Week 3: Crusaders v Waratahs

[Amobokoboko]

Yep. They will be signed by the players who played in them.

This was announced at the ground.

VIa which channel: Trademe.co.nz, Ebay ...?

 

[smartcooky]

http://tvnz.co.nz/rugby-news/crusaders-wear-west-coast-jersey-next-year-3977101

TradeMe.co.nz

 

[Ostrayian]

Just after SBW's try, I was thinking about what the Waratahs coach said before the match.....

[textarea]"Defensively, there could be some weaknesses as well, which we would look to exploit," he told The Australian.[/textarea]

....and then these two guys score three tries between them.

As a coach, I reckon it pays not to say things like that, as they can often have a tendency to come back and bite you in the arse.

i read that thinking clearly this guy didnt watch the NPC last season.
Great win for the crusaders. Brought the reTahds down back to earth. Unfortunately it clearly shows how far behind the ozzie teams are to the top NZ and Saffa teams.

 

[Sam Owen]

Unfortunately it clearly shows how far behind the ozzie teams are to the top NZ and Saffa teams.

Still early in the season Ost.

 

[d1e1m]

There's no doubting the immense offensive power these two guys bring, danger from anywhere in the field in the run-up and on the counter. However, they have yet to face a similar blockbusting mid like Nonu or Devilliers and Ranger gave them a hard lesson when the Blues beat the Crusaders two weeks ago. I"m not saying you want these guys are the "weak-links" in the team, if the there is one its probably at wing, but Blackadders deciding that trying to outscore the opposition is the way to go with the new interpretations and the way these 2 play. If Blackadder wants more defense, don't doubt he'll put on Crotty or Berquist.

 

[Sam Owen]

There's no doubting the immense offensive power these two guys bring, danger from anywhere in the field in the run-up and on the counter. However, they have yet to face a similar blockbusting mid like Nonu or Devilliers and Ranger gave them a hard lesson when the Blues beat the Crusaders two weeks ago. I"m not saying you want these guys are the "weak-links" in the team, if the there is one its probably at wing, but Blackadders deciding that trying to outscore the opposition is the way to go with the new interpretations and the way these 2 play. If Blackadder wants more defense, don't doubt he'll put on Crotty or Berquist.

Which two midfielders you reffering to brother?...I know Sonny wasnt playing in that game against us (Blues).

 

[smartcooky]

Which two midfielders you reffering to brother?...I know Sonny wasnt playing in that game against us (Blues).

Yep. I don't know what he's on about. Adam Whitelock played 12 for the Crusaders in that match, not Williams

Whitelock made two tackles and missed one
Fruean made five tackles and missed two

The whole team missed 19 tackles in the match, so they were not much different to anyone else.

 

[dan the man]

Sonny Bill did get it together and had a good game, but he had a few shockers in the first 20mins... his passing was very sloppy and a couple of stray offloads inside his own 22 were lucky not be be points for the Waratahs
Fruean is definitely the form centre right now! Really hop that he gets a shot in an AB's jersey this year, even if it's mostly during the Tri Nations

 

[d1e1m]

And you think SBW would've made that big a difference in the Blues game. I'm saying all this as a Crusaders fan that the lack of defensive options in midfield and wider concerns me, especially if Berrick Barnes had played instead of Hangers. Freuan is looking very good though, think he'll break all sorts of record if he keeps scoring like this and it's hard to see him being stopped considering he was even bumping off props.

 

[smartcooky]

And you think SBW would've made that big a difference in the Blues game. I'm saying all this as a Crusaders fan that the lack of defensive options in midfield and wider concerns me, especially if Berrick Barnes had played instead of Hangers. Freuan is looking very good though, think he'll break all sorts of record if he keeps scoring like this and it's hard to see him being stopped considering he was even bumping off props.

Nope, I don't think SBW would have made any difference. I any case, the Crusaders didn't lose the game in the midfield, they lost it in the forwards and out wide.

 

[Larksea]

awesome win for the caders, shame not bonus point but 4 is good against what is likely Aussies best super team.

Sonny Bill had a very poor start but he did end up making up for it. I dont think there are any major question marks over his defence, his defence really impressed me in the NPC and in general players who come from a league background usally do have good defence. And having carter inside him will just make that job easier, carter has to be one of the best tackles in the world.

Could this be Wyatt Crockett's year? I thought he was super impressive, all over the park. Couple of bustouts and the Caders scrum was rock solid. Also think signs are good for brad thorn too still looking good at ~36 for world cup year.

Matt Todd and in particular George whitelock were on fire, bit of a miss tackle from todd at the end but at 22 years old he has a huge future.

 

[Sam Owen]

Tahs did miss Berrick who would have exposed the defensive weakness of SBW and Freuan.

There's no doubting the immense offensive power these two guys bring, danger from anywhere in the field in the run-up and on the counter. However, they have yet to face a similar blockbusting mid like Nonu or Devilliers and Ranger gave them a hard lesson when the Blues beat the Crusaders two weeks ago. I"m not saying you want these guys are the "weak-links" in the team, if the there is one its probably at wing, but Blackadders deciding that trying to outscore the opposition is the way to go with the new interpretations and the way these 2 play. If Blackadder wants more defense, don't doubt he'll put on Crotty or Berquist.

Inaccurate information here thats if you're refferring to SBW and trying to make an example of SBWs defence. d1e1m can you please provide us with video footage of SBW in a Canterbury ITM or Saders jersey dropping off at least 2 tackles?..

Which two midfielders you reffering to brother?...I know Sonny wasnt playing in that game against us (Blues).

And you think SBW would've made that big a difference in the Blues game.

What??..No, no read properly mate no-one said that, I didnt say that, now you're changing the subject. You seemed to insinuate that SBW and Fruean got taught a lesson by Ranger, if so you just got it wrong in your haste to come up with an example of SBWs supposed poor defence. You just got it wrong nothing more brother.

 

[d1e1m]

You misunderstand me purposefully, I'm not saying SBW is a poor defender, he's not meant to be defensive player, like saying McCaw is the weak link in the Crusaders lineout. You'd be hard pressed to find footage of SBW tackling in the ITM period except for his try saver against Masaga and his ankle-tap against Stowers. And THEM isn't refereeing to SBW or Freaun but the Crusaders backs in general. You're too quick to assume I'm bashing SBW or Freuan, which is most definitely not the case.

 

[Sam Owen]

Tahs did miss Berrick who would have exposed the defensive weakness of SBW and Freuan.

If Blackadder wants more defense, don't doubt he'll put on Crotty or Berquist.

You misunderstand me purposefully, I'm not saying SBW is a poor defender.

Purposefully???....I red your posts it suggests what it suggests, its right there in your words brother.

So all that you've wrote suggests SBW is NOT a poor defender?..read your first 2 quotes and then tell me how I was misunderstood. Crotty is a 12 and I cant imagine Berquist at 13 so he must be a 12 as well.

he's not meant to be defensive player, like saying McCaw is the weak link in the Crusaders lineout.

What the hell???....oh ok you believe SBW is not meant to be a defensive player?...surely you dont believe that.

Sonny not supposed to be a defensive player is like saying McCaw is the weak link in the Crusaders lineout???.....what the hell man, Im misunderstanding you but not purposefully.

You'd be hard pressed to find footage of SBW tackling in the ITM period except for his try saver against Masaga and his ankle-tap against Stowers

Fair enough I think it'll be hard to find anyones missed tackles on the net. I shouldnt have asked you to provide that, my bad.

Anyway if you look up Sonnys defence you'd probably just find big hits but thats something else.

And THEM isn't refereeing to SBW or Freaun but the Crusaders backs in general. You're too quick to assume I'm bashing SBW or Freuan, which is most definitely not the case.

FINALLY you've answered the question (for cryin out loud). Im not the only one that assumed that you were refferring to Fruean/SBW, Cooky too thought the same and with good reason too. Besides I didnt really assume because I asked the question first (remember) I asked if those 2 were whom you were refferring to and you didnt answer it instead you replied...

And you think SBW would've made that big a difference in the Blues game. I'm saying all this as a Crusaders fan that the lack of defensive options in midfield and wider concerns me, especially if Berrick Barnes had played instead of Hangers

That was the reply instead of answering the question. I asked if thats who you were refferring to, you just changed the subject, thats the facts but now you say you wernt refferring to SBW and Fruean despite your many previous posts before talking about SBW and Fruean as a defensive problem for the 'Saders.

This is how I assumed you were talking about the SBW/Fruean combo...

Tahs did miss Berrick who would have exposed the defensive weakness of SBW and Freuan.

And then your very next post....

There's no doubting the immense offensive power these two guys bring, danger from anywhere in the field in the run-up and on the counter. However, they have yet to face a similar blockbusting mid like Nonu or Devilliers and Ranger gave them a hard lesson when the Blues beat the Crusaders two weeks ago. I"m not saying you want these guys are the "weak-links" in the team, if the there is one its probably at wing, but Blackadders deciding that trying to outscore the opposition is the way to go with the new interpretations and the way these 2 play. If Blackadder wants more defense, don't doubt he'll put on Crotty or Berquist.

Do you now see why I thought you were talking about Sonny?...its hard to think that the 2 you keep talking about in the post above is all of a sudden, without any mention, changed to Whitelock and Fruean. It looks like that post is refferring to 2 midfielders and before that we were talking about 2 midfielders, SBW and Fruean.

First you said SBW and Fruean had defensive weaknesses, your very next post you talk about the immense offensive power these two bring, it sounds like SBW/Fruean. Nonu, DeVilliers are 12s so is Crotty not sure about Berquist. Your post before that you were talkin about SBW/Fruean so I had to answer the question that you've finally answered and thanks for that.

Ive replied with PROOF undeniable proof and I havent changed the arguement as a way out, Ive stayed on the subject with understanding, honesty and fairness.

I have no more questions your honour (OHHHH.....LOL).
​

 

[Larksea]

You misunderstand me purposefully, I'm not saying SBW is a poor defender, he's not meant to be defensive player, like saying McCaw is the weak link in the Crusaders lineout. You'd be hard pressed to find footage of SBW tackling in the ITM period except for his try saver against Masaga and his ankle-tap against Stowers. And THEM isn't refereeing to SBW or Freaun but the Crusaders backs in general. You're too quick to assume I'm bashing SBW or Freuan, which is most definitely not the case.

his defence was actually one of the reasons he was a superstar in the NRL and got so much attention. Was also the first thing that impressed me about his game when he started in the ITM cup.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

his defence was actually one of the reasons he was a superstar in the NRL and got so much attention.

Because of his shoulder barges...
His defence wasn't great in Top 14 - Not bad, but not great

 

[smartcooky]

his defence was actually one of the reasons he was a superstar in the NRL and got so much attention. Was also the first thing that impressed me about his game when he started in the ITM cup.

I don't necessarily agree that Rugby League backs are "automatically" good defenders in Rugby Union. Defensive strategies and running lines are often different between the two codes (I'm sure Olyy, as a "dual coder" will back me up on this) and often, players making the switch have to rethink their defense.

Having said that, people underestimate SBW's ability to learn. The coaches at Canterbury, the Crusaders and the All Blacks all describe him as "a sponge", ready to soak up every scrap of knowledge thrown his way.

I have a friend at Canterbury rugby who told me they were surprised at some of the things they had to teach him, given that he had already played a season in the Top 14. Somehow, I don't think Top 14 teams have very good system when it comes to teaching newcomers to the game at adult level.

 

[Charles]

I have a friend at Canterbury rugby who told me they were surprised at some of the things they had to teach him, given that he had already played a season in the Top 14. Somehow, I don't think Top 14 teams have very good system when it comes to teaching newcomers to the game at adult level.

Is this a smug, petty low-blow at the T14?

I don't see why the T14 should have a good system to teach adult newcomers. It's not like it's a common occurence, is it?

 

[smartcooky]

Is this a smug, petty low-blow at the T14?

Only if you want it to be Charles

I don't see why the T14 should have a good system to teach adult newcomers. It's not like it's a common occurence, is it?

I would have thought that most, if not all T14 teams have academies. All they would need is someone with a bit of nous in there somewhere.

AIUI, SBW went straight into a match for Toulon within a week of arriving, little if any time to acclimatise to the playing conditions there. To me, that is like chucking him in the deep end and hoping he knows how to swim.

Canterbury took a different approach. They had him playing Club Rugby for Belfast for a couple of matches before bringing him on as a sub in his first ITM cup game.

Even the Aussies have their League converts playing Shute Shield or Hospital Cup before throwing them into a Super Rugby line-up

 

[Charles]

Only if you want it to be Charles

Haha no hard feelings...

I would have thought that most, if not all T14 teams have academies. All they would need is someone with a bit of nous in there somewhere.

The clubs do indeed have academies. They are however not designed to accomodate adult league converts. As you know, league is almost non existant in France and switches are few and far between, as opposed to Oz (and NZ to a certain extent) where coaches and trainers are used to it.

AIUI, SBW went straight into a match for Toulon within a week of arriving, little if any time to acclimatise to the playing conditions there. To me, that is like chucking him in the deep end and hoping he knows how to swim.

Canterbury took a different approach. They had him playing Club Rugby for Belfast for a couple of matches before bringing him on as a sub in his first ITM cup game. Even the Aussies have their League converts playing Shute Shield or Hospital Cup before throwing them into a Super Rugby line-up

You know very much the differences between the T14 and the NZ setup. Canterbury took a different approach because they could.
For Toulon, SBW was an (expensive) investement, and they wanted their ROI asap, without mentioning the fact that you have to be immediately effective in T14. As you said, it is very much a sink or swim approach.

I think it sucks, but the championship setup and the sums invested make it like that.