2014 Super Rugby: Blues v Crusaders (Round 3)

[steblin]

Some bold moves by Kirwin, pleased he's as hacked off as the rest of us!

Noakes was never the answer last year, he got the opporunity last week through injury, however all the same faults were there. Kirwin knows we're not moving forward with him at 10, so lets roll the dice! Have to be honest, know next to nothing about Hickey despite watching the ITM Cup, never a name that stuck in my memory.

Really pleased to see both Li and Tuipulotu get the starts. Li has massive potential and alot of people spoke highly of Tuipulotu in the ITM Cup, so I say give them a crack at it!

If we lose Braid, with the relative inexperience throughout the pack, we're in real trouble.

As for Piutau (guy is incredible!) I read somewhere last week that Kirwin is thinking about him at both centre and first five this year. I think he'd be excellent in a role where he gets the ball in his hand more as he certainly likes taking the ball into contact. Certainly everything seems to be pointing to Marshall at 15 for the near / mid future, would likley give us a chance to get the most out of him some time soon.

F Saili is a big loss, but he's also a big idiot! Apparently he's been carrying this foot injury but playing it down to coaches / trainers, now it looks to have developed into a stress fracture ... and we all know how tempremental those things can be healing.

 

[steblin]

Though I do think Frank Halai is a tad over-rated

You know, I'm starting to think the same. From what I've seen so far he's a good finisher (fast and strong), but seems to lack creativity and spark.

 

[Shaggy]

:lol: I love a good pun.....

Anyways.... a couple of interesting selections for the Blues. Probably not too surprising that they are easing the old men in the front row into action from the bench. Tu'ungafasi did a solid job last weekend, but Prattley is still probably the better LH prop (mainly because Tu'ugafasi is much better on the TH side). Glad to see Tuipolotu given a chance in the starting lineup - I felt he really lifted the Blues last weekend with his powerful ball running. Hopefully (for the Blues sake) Braid is fit.

I'm slightly surprised to see Hickey at 10, but I actually don't mind his selection at all. He is probably not quite ready for Super Rugby yet (he has only just turned 20), but already I think he is at least as good as Noakes, and has the potential to be much better. He isn't afraid to take the line on, is a pretty good goal-kicker, and despite his lack of size is a pretty solid defender (far better than Noakes!). He still makes a few too many errors and needs to work on how to control the game, but he has all the tools to be a very good Super Rugby player. No surprise to see Moala into centre and Li coming in on the wing. It will certainly be a massive test for Li, but it is exciting to see him given a shot.

A couple of very interesting selections by the Crusaders too. Surprised to see Perry starting ahead of Crockett on the LH side again, and I would have thought Romano would have started ahead of Bird this week given the strong impact he made off the bench in the last match. Good to see Read back, but personally I would have found room for Todd in the starting lineup (with McCaw shifting to 6).

No surprise to see Bleyendaal dropped, but I was expecting Slade at 10, Taylor at 12, and Crotty at 13. I'm actually glad they have maintained Lee Lo in the midfield though as he had a strong game against the Chiefs, and I'm not unhappy to see Dagg dropped to the bench as his poor display (I am surprised to see it though). I'm a bit disappointed to see McNicholl dropped from the 23 as I think he could be very good at this level, but he did have a shocker against the Chiefs so probably deserves to be dropped. Rob Thompson is an interesting selection - he came down from Manawatu to Canterbury last season as a midfield back but ended up getting a few games covering wing off the bench. He played so well he got a couple of starts on the wing, and then got a Crusaders WTG spot. I'm sure 99.9% of the NZ rugby public had never heard of this guy this time last season, so it is a pretty meteoric rise for him. I'm not sure whether he really has enough pace for the wing, but he is a big strong guy, and does seem to know his way to the try line.



I don't think the Blues will have to resort to playing Piutau at 10, but they are certainly crying out for a quality 10 (I believe Kerr is the answer, but time will tell). While I do agree Lam and Stowers are both good enough for Super Rugby I don't think they are really any better than the starting Blues wings. Though I do think Frank Halai is a tad over-rated he debuted for the AB's at the end of last season and had a good season for the Blues last year. Li is perhaps a bit of an unknown at this level, but he is a freakish talent (he is still 18!). He seems to be able to break tackles at will - there may still be a few question marks over his defense and ability to read the game, but these are things I believe he will pick up pretty quickly. Behind those two the Blues also have Moala (who is playing at centre) who I consider as the Blues best wing, along with Visinia who is also young and very talented. In any case I think the Blues have far more worries than who they have on the wing....

I'm quite pleased that Perry is still starting, and Crockett isn't - Perry didn't seem to do too much wrong against the Chiefs, but Crockett still seems to get penalised a lot (might have something to do with propping himself up by putting his hand on the ground) ... I agree with the Bird/Romano comment though.

I thought that the Crusaders may have put Slade in at 10, and Taylor in at Fullback ... I guess they may swap around positionally during the game though, if needed

 

[donmcdazzle]

Rob Thompson is an interesting selection - he came down from Manawatu to Canterbury last season as a midfield back but ended up getting a few games covering wing off the bench. He played so well he got a couple of starts on the wing, and then got a Crusaders WTG spot. I'm sure 99.9% of the NZ rugby public had never heard of this guy this time last season, so it is a pretty meteoric rise for him. I'm not sure whether he really has enough pace for the wing, but he is a big strong guy, and does seem to know his way to the try line.

His brother Isaac had a few seasons deputising for Cruden at 10 in Manawatu. Rob was pretty good in club rugby, but i don't even think his biggest fan would ever have imagined him starting on the wing at Super level.. He is obviously a good talent, frustrates me that Manawatu let him slip given the lack of talent in our midfield but like I say he wasn't exactly that amazing in club rugby.

 

[Ruckyou]

Cant believe Marshall isnt starting , sure he lacks in defense and the kicking game, but he makes up for it with creativity and flair, also has a good combination with Piri Weepu (although they only played 10 minutes together last week). Woodcock and Mealamu should be in there aswell, because of these selections i wont be going to eden park this weekend instead putting the money i would have paid to get in the gate on the crusaders by 13+

 

[steblin]

Cant believe Marshall isnt starting , sure he lacks in defense and the kicking game, but he makes up for it with creativity and flair, also has a good combination with Piri Weepu (although they only played 10 minutes together last week). Woodcock and Mealamu should be in there aswell, because of these selections i wont be going to eden park this weekend instead putting the money i would have paid to get in the gate on the crusaders by 13+

I thought, first home game, he'd start as well. Especially with the injury to Saili I thought he might be bold and go:
15 - Marshall
14 - Halai
13 - Piutau
12 - Willison
11 - Moala / Li

 

[goodNumber10]

Marshall should be playing 12.

'Saders are going to run a train on the Blues, it could get really messy.

Glad Daggs been dropped but i still think they got problems in the midfield, Crotty & Lee-Lo doesn't work for me... i reckon we'll see Caretr playing 12 a bit this seaosn (if he ever makes an apperance that is)

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

My ideal Crusaders backline would be Dagg, McNicholl, Crotty, Taylor, Nadolo, Slade, Ellis with Heinz, Lee-Lo and Guildford on the bench.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Simon Hickey looked good from what I saw of him in the ITM, he must be a step up from Noakes???

saili huge loss cant see anything but a Crusaders win.

 

[Darwin]

Marshall should be playing 12.

'Saders are going to run a train on the Blues, it could get really messy.

Glad Daggs been dropped but i still think they got problems in the midfield, Crotty & Lee-Lo doesn't work for me... i reckon we'll see Caretr playing 12 a bit this seaosn (if he ever makes an apperance that is)

Can't say I can see Marshall as a 12. He has never been the best on defense, I think he will find this aspect of rugby difficult at 10 let alone 12! A key attribute of modern day 12's is the ability to take the ball into contact if required, again something that Marshall does not excel at. For me I think his best position will be 10, I just think it will take some time for him to adjust to the different demands of Rugby Union.

I agree the Crusaders midfield lacks a bit of creativity, but Lee-Lo and Crotty were two of the best players for the Crusaders against the Chiefs. I think eventually Tom Taylor & Ryan Crotty will form the Crusaders midfield with Slade or Bleyendaal starting at 10 (or Carter when he eventually returns).

My ideal Crusaders backline would be Dagg, McNicholl, Crotty, Taylor, Nadolo, Slade, Ellis with Heinz, Lee-Lo and Guildford on the bench.

I agree with that backline, with the exception of the left wing position. On form Guildford is a very good Super Rugby player, while Nadolo is completely unproven at this level. He couldn't even get a game for an Australian Super Rugby franchise in the years he was in Australia and was disappointing in his brief stints in France and England. It is all well and good to dominate the Japanese League, but I'm yet to be convinced he will be good enough for Super Rugby. At best I see him as an impact player from the bench, but I'm happy if he proves me wrong!

 

[ABs2011]

Cant believe Marshall isnt starting ,

Marshall should be playing 12.

Here is my take on all those people calling for Benji to start. I simply think that either 1) people are forgetting the guy does NOT know how to play rugby yet, or, 2) they are just so depressed about the state of the Blues team that they would do anything in the search for any kind of improvement.
I agree with the points Darwin made re Benji at 12, but would simplify it by saying Benji is simply not ready to play 10 or 12 for the Blues. Also, think about it from Blues managements perspective. They have put together a package of roughly $1million dollars to get Benji. Imagine if they start the guy and for him to be a complete bust (which he likely would be should he start at 10 or 12) how do they then go about justifying that spend? They'd all look like complete Muppets.

i wont be going to eden park this weekend instead putting the money i would have paid to get in the gate on the crusaders by 13+

Better get in quick – odds dropping like a stone. Since I posted yesterday Crusaders haves shortened to -5.5 point favs (from -3.5) and the 13+ line has come in from $3.25 to $2.75, will only come in more IMHO.

As for Piutau (guy is incredible!) I read somewhere last week that Kirwin is thinking about him at both centre and first five this year.

Any chance you could clarify that? I'd be very interested if this were true. I havent heard JK say this, but I might have missed it. I would be surprised if it were the case. If you are correct though, boy does it wreak of desperation. It says to me that the Blues may well have concluded that the million $ man who was touted as being the Blues savior at 10 may not be up to it and they are going to have to reshuffle one of the world's best outside backs in a few positions to accommodate/justify Benji at 15….

Time will tell….

 

[donmcdazzle]

The funniest comment of all came from Benji himself. Last week when he wasn't starting he said he was going to go to JK and tell him he wasn't ready anyway.. who the hell says that?! If JK offered me the 10 jersey for saturdays game I would take it right now without even having a training run. Just smacks of entitlement and putting himself first, any other player would never ever consider going to tell the coach they didn't feel up to starting. You would just get on with the job, they should be itching to start. I think he is isn't as good as he thought he would be and now doesn't want to get exposed as the average rugby player he is.

Blues fans, would you rather have Marshall or Ihaia West in your squad? I know who I would rather have, for about 1/10th the money too.

 

[steblin]

Here is my take on all those people calling for Benji to start. I simply think that either 1) people are forgetting the guy does NOT know how to play rugby yet, or, 2) they are just so depressed about the state of the Blues team that they would do anything in the search for any kind of improvement.
I agree with the points Darwin made re Benji at 12, but would simplify it by saying Benji is simply not ready to play 10 or 12 for the Blues. Also, think about it from Blues managements perspective. They have put together a package of roughly $1million dollars to get Benji. Imagine if they start the guy and for him to be a complete bust (which he likely would be should he start at 10 or 12) how do they then go about justifying that spend? They’d all look like complete Muppets.

Better get in quick â€" odds dropping like a stone. Since I posted yesterday Crusaders haves shortened to -5.5 point favs (from -3.5) and the 13+ line has come in from $3.25 to $2.75, will only come in more IMHO.

Any chance you could clarify that? I’d be very interested if this were true. I havent heard JK say this, but I might have missed it. I would be surprised if it were the case. If you are correct though, boy does it wreak of desperation. It says to me that the Blues may well have concluded that the million $ man who was touted as being the Blues savior at 10 may not be up to it and they are going to have to reshuffle one of the world’s best outside backs in a few positions to accommodate/justify Benji at 15….

Time will tell….

I'm positive I heard JK mention it in a TV interview, however a quick Google and not finding anything to back it up ... so maybe I imagined it. Althought while googling it I did find a statement from Piutau about the move to centre which JK has said 'will happen' this year

"I guess I'm open to it. It's something new and I guess I don't know how I'll feel until I try it out," says Piutau.
Read more: http://www.3news.co.nz/Shift-to-cen...5/articleID/333608/Default.aspx#ixzz2uSufmlPv

Doesn't sound massivley enthused does he

Agree 100% about Benji, fans are desperate for an answer at 10. But he's not ready and I don't think he'll ever be the answer at 10. I think he will become a very good Union fullback / utility back, but not a world class first five.

 

[FlukeArtist]

You guys should tell the TAB (they have the Crusaders as only 3.5 point favourites). Better yet you should head down there, you could get better than 2 to 1 and only have to win by 13. Money in the bank...right??

Bloody hell! thanks for that I WILL put some $ on that!

I do have to say, I am feeling a little more positive today.
Pleased to see Simon Hickey being given a go... this is a step in the right direction - giving homegrown talent a shot (liek every other province does)

 

[Larksea]

Benji has a lot to learn but he can learn a heck of a lot more on the park than he can on the bench. hes a smart guy, he can learn from watching and training but he can only put that knowledge to use and try things when hes playing proper.

 

[ABs2011]

Benji has a lot to learn but he can learn a heck of a lot more on the park than he can on the bench. hes a smart guy, he can learn from watching and training but he can only put that knowledge to use and try things when hes playing proper.

I agree 100%. So the question that should be being asked by Blues fans is "why the heck wasn't he playing ITM cup?"

The Blues won't start him at 10 until he is at least good enough not to make a fool out of himself, the Blues management, and hence putting a massive question mark on the decision to fork out $1m on him.

I personally think we will see him starting at 15 sometime this year (hence why the Blues management has had to start talking about playing one of NZ's best fullbacks at 13), unless of course the Blues season becomes a complete disaster and they have nothing to lose!

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Wasn't he still playing NRL during the ITM Cup? That's what I assumed...

 

[ABs2011]

I'm positive I heard JK mention it in a TV interview, however a quick Google and not finding anything to back it up ... so maybe I imagined it. Althought while googling it I did find a statement from Piutau about the move to centre which JK has said 'will happen' this year

"I guess I'm open to it. It's something new and I guess I don't know how I'll feel until I try it out," says Piutau.
Read more: http://www.3news.co.nz/Shift-to-cen...5/articleID/333608/Default.aspx#ixzz2uSufmlPv

Doesn't sound massivley enthused does he

Agree 100% about Benji, fans are desperate for an answer at 10. But he's not ready and I don't think he'll ever be the answer at 10. I think he will become a very good Union fullback / utility back, but not a world class first five.

Cheers. You may well be right, but it would seem a stretch IMHO. Once Kerr is back I think the Blues backline will function a lot better. Piutau at 13 would probably work over time, but he is such a great outside back and has a pretty firm grip in the ABs in that area that I don't like the sound of shifting him in. Reminds me of when they shifted Cullen in to 13!

I also just don't get it. The Blues (without injury) have a very good backline. Weepu, Kerr, Nonu, Saiili, Halia, Moala, and Piutau. The only reason you would consider shifting Piutau in, for anything other than a stop gap measure to cover for injury, is because you feel like you have to find a place for your "million dollar man". BUT if your million dollar man isn't good enough to command a starting spot then leave him out I say.

 

[ABs2011]

Wasn't he still playing NRL during the ITM Cup? That's what I assumed...

Yeah you are correct to an extent. But Benji signed on to Union well before the end of the NRL season. Tigers last game was on Sep 4th. He could have played the majority of ITM cup i.e he could have potentially come off the bench from round 5 or so. He would have learnt al lot in those 7 weeks or so.

It was never clear why he did not. I guess he thought the rest would be more beneficial for him than learning the game, which I can only assume he was thought he could sufficiently in pre season Blues training and games. JK must have wanted Benji to play ITM cup, so Benji must have had it written into his contact before he signed. That is my conclusion anyway. If not the Blues management have a lot to answer for!

 

[Patchey]

If Marshall had gone straight from the NRL into the ITM, and then been expected to do a full pre-season with the Blues, he'd probably be injured or at least fatigued by now. Certainly I think jumping straight into the ITM from the NRL would have been a disaster, both physically but also for his confidence. He's got to learn a new game and while I agree you need a lot of game time for that throwing him into the ITM ASAP would have resulted in little more than some very bad performances and a lot of self doubt IMO.