[2015 RWC] Pool C: New Zealand vs. Namibia (24/09/2015)

[Peat]

One positive - I was impressed with the crowd. Definitely were rooting for the underdog which is to be expected - but were respectful and classy.

Did the guys trying to start a Mexican wave by stripping make it onto the broadcast?

 

[nickdnz]

Now I've had some time to cool down here are my thoughts.

First of all, yes I know every single thread has a go at the referee. But he destroyed it for me. It's not so much that he favoured any one team - overall he was reasonably consistent - it's that his officiating was incompetent, laboured and without initiative. The amount of time killed during the 10 minute of the yellow card was around 7 minutes. Yes some handling errors caused plenty of scrums, but the fact that they had not only to be constantly reset, but the amount of time wasted - standing there doing nothing before the next scrum was just absurd. Took any pace out of the game. Now that I have gotten other over with.

The front row actually performed pretty well. Codie Taylor certainly has plenty of ball skills (which I don't think was ever in doubt) - but the scrum did well, albeit against average opposition - and his lineout throwing was spot on. Franks I felt got in front of the ball carrier a few too many times, but wasn't bad by any means. Faumuina had another solid game.

The second rows also did pretty well. Whitelock looked like he used a bit too much, as he doesn't quite have the same ball handling as Retallick so was put under a fair bit of pressure. Romano I actually thought was very solid - still runs far too upright but it seemed not to hurt him this game (as we saw with his bump on Burger). Kieran Read did okay as a lock, didn't make much of a different as it was all scrimmaging while he was on..

Vito was the standout in the loose forwards - did everything with great speed and energy. No one else really stood out to me. I'm not down on Cane's leadership, not really his fault this game moved as it did, just didn't have much opportunity to be a standout with so little Namibian ball.

TJ Peranara frustrated me. Just too many knock ons, which is strange as he went through a period in 2012 of having hands like glue. What he actually did well, worked well. His ball delivery was fine and he was pretty quick to the breakdown. Just a few too many errors. Tawera Kerr-Barlow didn't look much more dynamic when he came on either.

Barrett had an average game from tee - but otherwise had an okay game...he looked dangerous when taking on the line but I feel he spent a bit too much time simply distributing.

SBW was good again. No complaints.

Fekitoa demonstrated why I have concerns about him. Despite me stating his defence wasn't great during Super Rugby (to which everyone seemed to think he was just amazing at spot tackles). Well he is credited with 0 tackles all game - and 1 missed which resulted in a try...from being bumped by a basically stationary player with two people holding him). His decision making is also frustrating. He does this thing where he runs to the outside and throws a blind pass infield while he is being tackled. Or he doesn't draw in the defender, tries to sidestep and then passes. It just is poor decision making. I like him as he is a great talent, but has a lot of work o's before I want him starting big matches.

Outside backs all weren't bad. I can forgive Savea for not cutting on this inside - it may be ambitious, but I'd rather see a Savea who backs himself than one who looks for other options (even if it resulted in a lineout). He looked well covered but it's still an improvement in his mentality for my mind.

Did the guys trying to start a Mexican wave by stripping make it onto the broadcast?

Not that I saw - but I figured there had to be some way to entertain the crowd during the 15 minute scrum resets..

 

[Peat]

I'd have a little sympathy for Barrett's goalkicking. Most of his misses were from the touch line from the wrong side for a right footer. He should do better with them, but a lot of kickers miss those.

Don't think Whitelock had a great game as a lineout caller.

 

[nickdnz]

I'd have a little sympathy for Barrett's goalkicking. Most of his misses were from the touch line from the wrong side for a right footer. He should do better with them, but a lot of kickers miss those.

Don't think Whitelock had a great game as a lineout caller.

Yeah, I had to feel for him a bit, there were a few tries where I felt players could have tried to run it in a bit more.

 

[Kiwi_]

I'd have a little sympathy for Barrett's goalkicking. Most of his misses were from the touch line from the wrong side for a right footer. He should do better with them, but a lot of kickers miss those.

Don't think Whitelock had a great game as a lineout caller.

It's not that, he's just not striking the ball nicely. His running games great though.

I'm starting to wish Sopoaga was picked. I would have liked to have seen Slade kicking to feel a little at ease, maybe next game.

It's hard to get a good gauge on this game, because I don't know the extent of Namibias quality, maybe their next few games will give us a good idea, sounds like they had a few professionals in the side though, with that Saracens guy Burger. I was disappointed the one time we were asked to defend.. we didn't and our line out was very scrappy, I'm going to point to the lack of game time Taylor and the caller Whitelock have had to form a combination there, also Romano isn't exactly Retallick, so no big concern there.

SBW had another good game, him and Fekitoa are an exciting combination. The commentators sounded like they would be expecting to see it next year but isn't SBW off to the sevens?

Skudder looked really class, he's got the midas touch and incredible step, good to see him build some confidence after the Argentinian game

Savea looked like he was really playing for his position, he definitely was better, but he's not the force on the outside he was last year and that's evident. At least he's finally developed more to his game so he can be effective, he came off the ruck nicely, just needs to read the game better and know when to cut in and when to go for the line, in the past he's just relied on his brute strength to do this rather than his vision.

Vito again impressed me, he's such a good ball carrier, huge fan and we're really fortunate to have him in the squad as a utility forward, he's absolutely critical for us.

Our scrum was better with Charlie, I know it's Namibia, but they're still a heavy pack.

Credit where credit is due, I thought Namibia tackled well and asked some questions of us, there's no doubt about it, but the quality of the minnows has vastly improved and they all now have a smattering of professionals in their ranks, which should increase in even more time, the gap is closing in quality, there's no longer a massive gulf so these games are serving as more than just a routine hit out for the bigger teams.

 

[ABs2011]

I would have liked to have seen Slade kicking to feel a little at ease, maybe next game.

I think the point is that Barrett will be the guy coming off the bench in the big games (barring injury of course), therefore he will get the in-game kicking duties when he is on the pitch, not Slade. I agree with an earlier poster as well. Sade can do the job at 15, but he is not a natural full-back. Barrett is much more adept at playing that position, not to mention he is a much more likely to break a game. His pace is sublime.

Could be wrong but I think its a lock to say that the ABs bench will be made up of TKB/TJP, SBW, & Barrett.

 

[Kiwi_]

I think the point is that Barrett will be the guy coming off the bench in the big games (barring injury of course), therefore he will get the in-game kicking duties when he is on the pitch, not Slade. I agree with an earlier poster as well. Sade can do the job at 15, but he is not a natural full-back. Barrett is much more adept at playing that position, not to mention he is a much more likely to break a game. His pace is sublime.

Could be wrong but I think its a lock to say that the ABs bench will be made up of TKB/TJP, SBW, & Barrett.

And this is where I'm starting to feel we could have taken Barrett at FB cover and Sopoaga as first 5 cover. Time will tell I guess. I just don't want to see us in a semi-final/QF missing crucial kicks we know Sopoaga would nail. Really hope Dan can stay fit, but his running game isn't very strong anymore. I don't know, it's really hard to call and a tough decisions in there.

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By the way, thank god I had this recorded on MySky, the bloody stoppages were terrible, found myself fast forwarding through so many penalties and scrum resets and checking tries that were obvious tries.

 

[ABs2011]

The other thing that I think is really important is that while I agree, the officiating was poor, and the game was extremely stop start with way to many delays, the real point is, the ABs have to find ways to deal with that, and anything else that comes there way better. They looked frustrated and it showed in their game. Instead they need to find answers in game. Perhaps a few more tap and goes to speed things up, some line-outs taken at pace. Something to change things up a bit. They were a little too predictable, structured maybe, and Namibia to their credit pushed the boundaries and for the large part got away with it.

Anyway, hopefully the officiating isn't a distraction from the issues that the ABs can actually focus on and improve on.

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And this is where I'm starting to feel we could have taken Barrett at FB cover and Sopoaga as first 5 cover. Time will tell I guess. I just don't want to see us in a semi-final missing crucial kicks we know Sopoaga would nail. Really hope Dan can stay fit, but his running game isn't very strong anymore. I don't know, it's really hard to call and a tough decisions in there.

And leave Slade at home? Maybe, but I'm not sure that would have left enough cover to the outsides (I think that was the mindset of the selectors anyway). Remember they only had three specialist outsides in the squad, one of whom was broken before we left. For that reason alone I think they needed to either take an extra outside back (Piutau/Jane/Dagg) or take Barrett & Slade. Either way I can't see how they were ever going to be able to fit Sopoaga in...

 

[Kiwi_]

Yeah, I think after the Argentinian game we wanted to be 'structured'. You can expect more tap and goes from Aaron Smith. We just need to be ourselves and play, instead of getting sucked into tournament Rugby. 2 more games to go, I really expect a vast improvement, the whole "rusty" excuse is now exhausted, so I expect better from here on in.

 

[ABs2011]

I think DCs running game is still in tact. My sense is he has largely been wrapped in cotton wool at the expense of said running game. He hit the line well against OZ at Eden park, 3, 4 times maybe? I think we will see the return of that game in the knockouts when it matters.

 

[Kiwi_]

The other thing that I think is really important is that while I agree, the officiating was poor, and the game was extremely stop start with way to many delays, the real point is, the ABs have to find ways to deal with that, and anything else that comes there way better. They looked frustrated and it showed in their game. Instead they need to find answers in game. Perhaps a few more tap and goes to speed things up, some line-outs taken at pace. Something to change things up a bit. They were a little too predictable, structured maybe, and Namibia to their credit pushed the boundaries and for the large part got away with it.

Anyway, hopefully the officiating isn't a distraction from the issues that the ABs can actually focus on and improve on.

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And leave Slade at home? Maybe, but I'm not sure that would have left enough cover to the outsides (I think that was the mindset of the selectors anyway). Remember they only had three specialist outsides in the squad, one of whom was broken before we left. For that reason alone I think they needed to either take an extra outside back (Piutau/Jane/Dagg) or take Barrett & Slade. Either way I can't see how they were ever going to be able to fit Sopoaga in...

Hmm, that's what I mean tough decision. I originally said Slade should go, but the more I look at it, the more I see the need for Sopoaga, his whole game style and kicking. We will see though. Perhaps not taking TKB could have been an option, but too risky.. Don't know. As I said, time will tell.

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I think DCs running game is still in tact. My sense is he has largely been wrapped in cotton wool at the expense of said running game. He hit the line well against OZ at Eden park, 3, 4 times maybe? I think we will see the return of that game in the knockouts when it matters.

Yes I think it's all very calculated.

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You could see the quality Ben brought to the game when he came on as well. His decision making is unrivalled and his elusive running game.

 

[ABs2011]

Hmm, that's what I mean tough decision. I originally said Slade should go, but the more I look at it, the more I see the need for Sopoaga, his whole game style and kicking. We will see though. Perhaps not taking TKB could have been an option, but too risky.. Don't know. As I said, time will tell.

Yeah, pretty much every team had to sacrifice a player or two in one or more of the positions groups. OZ have only taken 2 hookers and 2 HBs for example. We sacrificed a lock and a specialist 10. Like you say, selection choice is a tough one. I think they did the right thing. I Don't like the idea of 2 halfbacks cause then we would be seeing A Smith expose to injury every game. Having three allowed us to completely rest him for at least that game, perhaps more if they chose to. Anyway, it is what it is. Barrett is looking better and better I think and I am more and more confident about our bench now, with SBW and Barrett coming good at the right time. TKB/TJP is the next thing we need to get sorted!

 

[Kiwi_]

Fekitoa demonstrated why I have concerns about him. Despite me stating his defence wasn't great during Super Rugby (to which everyone seemed to think he was just amazing at spot tackles). Well he is credited with 0 tackles all game - and 1 missed which resulted in a try...from being bumped by a basically stationary player with two people holding him). His decision making is also frustrating. He does this thing where he runs to the outside and throws a blind pass infield while he is being tackled. Or he doesn't draw in the defender, tries to sidestep and then passes. It just is poor decision making. I like him as he is a great talent, but has a lot of work o's before I want him starting big matches.

Outside backs all weren't bad. I can forgive Savea for not cutting on this inside - it may be ambitious, but I'd rather see a Savea who backs himself than one who looks for other options (even if it resulted in a lineout). He looked well covered but it's still an improvement in his mentality for my mind.

This is actually an unfair analysis of Fekitoas game. His support play was brilliant and vision. On the try, he actually read the game and attack and sprinted from one side of the park to the other to cover Franks and Whitelocks poor tackle, I agree he could have done better in the tackle, but couldn't go low and driving, due to Franks and Whitelock being in the way and the 0 tackle stat was due to them having little of the ball or attacking the midfield at all. On your other point, you go on forgive Savea a paragraph later for virtually the same thing, that pretty much sums it up for me.

 

[ABs2011]

This is actually an unfair analysis of Fekitoas game. His support play was brilliant and vision. On the try, he actually read the game and attack and sprinted from one side of the park to the other to cover Franks and Whitelocks poor tackle, I agree he could have done better in the tackle, but couldn't go low and driving, due to Franks and Whitelock being in the way and the 0 tackle stat was due to them having little of the ball or attacking the midfield at all. On your other point, you go on forgive Savea a paragraph later for virtually the same thing, that pretty much sums it up for me.

I have to say, in general I agree with this and in particular the bolded part. I noticed him spriinting over to cover on the try replay. The people to blame are really Whitlock and Franks for that one, certainly not Fekitoa. I haven't seen the tackle stats but as you say zero tackles on means anything in relation to tackles missed. Was that his only indiscretion on D? if so, its a pretty irrelevant stat.

The other point though that Nick makes is a better one IMO. It's different when you have a winger trying to take a player on the outside compared to a centre. When a centre does it he is potentially squeezing his winger of room and/or taking him out of play altogether, while when a winger does it there is generally no-one on his outside and it is often the only option available. Savea doing it in the second half off that wide ball was case and point. If you watch the defenders coming across, it really was his only option to at least try and beat that first man on the outside. Unfortunately his pace just doesn't quite seem to be there yet. When Fekitoa does it, it is simply the wrong decision sometimes.

Anyway, I've been a little underwhelmed by Fekitoa of late. I think his lack of experience has showed through a little lately.

 

[Kiwi_]

Not quite true, when a centre does it it draws his defenders to the outside, opening up room on the inside - for the offload, which didn't work out and you can see Savea is being instructed to come inside a lot more. This was actually a common Highlanders attack, Fekitoa would run the side line with Naholo coming in on the inside, it would open up defences.

Savea could have come inside, or he could have kicked it, instead he did neither and conceded field position. That's lack of vision for me. I can see him trying though and as I said he did better this game, but needs to be better, he's our only specialized 11. I'd give Naholo a hit out at 11 though, see how he goes.

 

[nickdnz]

This is actually an unfair analysis of Fekitoas game. His support play was brilliant and vision. On the try, he actually read the game and attack and sprinted from one side of the park to the other to cover Franks and Whitelocks poor tackle, I agree he could have done better in the tackle, but couldn't go low and driving, due to Franks and Whitelock being in the way and the 0 tackle stat was due to them having little of the ball or attacking the midfield at all. On your other point, you go on forgive Savea a paragraph later for virtually the same thing, that pretty much sums it up for me.

Savea wasn't 0/1 and didn't leak a try. His missed tackle was just a terrible effort against a stationary tackler...

I can be more forgiving of average defense on the wings (in which NMS os no Brian Lima) but not in midfield. I forgive my outside backs to back themselves on the outside because that's there job. Its a centres job to draw in defenders to create space, and distribute. Fekitoa did not do this. I would have no problem with him making some of these decisions if he was on the wing.

Running to the sideline and throwing a blind pass is hardly Savea's fault (although I'm not surprised you looked for him to blame). He ran laterally and had a Namibian player to the right. The offload wasnt on so Savea had to act as support play. Throwing it blindly to a Namibian player, it doesn't really matter where Savea is..

I didn't mention his support play from that 1 offload, because that was one of the few time he didn't make the wrong decision. Painting any criticism of Fekitoa as bias - but defending him on the basis of one nice support like pretty much sums it up for me too. I don't seem to be alone in my criticism of Fekitoa, so maybe it's not just me who thinks he was poor.

 

[Kiwi_]

I agreed he could have done better in the tackle, but the fact he was THERE to attempt to tackle has to be acknowledge as well, that's good vision, whether you agree or not it was good covering defence. Whitelock could have done better in the tackle so Fekitoa wasn't required to go in high? All the variables huh. There were a lot more factors to that try than Fekitoa, and you're trying to paint him as the sole villain, yet being very apologetic for Savea's lately weak games. What ever man.

 

[ABs2011]

Not quite true, when a centre does it it draws his defenders to the outside, opening up room on the inside - for the offload, which didn't work out and you can see Savea is being instructed to come inside a lot more. This was actually a common Highlanders attack, Fekitoa would run the side line with Naholo coming in on the inside, it would open up defences.

Savea could have come inside, or he could have kicked it, instead he did neither and conceded field position. That's lack of vision for me. I can see him trying though and as I said he did better this game, but needs to be better, he's our only specialized 11. I'd give Naholo a hit out at 11 though, see how he goes.

Of course. I thought however we were talking about players trying to take their man on the outside and failing. What I am saying is wingers are generally given free reign to do that, if it doesn't come off, then so be it. When centres do it and fail, it is generally considered a mistake. Hence (one of the reasons) why decision making at centre is a significantly more important skill than on the wing and you tend to have very smart guys playing that position. i.e. Conrad Smith who very rarely runs his outside backs out of room or passes to a guy in a worse position than himself..

No, Savea couldn't/shouldnt have come inside in that particular instance. Look at the replay, he had one guy right on him, and 2 more in cover. His best shot was to beat the first guy THEN perhaps come inside. As it turns out he couldn't beat the first man but that is not a mistake IMO. Also, in that position you don't give it to Savea to kick. If you wanted someone to kick then you should be blaming the insides who passed it.

 

[nickdnz]

I agreed he could have done better in the tackle, but the fact he was THERE to attempt to tackle has to be acknowledge as well, that's good vision, whether you agree or not it was good covering defence. Whitelock could have done better in the tackle so Fekitoa wasn't required to go in high? All the variables huh. There were a lot more factors to that try than Fekitoa, and you're trying to paint him as the sole villain, yet being very apologetic for Savea's lately weak games. What ever man.

Whitelock was holding him up stationary. It just needed Fekitoa to stop him falling forward...

What ever you say about Savea, I have happily said he is not in the form he was last year. I am just not as hyperbolic as some posters calling for him to be dropped on quiet (rather than awful) games. I would say my biggest frustration with Savea lately is his ineffectivness on the kick and chase, where I think he is becoming a liability under the high ball. What I think Savea would do well with is more space - which our midfield and forwards aren't providing.

This doesn't effect my criticism of Fekitoa, who for all his talent is taking the wrong decisions - and had a poor match.

 

[ABs2011]

Savea wasn't 0/1 and didn't leak a try. His missed tackle was just a terrible effort against a stationary tackler...

I can be more forgiving of average defense on the wings (in which NMS os no Brian Lima) but not in midfield. I forgive my outside backs to back themselves on the outside because that's there job. Its a centres job to draw in defenders to create space, and distribute. Fekitoa did not do this. I would have no problem with him making some of these decisions if he was on the wing.

Running to the sideline and throwing a blind pass is hardly Savea's fault (although I'm not surprised you looked for him to blame). He ran laterally and had a Namibian player to the right. The offload wasnt on so Savea had to act as support play. Throwing it blindly to a Namibian player, it doesn't really matter where Savea is..

I didn't mention his support play from that 1 offload, because that was one of the few time he didn't make the wrong decision. Painting any criticism of Fekitoa as bias - but defending him on the basis of one nice support like pretty much sums it up for me too. I don't seem to be alone in my criticism of Fekitoa, so maybe it's not just me who thinks he was poor.

You are not alone mate. The key point though for this RWC is that SBW in a few games has clearly shown himself to be the better option. Not to be too critical of Fekitoa cause its not like he is playing badly or anything, but there are surely a lot of people like myself who favoured him over SBW at the beginning of the Cup that are now having to admit that SBW is the man right now for the back up centre spot on the bench.

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Whitelock was holding him up stationary. It just needed Fekitoa to stop him falling forward...

What ever you say about Savea, I have happily said he is not in the form he was last year. I am just not as hyperbolic as some posters calling for him to be dropped on quiet (rather than awful) games. I would say my biggest frustration with Savea lately is his ineffectivness on the kick and chase, where I think he is becoming a liability under the high ball.

This doesn't effect my criticism of Fekitoa, who for all his talent is taking the wrong decisions - and had a poor match.

That is a real concern moving forward as anybody that matters would have pickup up on those 2 badly judged up and enders where he fumbled. If he stays as the starting centre he will get peppered for the rest of the Cup.