2000 is pretty lenient imho.

How was it 'disgraceful'? - he was separating two players who were about to fight. He didn't hold anyone's jersey or anything, he was pulling Julian Savea off of Quade Cooper.

I'm not a Messam fan - and I agree it was ill disciplined and stupid - but I think his intentions weren't all that "disgraceful". How much should a team be fined for this?

 

[goodNumber10]

How was it 'disgraceful'? - he was separating two players who were about to fight. He didn't hold anyone's jersey or anything, he was pulling Julian Savea off of Quade Cooper.

I'm not a Messam fan - and I agree it was ill disciplined and stupid - but I think his intentions weren't all that "disgraceful". How much should a team be fined for this?

more than $2000.

Steve Walsh was suspended and fined iirc for three days for squirting some water at Dave Reddin.

Surely getting in the middle of a fight on the pitch when you are part of the match day staff is seriously wrong - why was he even on? The game had been in flow until that happened Nonu threw the ball and it went off meaning Meesam ran all the way in and got involved - he didn't just happen to be in the area.

EDIT* @ 15:38 just so there is no doubt.

yeah watching it again just now, he does come in once i's all kicked off and separate the two players you say, maybe i'm being a bit harsh, but i think he has no right being there.

 

[ZeroTwo]

How was it 'disgraceful'? - he was separating two players who were about to fight. He didn't hold anyone's jersey or anything, he was pulling Julian Savea off of Quade Cooper.

I'm not a Messam fan - and I agree it was ill disciplined and stupid - but I think his intentions weren't all that "disgraceful". How much should a team be fined for this?

I think you're right with what you say but it sets a dangerous precedent. If stuff like that is tolerated how long until touchline staff run on and influence the ref etc?

It's just unnecessary. NZ have enough cool heads on that pitch to separate it all up. Fined, he'll be spoken to, hopefully it won't happen again. Sorted!

 

[nickdnz]

more than $2000.

Steve Walsh was suspended and fined iirc for three days for squirting some water at Dave Reddin.

Surely getting in the middle of a fight on the pitch when you are part of the matchday staff is seriously wrong - why was he even on? The game had been in flow until that happened Nonu threw the ball and it went off meaning Meesam ran all the way in and got involved - he didn't just haappen to be in the area.

It will please you to know that's roughly $2,232 (NZD).

I'm not sure why he was on the field, and I think everyone has accepted that it is not acceptable. But I think to say it is disgraceful is a bit much, he acted to prevent a fight. Again, yeah stupid. Probably his last gig as a water boy. But as far as I can tell, no harm done. So $2,000 fine seems about right for an immaterial one-off offense.

I think you're right with what you say but it sets a dangerous precedent. If stuff like that is tolerated how long until touchline staff run on and influence the ref etc?

It's just unnecessary. NZ have enough cool heads on that pitch to separate it all up. Fined, he'll be spoken to, hopefully it won't happen again. Sorted!

Agree with this. Pretty sure everyone who has played rugby has probably at one time or another been either on the sidelines or the bench, and felt compelled to run on the field when it looks like a scrap may happen. First rule is: don't.

So I agree it is stupid, and I think the fine is fair for something that has happened once. But I'm not sure I see it with quite as much venom to say it is disgraceful. If he took a swing at a player that would be another story.

 

[goodNumber10]

It will please you to know that's roughly $2,232 (NZD).

I'm not sure why he was on the field, and I think everyone has accepted that it is not acceptable. But I think to say it is disgraceful is a bit much, he acted to prevent a fight. Again, yeah stupid. Probably his last gig as a water boy. But as far as I can tell, no harm done. So $2,000 fine seems about right for an immaterial one-off offense.



Agree with this. Pretty sure everyone who has played rugby has probably at one time or another been either on the sidelines or the bench, and felt compelled to run on the field when it looks like a scrap may happen. First rule is: don't.

So I agree it is stupid, and I think the fine is fair for something that has happened once. But I'm not sure I see it with quite as much venom to say it is disgraceful. If he took a swing at a player that would be another story.

I just said I was probably being harsh, did you not see my Edit?

 

[nickdnz]

I just said I was probably being harsh, did you not see my Edit?

No sorry, I was lost in a middle of watching a Youtube video before finishing my own edit.

Sorry about that.

 

[goodNumber10]

No sorry, I was lost in a middle of watching a Youtube video before finishing my own edit.

Sorry about that.

no problem, there seems to be an issue with my edits on here at the moment anyway.

 

[TobesHodges]

Steve Walsh was suspended and fined iirc for three days for squirting some water at Dave Reddin.

I miss Steve already :'(

 

[smartcooky]

He clearly has Palu's Leg and lifts it, hence his left leg stays down and his right leg doesn't.

McCaw has Palu below the knee, his leg is bent from being lifted, his lower leg is loose because of that, he gets underneath Palu because he is manipulating his leg, manipulating someones leg in a Maul is illegal and dangerous play iirc.

No. He doesn't! You can see Palu's THIGH bandage BELOW McCaws forearm

That's Referee Owens right there and its happening in front on him. If this is as C&O as you say it is, he would have at least managed it by telling him to stop lifting the leg, He says nothing!

He clearly drops his weight under Skelton's center of gravity*2​, you can see it at the back left he has him around the waist and then drops and pulls*1​

*1 - No. He doesn't. He's pulling Skelton straight back.

*2 - The centre of gravity of a human body is near the hips (approximately anterior to the second sacral vertebra or two vertebrae above your tailbone) The waist is ABOVE the C of G.

That's the legs of AR Barnes right there at the top and its happening in front on him. If this is as C&O as you say it is, he would have at least managed it by telling him to stop what he was doing. He says nothing!

In over a year on this forum i can honestly say you never once said a NZ player is in the wrong, and always find a way to defend them.

Well there's you problem; you're a noob. I've been a member for over eight years so you have probably only ever read a very small proportion of my posts.

I was also a referee for 12 years, an assessor for another 15 years and have been a referee coach and advisor ever since.

 

[The Jones Boy]

I miss Steve already :'(

Bring back Stevo !!

 

[Kiwiwomble]

not going to add to the discussion on foul play etc but i will add i'm not sure what messam did wrong unless i missed something, I dont know how he got there so fast but i only saw him separating people so if he threw a punch or something then please ignore. I just don't know why we would want to limit the number of people STOPPING a fight...he should have let it go for a while longer?...maybe wait for some blood?

 

[smartcooky]

not going to add to the discussion on foul play etc but i will add i'm not sure what messam did wrong unless i missed something, I dont know how he got there so fast but i only saw him separating people so if he threw a punch or something then please ignore. I just don't know why we would want to limit the number of people STOPPING a fight...he should have let it go for a while longer?...maybe wait for some blood?

He was bringing out the kicking tee for Dan.

Remember this all kicked off in centre-field after Gold 3 (Palu) was pinged for tripping Aaron Smith over on the right. Messam was bringing the kicking tee on and his path took him right past what was happening.

 

[ZeroTwo]

not going to add to the discussion on foul play etc but i will add i'm not sure what messam did wrong unless i missed something, I dont know how he got there so fast but i only saw him separating people so if he threw a punch or something then please ignore. I just don't know why we would want to limit the number of people STOPPING a fight...he should have let it go for a while longer?...maybe wait for some blood?

Because it's only a matter of time until we see all the coaching staff, subs bench etc running on at a scuffle. Not only could this aggravate the issue but also give them the chance to influence referees or block their view.

What messam did in itself is not harmful but it's what that could lead to if unpunished. He shouldn't be there for good reason.

 

[goodNumber10]

No. He doesn't! You can see Palu's THIGH bandage BELOW McCaws forearm

You're arguing the minutae, it is clear that he is lifting his leg, and does so on several occasions - you don't agree i get it, but i think it is dangerous play.

That's Referee Owens right there and its happening in front on him. If this is as C&O as you say it is, he would have at least managed it by telling him to stop lifting the leg, He says nothing!

Which is exactly my point, it's a big miss imo

Refrees make mistakes, you say so yourself, convenient that when it suits your argument he is infallible.

Here are some other stills all showing McCaw lifting Palu's leg:

No. He doesn't. He's pulling Skelton straight back.

It's a still from a sequence spanning about 30, it shows exactly what you want it to - frame it on to where he pulls backwards and drops his weight.

Here is the end of the seuqnce right before it drops, read is almost unseeable, and Skelton is still stood up, Read had him by the waist, he has clearly dropped his weight and is pulling him down.

That's the legs of AR Barnes right there at the top and its happening in front on him. If this is as C&O as you say it is, he would have at least managed it by telling him to stop what he was doing. He says nothing!

And again, this is my whole point it's terrible that both Owens and Barnes missed two clear cut pieces of foul play, one of them dangerous imo.

Well there's you problem; you're a noob. I've been a member for over eight years so you have probably only ever read a very small proportion of my posts.

I specified a year, what does how long you've been here got to do with that?

Regardless, I've read enough of your tosh here, and on rugbyrefs, to know you're a sanctimonious bigot with a chip on his shoulder about the British (as has been pinted out to you by many people).

I was also a referee for 12 years, an assessor for another 15 years and have been a referee coach and advisor ever since.

Bully for you, you know the laws of the game. You seem to think that the fact you did some reffing courses and can read your rule book makes you beyond challenge - it doesn't.

 

[smartcooky]

Regardless, I've read enough of your tosh here, and on rugbyrefs, to know you're a sanctimonious bigot with a chip on his shoulder about the British (as has been pinted out to you by many people).

Aha, so you're stalking me now?

And watch who you call a bigot - that is a direct personal attack!

 

[goodNumber10]

Aha, so you're stalking me now?

Lol, you posted links to your "articles" on here.

And watch who you call a bigot - that is direct personal attack!

No it's an observation, unlike the many occasions you called me a C*NT and a few other things.

But cool on changing the focus of the discussion, I guess we'll just call it there then as you clearly have nothing else to add to the subject.

 

[Kiwi_]

Look at Wayne Barnes laughing on the replay as Falou goes into score a try, what's that all about.. It's more clear in a better quality video, I will try upload a better image from my phone when I'm home from MySky. 0.31 is a good capture.

 

[goodNumber10]

Look at Wayne Barnes laughing on the replay as Falou goes into score a try, what's that all about.. It's more clear in a better quality video, I will try upload a better image from my phone when I'm home from MySky. 0.31 is a good capture.

think he is laughing at his attempt to keep up with Folau.

 

[Kiwi_]

Doesn't look like he's putting that much gas into the motor though.