[2015 RWC] Quarter Final 2: New Zealand vs. France (17/10/2015)

[The Jones Boy]

That my pick as well but the media over here are telling us otherwise, hah, good luck to them.

 

[Tarasque]

Is the Haka a huge moral boost for the opposing team? i think so.
Long ago the haka was certainly effective, but today everyone is ready and noone is afected, the opposing team is rather boosted by the challenge.
I would be their coach i would not perform the haka. (kind off, you don't deserve the honor ^^ )

 

[Mcfadden]

now you're tripping.... Issac Ross cost us the trinations in 2009 as much as any single player could cost a team. Compared to Donald who copped public annihilation for a couple of mistakes in a single dead rubber match.

the disproportionate negativity towards Donald is ridiculous and the NZ public need to grow up, you're a perfect example of that.

how about games like vs AUS in Brisbane 08 where Donald played a major hand off the bench in a come from behind victory to help claim both the Beldisloe and tri nations silverware, or vs AUS in Auckland 09? plus others... Donald had a lot more high points than low.

The guy had the role of backing up the best 10 in history during his prime and he did a very good job overall considering a very big part of his role in the ABs squad was to emulate opposition 10s in training... Its as simple as that. NZ public need to grow up, its like they are buthurt it was Donald who basked in WC glory and not one of their favored sons Carter or Cruden.

To be fair to Issac Ross and Stephen Donald, nobody was as bad as Sione Lauaki. I know I'm an armchair critic and I couldn't have done better; but sometimes I wonder! It was the most garbage performance in the black jersey I have ever seen.

Anyway, I think you must have a history with this argument since it's been pointed out. I'm not sure why you're singling Nick out though. You'd be hard pressed to find anyone with half a brain who refuses to acknowledge that prior to the World Cup winning kick, Donald was not an international standard player. At least on attack. He had that thing where he tried to put the foot down and step up the accelerator but it usually didn't work on the big stage. I think you're being overly defensive about it tbh.

I like Carter, but I'm not a gigantic fan beyond reason. I realize he isn't anywhere near what he was in 2006 when I started watching rugby seriously. He does a lot of stuff now which I wish he was simply better at, although some of his inaccuracies are because of injuries. But the idea that the only reason I criticize Donald is because my "favorite son" didn't lift the Cup in 2011 is a joke. You're a smart poster and I always enjoy your analysis after matches. I dunno why you're so petty about this though; if it's simply because he's from your region then that's just sad. You're a better poster than that. Sometimes the NZ public can indeed get carried away, and the Hong Kong loss wasn't JUST Donald's fault. But to ignore the wider issues in his offensive game or the way he played in the ITM Cup vs International arena is the truly "immature" thing.

How the hell this relates to our quarterfinal this weekend I'll never know, but I just thought I'd throw this comment in. Try to put a shield in front of your computer screen before you spit your coffee out in inevitable disgust. Didn't even realize they had computers in the Wikato or did you, Barnaby and Cletus take the pick up truck to Auckland?

 

[Chistera]

What France seems likely to look like on Saturday:
Ben Arous - Guirado - Slimani
Papé - Maestri
Dusautoir (c) - Picamoles - Le Roux
Parra - Michalak
Dumoulin - Fofana
Dulin - Spedding - Nakaitaci

Kockott to also replace Tillous-Borde on the bench, who doesn't make the match sheet.
Nyanga instead of Chouly on the bench maybe, to bring some dynamism to our game if needed.

Unless Papé manages to lure McCaw in sucker punching right in front of Owens, I don't see us challenging New-Zealand in any way...

 

[ABs2011]

Is the Haka a huge moral boost for the opposing team? i think so.
Long ago the haka was certainly effective, but today everyone is ready and noone is afected, the opposing team is rather boosted by the challenge.
I would be their coach i would not perform the haka. (kind off, you don't deserve the honor ^^ )

I dont claim to be an expert on doing haka, but, I think you'll find it is as much about the team performing it, their history, culture, mana etc, perhaps even more than it is about the challenge to the opposition. I would also argue that it is just as "effective" in that sense as it was long ago. The point is though, not to do it because you done want the opposition to recieve the honour would be missing the point with regards to why it is performed.

- - - Updated - - -

now you're tripping.... Issac Ross cost us the trinations in 2009 as much as any single player could cost a team. Compared to Donald who copped public annihilation for a couple of mistakes in a single dead rubber match.

the disproportionate negativity towards Donald is ridiculous and the NZ public need to grow up, you're a perfect example of that.

how about games like vs AUS in Brisbane 08 where Donald played a major hand off the bench in a come from behind victory to help claim both the Beldisloe and tri nations silverware, or vs AUS in Auckland 09? plus others... Donald had a lot more high points than low.

The guy had the role of backing up the best 10 in history during his prime and he did a very good job overall considering a very big part of his role in the ABs squad was to emulate opposition 10s in training... Its as simple as that. NZ public need to grow up, its like they are buthurt it was Donald who basked in WC glory and not one of their favored sons Carter or Cruden.

Larksea,

As someone else suggested, it sounds like you have a lot of history with this Donald debate, I suspect dealing with a lot of exagerated and unfair negatviity towards Donald. That being said, I watched pretty much his whole career. He was an excellent ITM cup (provincial) player, a pretty good Super player as well, but at the international level he largely dissapointed. That is pretty much the crux of it. He is a fantastic guy, and I am so stoked he will now largely be remembered for that kick, but the general consensus that he was not a particulalry good All Black is a fair one.

Anyway, perhaps we can discuss things more directly related to this game.

 

[Every Time Ref]

What France seems likely to look like on Saturday:
Ben Arous - Guirado - Slimani
Papé - Maestri
Dusautoir (c) - Picamoles - Le Roux
Parra - Michalak
Dumoulin - Fofana
Dulin - Spedding - Nakaitaci

Kockott to also replace Tillous-Borde on the bench, who doesn't make the match sheet.
Nyanga instead of Chouly on the bench maybe, to bring some dynamism to our game if needed.

Unless Papé manages to lure McCaw in sucker punching right in front of Owens, I don't see us challenging New-Zealand in any way...

Why is Bastareaud out?

 

[GoTheNaki]

All Blacks by 30.

Nah, it's safe to say that the whole country is going to be curled up in an anxious ball, whilst watching this game. Personally, I don't know. I... If anyone has seen the "revenge" games that we've had against Australia, when we've lost the first game of the Bledisloe Cup, then I think this game, because of 2007, is going to be an even BIGGER thing than those returning "second leg" games. I know it's been 8 years, and we've been put out at this exact same stage, but NZ are still like a wounded beast towards this particular past. I see us getting up, I see this being a semi-final affair like vs Australia in 2011. We might not have enough in the tank after this to win in the semi, if we get there. But there is no doubt that we'll throw the kitchen sink at them.

 

[The Jones Boy]

The French forward pack that took the field was purported to be the largest ever, if thats the case the encounter will be very bruising and the AB's will have to run them around like they do wit the big Bokke forwards.

 

[Mcfadden]

Our northern friends will be more "in the know" than most of us Kiwi posters, and it sounds like France has been poor for awhile. I actually thought they did well defensively last week; they missed a few but they made a boat load of tackles. I made a comment earlier that the "surprise" factor of France should not exactly "surprise" us or catch us off guard any more. We KNOW what these buggers can be like. Hansen, McCaw, Carter, Kevy, Woodcock before he got injured will all have 2007 etched into their memories. As the Maori would say, if we can steer our waka forward, and I'm going by the assumption we can, I'd be more nervous about the semi final tbh. Gonna wait and see on the Springboks. Assuming it's even them. Either their problems are going to linger or they are bouncing back at just the right time. But Wales won't roll over IMO.

 

[Larksea]

thanks for the level headed views on the Donald subject. I know I'm over compensating in retaliation for what is "without a single doubt in my mind" undue negativity towards Donald.

In my opinion the whole story around how Donald has been treated by the public shows the face of the absolute worst part of NZ rugby culture. Treating a guy who gave everything for the All Blacks and accumulated a very respectable test record and played an important role in securing a lot of silverware despite constant public attack, and eventually answered an SOS and helped win us world cup. All this while doing probably hardest job the sport, backing up the best 10 that ever lived...

final point on the subject for me.

All it takes for an opinion to become popular is one person to make it and many to follow blindly.

To have an accurate opinion requires objective analysis in both detail and holistically.

 

[Chistera]

Why is Bastareaud out?

The way he played on Sunday, Henshaw danced aroung him for the first try and he wasn't as effective in the breakdown as hoped. Dumoulin isn't any better though.

 

[ABs2011]

thanks for the level headed views on the Donald subject. I know I'm over compensating in retaliation for what is "without a single doubt in my mind" undue negativity towards Donald.

In my opinion the whole story around how Donald has been treated by the public shows the face of the absolute worst part of NZ rugby culture. Treating a guy who gave everything for the All Blacks and accumulated a very respectable test record and played an important role in securing a lot of silverware despite constant public attack, and eventually answered an SOS and helped win us world cup. All this while doing probably hardest job the sport, backing up the best 10 that ever lived...

final point on the subject for me.

All it takes for an opinion to become popular is one person to make it and many to follow blindly.

To have an accurate opinion requires objective analysis in both detail and holistically.

I'll absolutely give you that one mate. By in large he was extremely poorly treated by many. That being said I think it is important to remember that half of the so called "NZ rugby public" and for that matter half the media that think they are qualified to talk on rugby actually know bugger all! Fighting a battle against those muppets is a waste of time I reckon. Donald was a fine player and those with half a brain will recognise that!

 

[Larksea]

The French forward pack that took the field was purported to be the largest ever, if thats the case the encounter will be very bruising and the AB's will have to run them around like they do wit the big Bokke forwards.

much of that "largest ever" may have a lot to do with that one kiwi prop they have who is like ~140-150kg?

dammit when is the team announced.....

i cant believe we have a rematch of 07 on the same fricken ground. the guys who do the draw and organize the matches must be patting themselves on the back, giggling and exchanging winks. talk about drama...

I just glad the guys who appoint the referees didn't decide to take the joke one step further and give the game to Wayne Barnes.

 

[InsaneAsylum]

I'll absolutely give you that one mate. By in large he was extremely poorly treated by many. That being said I think it is important to remember that half of the so called "NZ rugby public" and for that matter half the media that think they are qualified to talk on rugby actually know bugger all! Fighting a battle against those muppets is a waste of time I reckon. Donald was a fine player and those with half a brain will recognise that!

That's accurate. Donald was a fine player. He was a no-frills player who got the job done and I think that's where he comes into criticism from the muppets because the muppets want to see SBW, McCaw, Read, Nonu, Carter, NMS etc.

 

[ABs2011]

much of that "largest ever" may have a lot to do with that one kiwi prop they have who is like ~140-150kg?

dammit when is the team announced.....

i cant believe we have a rematch of 07 on the same fricken ground. the guys who do the draw and organize the matches must be patting themselves on the back, giggling and exchanging winks. talk about drama...

I just glad the guys who appoint the referees didn't decide to take the joke one step further and give the game to Wayne Barnes.

Team is announced at midnight tonight our time.

I hear the wings will be Savea and NMS.

Also heard rumours Moody might be named.

 

[austingtir]

Why is Bastareaud out?

Maybe they've finally realised he should be at prop instead of center?

 

[RoosTah]

Is the Haka a huge moral boost for the opposing team? i think so.
Long ago the haka was certainly effective, but today everyone is ready and noone is afected, the opposing team is rather boosted by the challenge.
I would be their coach i would not perform the haka. (kind off, you don't deserve the honor ^^ )

sh*t, could somebody please tell the rest of the rugby world that? Because last time I checked the Kiwis have won an literally over 90% of their games since the last World Cup... if the Haka is "boosting" other sides, then all I can say is I'd hate to see how strong NZ would be without it.

 

[Alex Anghel]

Team named:
Smith, Savea, Skkuder, Smith, Nonu, Carter, Smith, Read, McCaw, Kaino, Whitelock, Rettalick, O. Franks, Coles. Crockett. On the bench we have Mealamu, Moody, Faumuina. Vito. Cane, Kerr Barlow, Barett and SBW.

I would have taken Slade in too, just in cause Carter gets injured. He could have covered wing and scrum half.

Come on you mighty ALL BLACKS!

 

[nickdnz]

Team named:
Smith, Savea, Skkuder, Smith, Nonu, Carter, Smith, Read, McCaw, Kaino, Whitelock, Rettalick, O. Franks, Coles. Crockett. On the bench we have Mealamu, Moody, Faumuina. Vito. Cane, Kerr Barlow, Barett and SBW.

I would have taken Slade in too, just in cause Carter gets injured. He could have covered wing and scrum half.

Come on you mighty ALL BLACKS!

Like hell he could. He is slower than Barrett on the wing - and we'd really be in trouble if we were relying on his 20 minutes at scrumhalf. Add to that he isn't as good fullback or fly half as Barrett.

Pretty much exactly the team I would expect.

 

[Alex Anghel]

My idea was that he is a more reliable goal kicker that Barrett. But let's hope it won't come to that in the end.