2014 Super Rugby: Blues v Crusaders (Round 3)

[Draggs]

Everybody calling for Marshall to start, look up Iestyn Harris.

 

[ABs2011]

If Marshall had gone straight from the NRL into the ITM, and then been expected to do a full pre-season with the Blues, he'd probably be injured or at least fatigued by now. Certainly I think jumping straight into the ITM from the NRL would have been a disaster, both physically but also for his confidence. He's got to learn a new game and while I agree you need a lot of game time for that throwing him into the ITM ASAP would have resulted in little more than some very bad performances and a lot of self doubt IMO.

I get where you are coming from, but he could have been, sorry should have been at the very least slowly worked in to lower level rugby, no problem at all. He is a professional athlete being paid upwards of $1m to play rugby.

Do you really think the injury argument is a good one?? Consider what other NRL players of similar caliber did last year:
Benji finished up Sep 4th​ but many played longer because they were good enough to help their teams get into the NRL finals (playing as late as Oct 6th​). Quite a few then went to the RLWC (training camps began early Oct tournament kicked off late Oct). For those that didn't play in the RLWC NRL pre-season training started the first week of November. They have pretty much been training ever since. Many also played the nines, and then pretty much straight into pre-season NRL. Then the new season kicks off next week! These guys are as tough as nails and they barely get any breaks at all. For me, Benji wanted a break, he didn't need one and the results are now clear for all to see!!
On top of that one could also argue that Benji largely checked out mentally from NRL a long time before the season ended, he was benched in the middle of the season and played like rubbish for most of the season. Compare that to his earlier career and it would appear to me he was nowhere near giving the100% he used to.
In terms of a disaster, what would be worse? Going from the NRL to the ITM cup (couple weeks rest maybe), learning the game and being as ready as possible for Super Rugby? Or the self-admitted disaster that the Blues find themselves in now, with a $1m dollar man that can't make the starting XV cause he is not ready, and would refuse to play even if the coach asked him to!! The later has disaster written all over it, the former, well, you get my point, it is what I think they should have done.

 

[steblin]

Cheers. You may well be right, but it would seem a stretch IMHO. Once Kerr is back I think the Blues backline will function a lot better. Piutau at 13 would probably work over time, but he is such a great outside back and has a pretty firm grip in the ABs in that area that I don't like the sound of shifting him in. Reminds me of when they shifted Cullen in to 13!

I also just don't get it. The Blues (without injury) have a very good backline. Weepu, Kerr, Nonu, Saiili, Halia, Moala, and Piutau. The only reason you would consider shifting Piutau in, for anything other than a stop gap measure to cover for injury, is because you feel like you have to find a place for your "million dollar man". BUT if your million dollar man isn't good enough to command a starting spot then leave him out I say.

For a while I really liked the idea of Piutau at centre, and I'd be interested to see how he does, but the last thing I want to happen is stunt the development of a kid with real talent.

If I was so draw up the backline with Marshall, I'd go:
15 - Marshall
14 - Halai / Moala / Li
13 - Saili
12 - Nonu
11 - Piutau
10 - Kerr
9 - Weepu

Piutau was fantastic for the AB's from the wing, doesn't get quite the freedom as he does at 15, but still gets plenty of opportunities and is more familiar than centre.

 

[ABs2011]

Everybody calling for Marshall to start, look up Iestyn Harris.

If that is the case, then does that not make you wonder why he is not? JK, Henry et al are not idiots. If Marshall is not starting there are very good reasons why!

 

[ABs2011]

For a while I really liked the idea of Piutau at centre, and I'd be interested to see how he does, but the last thing I want to happen is stunt the development of a kid with real talent.

If I was so draw up the backline with Marshall, I'd go:
15 - Marshall
14 - Halai / Moala / Li
13 - Saili
12 - Nonu
11 - Piutau
10 - Kerr
9 - Weepu

Piutau was fantastic for the AB's from the wing, doesn't get quite the freedom as he does at 15, but still gets plenty of opportunities and is more familiar than centre.

Yup that is what I would say too (with Halai at 14). Although the caveat to that backline is that you "have to" include Benji. What would your first choice backline look like (barring injuries)? Would Benji be there?

 

[ABs2011]

OK, I will once and for all shut up re Benji. I do genuinely wish him and the Blues well, I just think it has been an absolute disaster and complete waste of money the way they have gone about things! For me, it is simply unjustified when people call for him to start given, amongst other things, he and his coaches have confessed he is not ready.

So, back to the game. I did head down to the TAB and took the Crusaders (although I had to settle for a lower line, -4.5 and lower odds H2H). I'm probably going to be roved wrong, but for me the TAB have gotten the odds wrong here, so on the balance of probabilities, backing the Crusaders seems like the way to go. Read back, McCaw fit to play, and the whip that Blackadder appears to be cracking right now were the clinchers!

Anyone at all backing the Blues?

 

[Draggs]

If that is the case, then does that not make you wonder why he is not? JK, Henry et al are not idiots. If Marshall is not starting there are very good reasons why!

Harris was rushed in undercooked and never given a chance to settle, went back to league after a season. Marshall will be eased in.

 

[steblin]

Yup that is what I would say too (with Halai at 14). Although the caveat to that backline is that you "have to" include Benji. What would your first choice backline look like (barring injuries)? Would Benji be there?

At the moment, no he wouldn't, he hasn't shown enough yet to bump one of the other players out. I do think he will come good though, with time, I just don't think it will be at 10.

15 - Piutau
14 - Halai
13 - Saili
12 - Nonu
11 - Moala / Li
10 - Kerr
9 - Weepu

 

[Larksea]

I see room for Halai to drop out and Piutau to play on the wing, benji at 15.

Frank had a great run for a while last season but hes been quiet for a long time now. Seems to have lost a yard of pace?

looking at the two teams, Read back, Taylor starting and a new player to debut at 10 for the blues I think you would back the crusaders for this game.

 

[Icemn]

tom taylor.... mmmmm... saders taking this one, esp with read back aswell...

 

[Muzzy]

Can't say I can see Marshall as a 12. He has never been the best on defense, I think he will find this aspect of rugby difficult at 10 let alone 12! A key attribute of modern day 12's is the ability to take the ball into contact if required, again something that Marshall does not excel at. For me I think his best position will be 10, I just think it will take some time for him to adjust to the different demands of Rugby Union.

I agree the Crusaders midfield lacks a bit of creativity, but Lee-Lo and Crotty were two of the best players for the Crusaders against the Chiefs. I think eventually Tom Taylor & Ryan Crotty will form the Crusaders midfield with Slade or Bleyendaal starting at 10 (or Carter when he eventually returns).



I agree with that backline, with the exception of the left wing position. On form Guildford is a very good Super Rugby player, while Nadolo is completely unproven at this level. He couldn't even get a game for an Australian Super Rugby franchise in the years he was in Australia and was disappointing in his brief stints in France and England. It is all well and good to dominate the Japanese League, but I'm yet to be convinced he will be good enough for Super Rugby. At best I see him as an impact player from the bench, but I'm happy if he proves me wrong!

Nadolo was only young when he was with the Warratahs, he's a much better player now. In France and England he had some off field disciplinary problems so he never got much game time over there. He only joined the Crusaders a few weeks ago after finishing his season in Japan. The coaches said they don't want to rush him into the team and that he wouldn't get game time until around week 5

 

[Darwin]

Nadolo was only young when he was with the Warratahs, he's a much better player now. In France and England he had some off field disciplinary problems so he never got much game time over there. He only joined the Crusaders a few weeks ago after finishing his season in Japan. The coaches said they don't want to rush him into the team and that he wouldn't get game time until around week 5

Nadolo was 22 when he left Australia. While this is quite young, many wings are already at (or at least are very near) their peaks in their early 20s. He may well have made big improvements to his game, but I think it is fair to say he is completely unproven at Super Rugby level (or any comparative level). He could prove to be very good, but I have seen nothing in his career thus far to suggest he should be starting on the wing for the Crusaders...

 

[Draggs]

Looking forward to this one, lets see how long before I fall asleep.
Taylor should offer more stability than Bleyendaal. I know a few call him too conservative, but I was quietly impressed with him being thrust into it for the ABs.

Nothing gets me more excited than the cheesy guitar-warrior intro on SKY NZ, always means time for Soup. Anybody here or will I be doing commentary solo?

 

[Darwin]

I'm here, but I'm looking forward to reading your solo commentary

 

[Draggs]

Haha, like I said, I'll be out before H/T, and wakeup during the first try during Rebels v Cheetahs when the Fox Rugby Crims wake me up screaming. Happens every week.

 

[Darwin]

Hickey looking sharp so far...

Blues lineout trying to be far too fancy...

 

[Draggs]

Hickey looking sharp so far...

Blues lineout trying to be far too fancy...

TBH, after Noakes' performance last week, the bar is pretty damn low. I said he would be a loss for Highlanders a few years back... Whoops.

Waste from Piutau, good ball in the 22 gone.

 

[Darwin]

TBH, after Noakes' performance last week, the bar is pretty damn low. I said he would be a loss for Highlanders a few years back... Whoops.

Waste from Piutau, good ball in the 22 gone.

Yep, poor kick by Piutau, but they got the ball back anyway.

I was happy when Noakes left the Highlanders - it was nice to be right for a change

EDIT: Tom Donnelly looks about 100. He has been playing like a 100 year old man for the last couple of years, so it is perhaps not too surprising....

 

[Draggs]

Yep, poor kick by Piutau, but they got the ball back anyway.

I was happy when Noakes left the Highlanders - it was nice to be right for a change

I guess my concern was Slade was spending more time in the infirmary than backline and Sopoaga was 'interesting' to watch at that stage. Still remember his debut for Highlanders, v Hurricanes 2011. Scored a nice try IIRC but absolutely butchered a few kicks.
Crusaders get ball in Blues half but already lost it. Piutau has some tricks eh?
Not a great kick from Taylor there.. eesh.

 

[austingtir]

Im thinking we might see more of Slade for this super15 than Dagg possibly.. Depending on weather the Crusaders end up playing him at 10 or not guess.

I reckon Dagg was bloody average last year and that might come back to haunt him.... or he's just going to get the extended rest that most of the top AB's get.