[2014 Mid-Year Tests] England

[goodNumber10]

let me get this straight.... lancaster, and the other england coaches only picked tomkin because stuart barnes hyped him up?

ridiculous, we could say the same thing about any player - cipriani for instance .

he was there because of injury to Tuilagi and on merit like everyone else. he's better than average for sarries - as i said go watch the aussie game again, or the try he creates for sarries against bath earlier this year.

 

[McTallshort]

Sorry good number 10 he is shat at international level.

 

[goodNumber10]

fair enough, he's three caps deep, and against RC opposition and no one else - i'm not sure we've really seen him at international level.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

let me get this straight.... lancaster, and the other england coaches only picked tomkin because stuart barnes hyped him up?

Certainly helped, as did the club he played for.
He wasn't at international level when he was capped, it was clear for the world to see.

 

[TheSaffycen]

I'm not gonna lie but when he gets back from injury he will have a hard time getting into the Saracens team. Bosch, Wyles and even Streather have performed better than he has. His main strength was meant to be his offloading game, and as people have said most of the time they just land on the floor or in the oppositions hands, but one in every six will go to a Saracens player and Barnes and co. will start fapping wildly over it. He isn't international standard and I would say that Tuilagi, Burrell, Trinder, Joseph, Daly, Barritt at 13 !, are all ahead of him.

 

[Patchey]

Tompkins is basically Tom May Mk2. A competent Premiership centre who can look half decent in the context of a good team. Probably deserved a couple of caps to see if he had any chance of making it as an international but that's it.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Jesus, did Tom May sh*t in your shoes this morning?
May is way above Tomkins level, think he's a vastly underrated operator.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

that doesn't mean he didn't do good things.

He tackled well, and he made some ok yardage. He got a lot of man and ball - and not in space. Lets be fair here, England didn't exactly set the world alight in the AI's did they? He wasn't the only person who couldnt' get into the flow of the game. and there are other guys who made far bigger errors than him yet we all purr about them on here.

Look, just so you lot can understand, i'm not trying to convince you all he should be a starter for England or anything, but i think it's a little unfair to portray him as some useless lump - he's been consistently good for Saracens, when fit, and given a consistent run without injury he'll be pushing for selection again.

Which proves my point; if he couldn't do the basics well like keep hold of the ball when in attack, then all the other "good" things are just going to be missed. If England want a centre who just tackles well, then they'll go back to Barritt; they don't need another centre who is only good at tackling, especially at 13. Tomkims just did not offer anything in attack during the AI or even suggested he could offer anything in attack.

Although 36 had a bit of shocker v Australia in defence, the fact he has a more all rounded game means that the England selectors were more willing to persevere with him, despite the errors he made. Now that Tuilagi, Trinder( who was not fit during the AIs) Joseph and Barritt are now fit, it is unlikely Tomkins will get a look in. Well, I hope he doesn't.

 

[goodNumber10]

Which proves my point; if he couldn't do the basics well like keep hold of the ball when in attack, then all the other "good" things are just going to be missed. If England want a centre who just tackles well, then they'll go back to Barritt; they don't need another centre who is only good at tackling, especially at 13. Tomkims just did not offer anything in attack during the AI or even suggested he could offer anything in attack.

Although 36 had a bit of shocker v Australia in defence, the fact he has a more all rounded game means that the England selectors were more willing to persevere with him, despite the errors he made. Now that Tuilagi, Trinder( who was not fit during the AIs) Joseph and Barritt are now fit, it is unlikely Tomkins will get a look in. Well, I hope he doesn't.

It doesn't prove anything, other than he couldn't hold a ball around his knees and that making a debut against one of the top 3 teams in the world isn't exactly easy - 3 caps against the RC teams, not an easy way to step into international rugby.

Your point about 36 is completely irrelevant, Tomkins wasn't dropped from the England squad so how would you know if the selectors would "perservere" with him?

But yeah, whatever it's just opinions isn't it.... he will be in and around the England squad again if he stays in union..

 

[Peat]

But yeah, whatever it's just opinions isn't it.... he will be in and around the England squad again if he stays in union..

Here's hoping he doesn't then.

I accept he was put into a difficult situation but he distinguished himself in no way. Not in his defensive positioning, not in his handling, not in his physicality or athleticism. I have never seen anything from him suggesting the sort of exceptional characteristics that separates internationals from good Premiership players.

 

[ratsapprentice]

I accept he was put into a difficult situation but he distinguished himself in no way. Not in his defensive positioning, not in his handling, not in his physicality or athleticism. I have never seen anything from him suggesting the sort of exceptional characteristics that separates internationals from good Premiership players.

Very well put... exactly how I feel.

 

[goodNumber10]

Here's hoping he doesn't then.

I accept he was put into a difficult situation but he distinguished himself in no way. Not in his defensive positioning, not in his handling, not in his physicality or athleticism. I have never seen anything from him suggesting the sort of exceptional characteristics that separates internationals from good Premiership players.

Fair enough.

I disagree. He nailed folau and was industrious in defence. Against NZ he made some ok carries but for the most part the ball he got was gash.

 

[Patchey]

Jesus, did Tom May sh*t in your shoes this morning?
May is way above Tomkins level, think he's a vastly underrated operator.

Yeah he did, *******.

I just was never convinced by him, although to be fair I paid a lot less attention to club rugby bck she he was in his prime.


TorLly agree with Pear on Tompkins.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

It doesn't prove anything, other than he couldn't hold a ball around his knees and that making a debut against one of the top 3 teams in the world isn't exactly easy - 3 caps against the RC teams, not an easy way to step into international rugby.

Your point about 36 is completely irrelevant, Tomkins wasn't dropped from the England squad so how would you know if the selectors would "perservere" with him?

But yeah, whatever it's just opinions isn't it.... he will be in and around the England squad again if he stays in union..

Well he hasn't been picked again, has he and not even mentioned since the AIs? Hence selectors are not interested in picking him again, even in a shadow squad for the 1st test v NZ.

And mentioning 36 is not irrelevant, as you said in your post that Tomkins wasn't the only one who could not get into the flow of the AI games; 36 also struggled, but has been picked again since those games. Anyway, as I said, England have enough options at 13 now, not to consider Tomkins again.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Watching the saints game Burrell should start @ 12 IMO for the second test.

 

[goodNumber10]

He got injured in the AB game, missed the six nations came back POST 6nations got injured and has had back surgery.

So if by not getting picked you mean been injured yes he's not been picked.

Hence your 36 point IS completely redundant because Tomkin's hasn't been dropped while others persist.

 

[Tmartin995]

Any news on the Farrell injury from the final? Or was it just cramp?

 

[Patchey]

Farrell is fine I believe, just a tweek.

Not sure about Billy, who looked pretty shagged when he was taken off. Planet Rugby is reporting that Mako is going to have surgery this week, apparently he dislocated his knee in the HCup final but still played this weekend, which is some great player management there!


Also, regarding Tompkins:

http://youtu.be/I8hx91HqDvE

and

http://youtu.be/zA9aPhvZmj0

 

[goodNumber10]

Planet Rugby is reporting that Mako is going to have surgery this week, apparently he dislocated his knee in the HCup final but still played this weekend, which is some great player management there!

Mako didn't play yesterday.

Also, regarding Tompkins:

http://youtu.be/I8hx91HqDvE

and

http://youtu.be/zA9aPhvZmj0

on the first clip he's falling over, when he takes and gives the pass - it happens.

On the seocond OMG he got handed off in the oppositions half by a monster - he should never play rugby again. 36 got flattened by Toomua in the same game no one is questioning his defence yet it cost England a try.

How about this from the same game?

http://youtu.be/9a8WF76xYt8?t=1m50s :

and

http://youtu.be/xdqRIaL3aUE?t=14m37s (watch him after he chases down Folau, he gets up gets back in the line and makes a hit off the ruck line)

Or look at this tracking line and finish:

http://youtu.be/WUA_1BWdfx4?t=1m17s

and finishes another:

http://youtu.be/lhDxQpeajbA?t=2m42s

Carry and offload in first move of this:

http://youtu.be/ghuN7bclN2w

Footwork, fend and offload against Bath:

http://youtu.be/v0T9LIeMgjc?t=59s



anyway... i may have taken this too far

 

[Maverick1987]

Mako didn't play yesterday.





on the first clip he's falling over, when he takes and gives the pass - it happens.

On the seocond OMG he got handed off in the oppositions half by a monster - he should never play rugby again. 36 got flattened by Toomua in the same game no one is questioning his defence yet it cost England a try.

How about this from the same game?

http://youtu.be/9a8WF76xYt8?t=1m50s :

and

http://youtu.be/xdqRIaL3aUE?t=14m37s (watch him after he chases down Folau, he gets up gets back in the line and makes a hit off the ruck line)

Or look at this tracking line and finish:

http://youtu.be/WUA_1BWdfx4?t=1m17s

and finishes another:

http://youtu.be/lhDxQpeajbA?t=2m42s

Carry and offload in first move of this:

http://youtu.be/ghuN7bclN2w

Footwork, fend and offload against Bath:

http://youtu.be/v0T9LIeMgjc?t=59s



anyway... i may have taken this too far

You can post a thousand videos of Joel Tompkins parting the Red Sea but here on the rugby forum we will still say he's a useless bugger lol