[2014 Mid-Year Tests] England

[McTallshort]

9.Care
10.Cipraini

....could work

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Maybe Tom Croft on the wing if we are running low on them.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

9.Care
10.Cipraini

....could work

If they both play as they have done this season then it's a stupidly good halfback partnership.
Get Tuilagi/Burrell/whoever running the kind of lines that Cueto has ran off of him and it'll be try city.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

It's nice that pretty much any setup England will realistically put out looks capable of scoring tries for a change.

 

[Aedaphon]

9.Care
10.Cipraini

....could work

And definitely an option for the first test.

They laughed when I said Cipriani could come back... Time for a Steffon recall?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

And definitely an option for the first test.

They laughed when I said Cipriani could come back... Time for a Steffon recall?

Cipriani will only play if his captain is playing too.

 

[Patchey]

Not to be a spoilsport but isn't Braid currently captaining Sale on match days?

(Yes, he's just been injured though)

 

[TheSaffycen]

Cipriani will only play if his captain is playing too.

ohhhh..... I really wanted him to play though

 

[goodNumber10]

even if Cipriani gets recalled he won't make the test team.

He's a lovely footballer, but he is not an international 10 (imho). He should have stayed as a fullback.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Why isn't he an international 10?

 

[goodNumber10]

well obviously this is subjective but in my opinion:

His Defence is poor - of course you have to balance it out, but i don't think his attacking ability outweighs his defensive shortcomings.
His Game Management is poor (he's got a huge boot but his tactical kicking in my opinion isn't great).

He is a lovely passer of the ball, and great with ball in hand but i personally don't think he's an international 10.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

well obviously this is subjective but in my opinion:

His Defence is poor - of course you have to balance it out, but i don't think his attacking ability outweighs his defensive shortcomings.
His Game Management is poor (he's got a huge boot but his tactical kicking in my opinion isn't great).

He is a lovely passer of the ball, and great with ball in hand but i personally don't think he's an international 10.

Yeah but the third fly half slot could be filled by myler who is a lot less of an international 10 than cipriani.

So we have Farrell and ford.
Burns out of form, myler so average and then cipriani who is full of talent. I agree his defence is poor but I don't really know about his game management. I haven't thought about that before.

 

[goodNumber10]

yeah, i was just thinking as i wrote it, is cipriani really our third best 10?

I dunno, he's never going to be THE first choice, so i'd be inclined to either take someone like Slade for development purposes or go old boy like hodgson on the off chance Ford and Farrell get croked pre-test.

 

[ratsapprentice]

I like the Opta tweets.

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8.4 - @bathrugby's Anthony Watson has the best average gain per carry rate (8.4m) of anyone to make 50+ carries in @premrugby. Discovery.
â€" OptaJonny (@OptaJonny) April 30, 2014​

<script async="" src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

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30 - Top @premrugby pts scorer, @George_Fordy (@bathrugby) has beaten more defenders (30) than any other fly-half this season. Discovery.
â€" OptaJonny (@OptaJonny) April 30, 2014​

<script async="" src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script><iframe style="display: none;" allowtransparency="true" id="rufous-sandbox" frameborder="0" scrolling="no"></iframe>

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Christ, we have one week off from the premiership and everyone forgets how Danny has been one of the most consistent flyhalves in the prem this season (certainly more so than Ford), has one of the highest tackle completion rates, and is controlling games as well as any.
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Why would you take Slade over Cipriani?
Danny is 26 so will easily make 2019, if you're worried about that - he's far more developed as a player than Slade yet has more potential as well.<script async="" src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script><iframe id="rufous-sandbox" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" style="display: none;"></iframe><iframe id="rufous-sandbox" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" style="display: none;"></iframe>

 

[ratsapprentice]

I can't see the controversy in having him along as the third choice.

 

[Patchey]

well obviously this is subjective but in my opinion:

His Defence is poor - of course you have to balance it out, but i don't think his attacking ability outweighs his defensive shortcomings.
His Game Management is poor (he's got a huge boot but his tactical kicking in my opinion isn't great).

He is a lovely passer of the ball, and great with ball in hand but i personally don't think he's an international 10.

Don't think I can agree with either of those first two statements. His defence may not be Farrell-esque but, as Olly noted, he has one of the higher tackle completion rates of any Premiership 10. His tackling was an issue last season and 'poor defense' seems to have become a tag he carries around despite the reality of the situation. I also don't think you can describe his game management as poor either. He knows when to pass and when to kick and indeed Sale have score some brilliant tries out wide this season thanks largely to his ability to spot space behind the opposition defense and his conviction to back his boot and put the ball in space for his wingers to run onto. I would certainly have him over Myler as our third choice.

As a slight aside, I think that an individual player's defensive frailties are less of an issue in the current England set up because of the way we organise our defense. Burrell would be an example of this.

 

[goodNumber10]

Tackle completion is a fine stat to bandy about, but you also have to consider how effective those tackles are at stopping the opposition gaining momentum, and also where is he doing the tackles? Is it front line as a 10 or cover tackles and so on.

I disagree on the game management, Sale do score some glorious trys and i don't think his ability to spot an opportunity is in doubt, but i'm still unconvinced that he knows how to play the territory game as effectivley as other players.

As i said it's subjective and these are the impressions i get.

I like Slade I think he has the potential to develop a better all round game and will benefit from the tour.

We have two 10's picked on form - Farrell and Ford, why not take a development player?

 

[ratsapprentice]

England forwards coach Graham Rowntree, who had a scrum session with Sinckler on Tuesday, recently revealed they could look at youngsters.

"Graham told me I was playing well and that I had to keep going one game at a time," he added.
"Of course I want to play for England but I've only started seven games. I try not to get carried away. I just want to keep working hard to better myself and earn a reputation."
"You can't look too far ahead as a tighthead. You can have a great scrum and the next you're getting pumped and go back five yards."
Since his Richmond days, Sinckler stood apart with the rampaging runs and ball handling skills Nick Easter would be proud of. However, he knows his scrummaging will take him to next level not his barn-storming runs.
"I concentrate a lot on my set-piece and the breakdown and if I get my hands on the ball then it's a plus. My all handling skills set me apart but let's not get away from the fact that a tighthead's main job is to scrummage. That's what I'm here for."

http://www.therugbypaper.co.uk/late...ckler-is-making-case-for-englands-tightheads/

:yess:

 

[TRF_Olyy]

We have two 10's picked on form - Farrell and Ford, why not take a development player?

Considering the age of ford and farrell, why take a development player?
Take the next best option which is easily Cipriani.
Also Ford has like 15mins of test rugby under his belt so he's basically a devlopment player.

You vastly under estimate Danny's control as well. He's a far more rounded ten than he was at Wasps, Rebels and even is last season. His kicking game has been excellent, and for all the talk of Ford's control/kicking, Cipriani has outplayed him both times they've met this year. (That's not meant as a slight against Ford).