[2014 Mid-Year Tests] England

[Mumbles119]

Might be of interest to some.

Thanks for this Rats, really interesting. Obviously we all know what stats can and can't mean.

But, looking at the greater number of tackles (even taking game minutes into account) that Kvesic has made. This would suggest that he is not being used used to his advertised skillset, and having to be the Dan Lydiate for Glos.

Still big fan of Robshaw too.

Would love to see a Yarde/Roko combo for the first test too. Went to the Army/Navy game, and even watching from the gods it was obvious the class that Roko has

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Even stats-wise Ashton pales in comparison to the others.


ALSO if Johnny May can play like he did for Gloucester, last round, for England then that'd be grand.
Needs to back himself/his speed more in the white shirt - I think if the same situation had occurred for his first try, but against Italy or something, he wouldn't have gone 90m and scored.

 

[goodNumber10]

yeah, still not a fan of May, and he's not going to get into the team over Yarde.

Ashton to be fair is playing well right now in a way that stats don't show, can that translate to England? i dunno.

Roko is the man for me.... ooh, er!

 

[ratsapprentice]

Ashton to be fair is playing well right now in a way that stats don't show, can that translate to England? i dunno.

Aside from the Clermont game - is he, though?

Those stats are solely from the premiership BTW.

 

[Patchey]

Might be of interest to some.

The Kvesic v Robshaw stats highlight the different ways they are used quite well, and the respective playing styles of their clubs. Its not surprise to me that Robshaw has passed, offloaded and carried more because Quins use him as a link between and forwards and backs and the club standard off passing and offloading is probably the best in the league anyway (if I say so myself). Similarly, Kvesic playing behind a faltering pack has obviously had to make more tackles, although I don't think thats because he is a much better tackler but rather he's spend more time defending.

The turnovers and DB stats are of more interest IMO. Kind of renforce in my mind the idea Robshaw is really a 6, but lets not open up that can of worms!

As for the wingers, kind of renforces what most of us already think. Yarde, Roko and Watson all make big yards, beat defenders and are fairly solid defensively. Ashton isn't In fact Ashton has more game time than Yarde or Roko yet has made half as many meters, carried significantly less and beaten half as many defenders. How can this be so? Because Ashton's try scoring 'form' has largely been a result of the guys inside him doing the work, either by making the initial breaks or drawing in defenders, then him simply running the ball in on the overlap created. Aside from the Clermont game, where he did play very well, he does nothing the other three can't do better.

Even stats-wise Ashton pales in comparison to the others.


ALSO if Johnny May can play like he did for Gloucester, last round, for England then that'd be grand.
Needs to back himself/his speed more in the white shirt - I think if the same situation had occurred for his first try, but against Italy or something, he wouldn't have gone 90m and scored.

Exactly what I thought, he put the hammer down and backed himself to not even need to step/run sideways/kick. Really good to see.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Got some time to kill so am adding a couple more guys.
LMK if there is anyone in particular you want to see compared.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

The Kvesic v Robshaw stats highlight the different ways they are used quite well, and the respective playing styles of their clubs. Its not surprise to me that Robshaw has passed, offloaded and carried more because Quins use him as a link between and forwards and backs and the club standard off passing and offloading is probably the best in the league anyway (if I say so myself). Similarly, Kvesic playing behind a faltering pack has obviously had to make more tackles, although I don't think thats because he is a much better tackler but rather he's spend more time defending.

The turnovers and DB stats are of more interest IMO. Kind of renforce in my mind the idea Robshaw is really a 6, but lets not open up that can of worms!

Unless I'm reading this wrong robshaw only has 1 less turnover but played a third less minutes making him a better fetcher 7 than kvesic?

 

[goodNumber10]

Aside from the Clermont game - is he, though?

Those stats are solely from the premiership BTW.

yeah i got that.

RE: Ashton. I think so, but i can only go on what i've watched. His strike rate in HCup has been good, and in the Premiership he's been industrious at worst.

I don't think he's been any worse than the other right wings currently available, though i still think Roko is the best of the lot.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Not necessarily - it might be, but it's certainly not definitive.

I'd suggest it's more a symptom of the form/style of Quins and Glos, respectively.
As you can see Kvesic has basically had to focus on making tackles - as such he's probably more tentative about going in for a steal because of the hole it will create in their already leaky defence.
That and the fact that because the Glos defence has been **** he's very rarely not on the back foot.

Turnovers won isn't necessarily at the breakdown either - it could be ripping the ball in a tackle, for example.

 

[Patchey]

Unless I'm reading this wrong robshaw only has 1 less turnover but played a third less minutes making him a better fetcher 7 than kvesic?

Yup I read that wrong, my bad! Although Rats still makes a good point.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Where are you getting the stats from?
I thought ESPN, but they don't have turnovers conceded?

 

[goodNumber10]

Rats, is Watsons stats not slightly skewed by the fact he's played a lot at 15? (IIRC that is)

Are they all right wing stats?

 

[ratsapprentice]

Where are you getting the stats from?
I thought ESPN, but they don't have turnovers conceded?

Premiership rugby's own website.

The "turnovers" stat on ESPN is turnovers conceded, not turnovers won.

Rats, is Watsons stats not slightly skewed by the fact he's played a lot at 15? (IIRC that is)

Are they all right wing stats?

Yes thy are skewed by his position shifts.

Yarde has played on both the right and left and Roko and Ashton are pure right wingers.

 

[goodNumber10]

Premiership rugby's own website.

The "turnovers" stat on ESPN is turnovers conceded, not turnovers won.




Yes thy are skewed by his position shifts.

Yarde has played on both the right and left and Roko and Ashton are pure right wingers.

still interesting.

PLus Yarde has also been out injured for a chunk as well.

 

[ratsapprentice]

That's what the 80 minute averages (2nd line) are for...

 

[goodNumber10]

Premiership rugby's own website.

http://www.premiershiprugby.com/ ???

I can't seem to make the stats drill down to that kind of detail.

 

[goodNumber10]

That's what the 80 minute averages (2nd line) are for...

ah, yes... got it.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Premiership rugby's own website.

The "turnovers" stat on ESPN is turnovers conceded, not turnovers won.

Are you sure?
It can't see it say that on the site, just says "turn overs", which I'd take to mean as turnovers made.

 

[TheSaffycen]

I don't know if I am reading these right so the second row (Ashton as an example) 4.76 means carries per game right ? So the second row is per game ? Also with Ashton he plays in a team which doesn't have the ball all that much and doesn't run into traffic, so he isn't going to beat defenders- as other people have said he is there to finish off moves, he doesn't do the hard stuff. Even though he has more passes, offloads and assist. The stats to me show how good Yarde is though, an absolute animal on the wing.

Also a Tuilagi - Burrell comparison would be interesting


EDIT just seen the comment about averages thanks Rat

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I'm dubious of the prem rugby stats, having just looked.
They've got Seymour down as only 4 turnovers all season, but for the vast majority (about all but 4) it's got us as making 0 turnovers all game - dunno if they don't have stats from some, or haven't uploaded or whatever.