[2015 RWC] Pool A: England vs. Wales (26/09/2015)

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

The flip side is that, unless I'm remembering incorrectly, Mako's scrummaging improved a lot over the last season, and he looked powerful there towards the end. For me, the moment Mako matches or goes past Marler in the scrum is the moment Mako overtakes him for a starting spot; Mako's carrying is too good to ignore when that is the case.

Yeah..to be honest regardless of form, I'm quite sick of having spindly props who go backwards rather than forwards with ball in hand. To be fair, Marler has been better than Cole at running into gaps where Cole likes to hit brick walls...

But its always so refreshing when Brookes and Mako come on and carry

 

[RedruthRFC]

I think I've mentioned Cole and Marler even Lawes a couple of times. My only explanation is they were pretty awesome during the 6 nations and the management has hopes they'll come good. Someone said (think it was you) they say 0 reason why that would happen and I agree. At least I can see some level of reasoning on this one.

Well said sir. Rightly or wrongly, Lancaster's decision has been made to deal with perceived shortcomings and (presumably) match up against what's in front of them. Putting the same tight five out this week as last conforms perfectly to Einstein's definition of insanity - doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting different results.

 

[kesh]

"You are right to say that our spark has come from the back 3, but tell me how are they going to get the ball now with those three in the midfield? Even if there was a will to spread the ball wide, Farrell, Burgess and Barritt are nto particularly quick of feet or hands. "

If you look at Saracens who both BB and Faz play for who our our top try scorers? Our wingers by a country mile, so I don't think you should be too worried about the ball getting to the back 3

Faz does have a decent long pass. In the middle of the pitch he can easily fling it to the wing. If they need to fling it out wide fast, can also use Burgess as a dummy runner - Brown who misses out BB - to wing. Or have Burgess take it in while Faz loops around to receive it back like in the France game. Depends as has been said on using Burgess a lot more and whether he's up to it. He does have decent hands for someone who's played prop all his career..

- - - Updated - - -

Sadly this looks like the plan. Seriously the more and more I think about it I'm struggling to think is our plan is to

a) Get the ball.
b) Score points once we have it.

Now correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the point of rugby to score more points than the opposition? I'm just struggling to think how we plan to score any.

a) Get the ball.
b) ????

= Profit.

 

[Yoshimitsu]

a) Get the ball.
b) ????

= Profit.

He he! Rowntree looks a bit like a Gnome. It is getting a bit like that to be honest.

 

[Every Time Ref]

If you look at Saracens who both BB and Faz play for who our our top try scorers? Our wingers by a country mile, so I don't think you should be too worried about the ball getting to the back 3

True, I do think Farrell's ability to get it wide quickly when the time is right is underrated. However, Saracens don't get their wings tries by scintillating back play, they smash teams up front with round the corner runners and aggressive rucking until there aren't enough defenders and get it wide to score in the corner. Or they kick through on the bouncy 4g pitch.

England's pack is not going to smash the Welsh at the breakdown; and we're not playing on a 4g pitch. Oh, and they don't have Hodgson, which is another factor.

 

[TobesHodges]

In the BBC interview SL comes across as if Faz is the #1 Fly-half.. Even i'm surprised at this.. He must be stalking mine and GN10 posts on here

RE: Also Scott Williams takes a pop at Sam Burgess, Sam's reply was "Who?" :/ Awkward..

 

[Peat]

Most backlines can get the ball to the wings if they want to, which is in itself questionable with this selection, but the trick is to get the ball to the wings in space. Between them, I do not believe Farrell, Burgess, Barritt and Brown possess the necessary qualities to create that space most of the time. The most likely scenarios I can see for it being created are a) Set Piece b) Absurd Forward Dominance. Our set piece is shaky and our forwards are unlikely to be that dominant.

I'd also stress Ben Youngs isn't exactly a friend to his wingers either. He'll do a decent job of teeing up forwards and going for holes himself, but he's not going to fire the long accurate passes that make the midfield's life easy if they want to go wide.

 

[mpj29]

defence

By playing Burgess at 12, it informs Wales exactly how England will both attack, but more importantly defend. Burgess has not been playing center for very long and so the defensive patterns will be designed around him. This means, a big rugby league style push. My point being, that Wales and Biggar will be practicing their chips over the top or their grubbers behind. Sean Edwards & Howley will be working out how to beat the England push.

 

[Peat]

I am definitely expecting the chip to get an airing, particularly since England rarely use a sweeper.

Wouldn't be utterly surprised to see Wales try and move the ball very wide very early, let Roberts fix Burgess and then Williams can get on the outside of Barritt, at which point there's a two on one if Liam Williams enters the line; not like a narrow blitz doesn't make that easy either.

 

[Every Time Ref]

Most backlines can get the ball to the wings if they want to, which is in itself questionable with this selection, but the trick is to get the ball to the wings in space. Between them, I do not believe Farrell, Burgess, Barritt and Brown possess the necessary qualities to create that space most of the time. The most likely scenarios I can see for it being created are a) Set Piece b) Absurd Forward Dominance. Our set piece is shaky and our forwards are unlikely to be that dominant.

I'd also stress Ben Youngs isn't exactly a friend to his wingers either. He'll do a decent job of teeing up forwards and going for holes himself, but he's not going to fire the long accurate passes that make the midfield's life easy if they want to go wide.

Between the four of those only two really have the necessary line-breaking skill and/or power to attract defenders - defenders not attracted = defenders drifting onto wingers. QED. This selection is madness

 

[Yoshimitsu]

I am definitely expecting the chip to get an airing, particularly since England rarely use a sweeper.

Wouldn't be utterly surprised to see Wales try and move the ball very wide very early, let Roberts fix Burgess and then Williams can get on the outside of Barritt, at which point there's a two on one if Liam Williams enters the line; not like a narrow blitz doesn't make that easy either.

Yep at least we've selected our scrum half with the most experience of sweeping at club level............................ Also as for defence I have the fear. We tried a tight push before against New Zealand? Iirc correctly led to them simply passing quickly to Savea who we inexplicably decided to give 1/2 a pitch and a 1 on 1 on Marland Yarde to work out. It didn't end well for us. Now with the best will in the world the Welsh don't have a Savea, but its still a worry.

 

[TheSaffycen]

It's too easy to think of Tipuric as "just another fetcher". He's quite possibly the most naturally talented forward in attack in the NH, probably even more so than any of the Welsh backs. Faletau could be tasked to bring down Vunipola in defence. Faletau has such a strong defensive work rate for an 8 that you don't really need Lydiate around. But it's fairly odd that Tipuric isn't out there, being in the form he is in.

Indeed, he is an incredible player. But I think that Lydiate is better suited to this game. With the team we selected Wales should focus on just winning collisions against a pretty predictable gameplan (or so I think).
In my opinion they play either Warburton or Tipuric for this game, Warbs is the captain and more physical and is more suitable. He will probably do the same as 2013 and come off the bench and rip us apart.

 

[Every Time Ref]

Yep at least we've selected our scrum half with the most experience of sweeping at club level............................ Also as for defence I have the fear. We tried a tight push before against New Zealand? Iirc correctly led to them simply passing quickly to Savea who we inexplicably decided to give 1/2 a pitch and a 1 on 1 on Marland Yarde to work out. It didn't end well for us. Now with the best will in the world the Welsh don't have a Savea, but its still a worry.

To be fair, they also don't have the handling of the All Blacks. However, what they do have is in-depth knowledge of a power-in-midfield gameplan, they are probably the world's most experienced practitioners, it's not like we're going to catch them by surprise.

 

[mpj29]

Indeed, he is an incredible player. But I think that Lydiate is better suited to this game. With the team we selected Wales should focus on just winning collisions against a pretty predictable gameplan (or so I think).
In my opinion they play either Warburton or Tipuric for this game, Warbs is the captain and more physical and is more suitable. He will probably do the same as 2013 and come off the bench and rip us apart.

England have demonstrated to Wales the need for Lydiate's selection, anyone remember Joe Worsley!

 

[TheSaffycen]

Yep at least we've selected our scrum half with the most experience of sweeping at club level............................ Also as for defence I have the fear. We tried a tight push before against New Zealand? Iirc correctly led to them simply passing quickly to Savea who we inexplicably decided to give 1/2 a pitch and a 1 on 1 on Marland Yarde to work out. It didn't end well for us. Now with the best will in the world the Welsh don't have a Savea, but its still a worry.

But they do have George North, 1 on 1 with half a field I would bet he would score a couple of tries.

 

[optimuswolf]

Wood has carried very well in the last 2 games aswell imo

Wood has out of nowhere developed a bit of a carrying game...or so it seems.

 

[kesh]

To be fair, they also don't have the handling of the All Blacks. However, what they do have is in-depth knowledge of a power-in-midfield gameplan, they are probably the world's most experienced practitioners, it's not like we're going to catch them by surprise.

Which brings up the point of why does SL always seems to adapt to his opponents game plans, with their game plan? It never works. Play an aggressive side v SA, lose. Play a kicking game v Ire, lose. Play to match NZ's with pace, lose. See the pattern? Now his playing Warrenball against Warrenball!

Having Faz, Burgess, Barritt and Goode as our midfield at 60 minutes as the game begins to open up...:mellow:

 

[Yoshimitsu]

Which brings up the point of why does SL always seems to adapt to his opponents game plans, with their game plan? It never works. Play an aggressive side v SA, lose. Play a kicking game v Ire, lose. Play to match NZ's with pace, lose. See the pattern? Now his playing Warrenball against Warrenball!

Having Faz, Burgess, Barritt and Goode as our midfield at 60 minutes as the game begins to open up...:mellow:

I guess he's a fan of fighting fire with fire. Though to be fair if the fire brigade used that as their only fire suppression technique they'd be a lot less popular than they are.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Wood has out of nowhere developed a bit of a carrying game...or so it seems.

Perhaps a bit early do say that but I agree there were a few encouraging signs on Friday as well as against Ireland.

If Wood could somehow add that extra dimension to his game I would treat him as a more serious option. Whether it's carrying or breakdown, he needs that additional 'point of difference' as Lancaster would put it. Its not enough to just be very fit and to tackle your arse off.

 

[ncurd]

What's Goode's and Barritt's point of difference?