[2015 RWC] Pool C: New Zealand vs. Argentina (20/09/2015)

[Shaggy]

Shaggy.


Tried to reply to your last PM but...

"Shaggy has exceeded their stored private messages quota and cannot accept further messages until they clear some space."

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Shot down before getting airborne!!

It's conspiracy! and people are trying to keep me silent ... only 20 stored messages in the inbox! ... and 60 in the sent items ... which makes ... ummn ... okay, fair enough

Just did a mass deletion (thanks for alerting me Cooky), so should be good to pass and receive now.

If Argentina beats the All Blacks ...?! you were saying ???

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All Blacks weren't expecting passes ????
They missed 10 quick passes !!!

Not sure who this one's directed at, but I did say IF Argentina beats the ABs earlier in the thread (so I'll take it)

I still thought the ABs would win, but it wasn't beyond the realms of possibility, was it? ... just pointing out what could happen in the other pools, and that some teams don't always try as hard as they could in the pool stages of the RWC

 

[Cookies]

Really good game by the ABs. Exactly as I'd expect them to have won. A few nerves, a slow start and a perfect second half. Nothing unusual.

 

[ABs2011]

If it's what I'm thinking of it would be ridiculous. When Argentina scored their try, Daniel Carter was running and by bad luck caught the try scorers head. But there is no way it was intentional or premeditates - I think if he expected him to go for the try he would have been doing more to go for the ball.

Anyway, look at Argentina's try and you will see what I suspect to be the incident.

Yup, I noticed that as it happened. Given how involved the TMO has been I wondered at the time whether they may look at it. My thoughts were at the time that it was clumsy at best, but looking at it again there is absolutely nothing in it.

 

[smartcooky]

Yup, I noticed that as it happened. Given how involved the TMO has been I wondered at the time whether they may look at it. My thoughts were that it was clumsy at best, but he did make contact with the head so anyones guess what might happen. Would be overkill if he got suspended I would have thought.

Remember how Carter was cited for this head high tackle v Wales at Millennium Stadium a few years ago....

...because of a British Media campaign and outcry, yet in the same match, Andy Powell committed this piece of thuggery...

which went completely unpunished; no penalty or yellow card, no citing. It happened right under the nose of Referee Blind Freddy (a.k.a Alan Lewis, the most useless referee to ever to come out of Ireland)

THAT is the sort double standards you can expect when you are a New Zealand rugby team playing in the British Isles.

 

[Kiwi_]

Fair enough about the comments of playing Julian into form, but don't let these easier pool matches fool you into thinking he has regained it either. I'm probably being harsh on the guy and can't hide my disappointment about his lack of preparation and neglect to his condition before the RWC, I guess I just expected better from one of our 'star' players. I am encouraged he's working hard to play himself back into form, but you have to admit he's a complete shadow of the player he was last year.

 

[Shaggy]

Fair enough about the comments of playing Julian into form, but don't let these easier pool matches fool you into thinking he has regained it either. I'm probably being harsh on the guy and can't hide my disappointment about his lack of preparation and neglect to his condition before the RWC, I guess I just expected better from one of our 'star' players. I am encouraged he's working hard to play himself back into form, but you have to admit he's a complete shadow of the player he was last year.

Early days, my friend, early days ... I'm sure he'll improve (as will the rest); I think we have to give credit to the Pumas defense too, Nonu seems to have been breaking tackles at will, all year, but he probably had as must trouble breaking the game line as Savea did

 

[RJAH777]

New Zealand looked vulnerable and a bit rattled for much of the game. Very average scrum. Their superior fitness broke pumas in the end. I'm sure they will get better as it was their first game for a long time. Great to see argentina on the up. Great chance to make the semis. Very poor from mcaw. Very fortunate it wasn't red

 

[Kiwi_]

Early days, my friend, early days ... I'm sure he'll improve (as will the rest); I think we have to give credit to the Pumas defense too, Nonu seems to have been breaking tackles at will, all year, but he probably had as must trouble breaking the game line as Savea did

Nonu traveled a day later than the rest of the team because of illness, he might still be feeling a little under 100%, I thought he played alright lastnight apart from the attempted chip through which seemed to prompt his removal. He certainly helped break down the Argentinians defense and cause fatigue, they made a heap of tackles on him.



Yeah, our scrum was poor. I can remember Woodcock buckling and rising on a number of times, that is the best scrum we are going to face in the RWC though, I hope Shag finally decides to start Crockett, all the evidence and proof is there over the past months and blatantly obvious lastnight that this will vastly improve us, he also is a better ball carrier. Franks also missed tackles and conceded a penalty.

 

[ABs2011]

New Zealand looked vulnerable and a bit rattled for much of the game. Very average scrum. Their superior fitness broke pumas in the end. I'm sure they will get better as it was their first game for a long time. Great to see argentina on the up. Great chance to make the semis. Very poor from mcaw. Very fortunate it wasn't red

I'd argue that the AB scrum is pretty good, it's just that the Pumas scrum is absolute class.

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Remember how Carter was cited for this head high tackle v Wales at Millennium Stadium a few years ago....
.

Yeah mate, I remember that. This time round though surely nothing will come of it. It's pretty clear cut, but time will tell I guess.

 

[RJAH777]

Yep fair call. Pumas made them look average. Very smart for Cheika to recruit Mario ledesma

 

[Tony Manx]

Carter cited?

Rubbish......there is no way was that a foul and this from one who is totally against the digs try scorers often get as they score from defenders landing on them with their knees or elbows unnecessarily!!

If he gets cited then this game of ours is not the game I know anymore!

 

[InsaneAsylum]

If it's what I'm thinking of it would be ridiculous. When Argentina scored their try, Daniel Carter was running and by bad luck caught the try scorers head. But there is no way it was intentional or premeditates - I think if he expected him to go for the try he would have been doing more to go for the ball.

Anyway, look at Argentina's try and you will see what I suspect to be the incident.

strange, I just checked the highlights and saw it. there's absolutely nothing in that, surprised it was even mentioned

 

[ajwffc]

World rugby have put up official highlights up on YouTube try is scored about 1min in

 

[austingtir]

Finally, I've no problem with either of the yellow cards, but if Wayne Barnes is the best referee England has to offer then that doesn't say much about the rest. He misses an awful lot of offsides and allows a lot of "not releasing" by tackle assists and consistently allowed jacklers to put their hands on the ground past the ball before grabbing the ball. Not good enough at this level.

These are my main concerns with Barnes aswell and this match just highlighted them again. IF we play a team with good opensides that are intent on stealing ball like Australia again we will be in big trouble if Barnes is in charge. His control of the breakdown is beyond retarded.

As far as im concerned Argentina got away with murder at the tackle they were flopping all over our ball.... they are very adept at hiding it though usually there are bodies on the ground and their knees are nearly always on those players and they are reaching over and slowing ball down hard out.

I honestly think we will be like a different side from here out. Barnes stiffles our play an enormous amount.

I really really pity any side that has to play Australia if Barnes is reffing the match Id be willing to put money on it being a certain win to Australia.

 

[RJAH777]

This worked both ways. I saw n.z get away with murder too.

 

[austingtir]

His only other big appointment in pool stage is SA vs Samoa. So that could be an interesting watch aswell.

 

[Shaggy]

Interesting article here on Richie's recent discipline: http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/...e-mccaw-is-illdisciplined--the-stats-prove-it

... it doesn't really compare like for like offences, so we don't know if he commits more lesser type (less serious) offences, or not

 

[Tony Manx]

This worked both ways. I saw n.z get away with murder too.

Never let facts get in the way of a big whinge!!

 

[optimuswolf]

So we've got 'Barnes is overly officious' and Barnes lets (the other) team get away with murder at the breakdown'.

Which one is it lads?

I personally thought he was consistent for both sides, apart from maybe one more yellow for the argies. He probably lets defending teams get away with a bit more than some refs. One turnover to NZ late in the game saw two players competing for the ball in a position they couldn't possibly be supporting their weight.

Both of these teams push the boundaries in defence and Barnes treated them equally 99% of the time.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

Remember how Carter was cited for this head high tackle v Wales at Millennium Stadium a few years ago....

...because of a British Media campaign and outcry, yet in the same match, Andy Powell committed this piece of thuggery...

which went completely unpunished; no penalty or yellow card, no citing. It happened right under the nose of Referee Blind Freddy (a.k.a Alan Lewis, the most useless referee to ever to come out of Ireland)

THAT is the sort double standards you can expect when you are a New Zealand rugby team playing in the British Isles.

..

Those two clips aren't from the same game....