[2014 Mid-Year Tests] England

[goodNumber10]

I think you're the first person I've seen to question his attacking prowess.

Piutau is pretty impressive, and I concede he is probably capable of that too.
It's funny you should mention Piutau though, because there is an interview somewhere (can't find it at the minute) where he endorses Wade as an England player.

He's shown over the last two years that he is clearly the most potent English individual try scorer - teams are just as scared of him as they are Manu.
I'm not saying his game will definitely transfer to the international level as easily as Manu's does, but the potential is there.

Fair comments mate. Can't really argue.

At the end of the day we all have mental images of what we want from a player in that position. Wade is very effective and I hope we see him step up and prove me wrong.

All this competition is good for the game in England.

 

[goodNumber10]

Something I noticed when fishing out that Piutau video is that he played for Tonga? That can't be right can it?

 

[ratsapprentice]

Played for Tonga u20's I think - whichever team it was, it didn't tie him. I think his brother is a Tonga international.

 

[Peat]

Played for Tonga u20's I think - whichever team it was, it didn't tie him. I think his brother is a Tonga international.

Given that the NZ U20s very rarely pick players a year young, a lot of Kiwis go off and play for Samoa U20s or Tonga U20s for a year then go with the NZ call up if it materializes next year.

 

[ratsapprentice]

On a somewhat unrelated note - has anyone else noticed the steady increase in black or mixed-race guys in the age grades?

An indicator of the upsurge in popularity/awareness of the sport in urban areas post 2003?
Or just a result of better racial equality in wider society (based on a lot of the guys coming from private/grammar schools)?

 

[Peat]

On a somewhat unrelated note - has anyone else noticed the steady increase in black or mixed-race guys in the age grades?

An indicator of the upsurge in popularity/awareness of the sport in urban areas post 2003?
Or just a result of better racial equality in wider society (based on a lot of the guys coming from private/grammar schools)?

More likely, although complicated by the fact that such schools do bring in athletically talented youngsters from poor socio-economic backgrounds on scholarships.

That said, I have noticed signs of more popularity in non-rugby areas simply through playing - Southwark Lancers have really kicked on simply in my time of playing against them.

 

[McTallshort]

On a somewhat unrelated note - has anyone else noticed the steady increase in black or mixed-race guys in the age grades?

An indicator of the upsurge in popularity/awareness of the sport in urban areas post 2003?
Or just a result of better racial equality in wider society (based on a lot of the guys coming from private/grammar schools)?

One of the toughest schools in Nottingham a few years ago got a mention in the local paper because they had done so well in a rugby tournament due to the efforts of a their PE teacher and they had a visit from an RFU representative.........Jason Leonard. All good stuff

 

[Patchey]

I do.

I accept that, ultimately, his size may count against him - but he's a phenomenal player.

England U18's vs Portugal:



Some big lads in there!

The RFU had, on its preview to the England 18s vs Wales 18s game, an interview with the age grade forwards coach. In it he uttered the world, 'there guys are already built like Premiership tightheads, we just need to work on their conditioning and game awareness'. At first I though he was exaggerating massively and then I looked at the people he was talking about...

Obviously its good that age grade guys are in good shape S&C wise, should make a step up to professional senior rugby easier. But it does seem to show the way rugby is going. I doubt we're the only country with age grade guys like this.

 

[ratsapprentice]

We do have the biggest age grade guys by a distance - it's boys against men sometimes.

But it does seem to show the way rugby is going.

As it should do... it's a professional sport.

 

[Mumbles119]

Before this becomes another MASS debate, and Ewis gets very excited. A change of topic...

With the coming tour in mind and new/younger/less experienced players maybe getting chances. I have been thinking what a RWC 2015 team would look like. So maybe we can highlight which new/younger/inexperienced players absolutely need to be involved and not miss out this chance?

This is based on my fickle preference for form, perceived talent and plain old personal bias. With an attempt at some objective thinking to a balanced overall squad. Please feel free to disagree, challenge, suggest changes, provide your own etc...

15. Mike Brown
14. Christian Wade
13. Luther Burrell/Manu Tuilagi
12. Kyle Eastmond
11. Marland Yarde
10. Owen Farrell
9. Danny Care
1. Joe Marler
2. Dylan Hartley
3. Dave Wilson
4. Courtney Lawes
5. Dave Attwood
6. Joe Launchbury
7. Chris Robshaw
8. Billy Vunipola

16. Tom Youngs
17. Mako Vunipola
18. Dan Cole
19. Ben Morgan
20. James Haskell
21. Lee Dickson
22. George Ford
23. Anthony Watson

As much as I want Corbisiero there. I am not convinced his re-occurring knee issues will allow it. If he does make it, then brilliant!

Predicting possible England form between Ford and Farrell is difficult, but seeing Farrell improve with a distributor like Twelvetrees outside him has been great. I think Eastmond could even further enhance this.

It would be great to see Cole return to previous years form of strong scrummaging and key turnovers. But Wilson is definitely making an impact, especially some of his loose play.

The question of Tuilagi or Burrell is a glaring point in my squad. But there is no reason we can't have differently set up back line squads for different types of desired game plans. Personal preference is the potential combo of Eastmond and Burrell to make sure a terrifying talented back three are utilised as much as possible. Then change to a Twevetrees-Tuilagi combo to rampage through opposition.

Other players I am still torn over deciding to include across a wider squad:

Matt Kvesic
Will Fraser
Kyle Sinckler
Jamie George
Semesa Rokoduguni
Jack Nowell
Elliot Daly
Jonny May
Sam Dickinson
Billy Twelvetrees
Danny Cipriani
Ben Foden
Dan Robson
Joe Simpson

And others...!

 

[Patchey]

We do have the biggest age grade guys by a distance - it's boys against men sometimes.



As it should do... it's a professional sport.

Totally agree, was more of an observation than a criticism to be honest.




As tot he squad, I would really hope that this summer is a chance for us to bring in a young scum half, Robson or Simpson are the prime candidates. We can't have Danny Care staying in form being as integral to our attacking game is it is now. Dickson is an okay replacement for him but i'd much rather have Robson or Simpson step up and be our bench nine.

 

[TheSaffycen]

I just wanted to add onto the Wade debate. I think he will be great at intl' level, he has pace and agility but more importantly he has great awareness and knows how to finish. The Argentina clip with twelvetrees showed this, he didn't dive for the line and try to break two defenders he made a great delayed pass to the guy coming round the corner. If England are serious about winning the world cup then we have to have players like Wade, Eastmond and yarde playing for us. Also why can't Burns play like he did in the ARG tour again?

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I will say this Wade could, could be in danger of becoming another Varndell (doesn't get injury that often but when he does it generally at the worse times in terms of chances).

Mumbles Cole will be out for the tour at quite rightly imo he needs a big rest.

The key will be who is in the finals.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Ben Youngs is playing well for Tigers again - it's just a shame he an't carry it over to the international stage, though this won't stop the press crying out for him to be our starting 9 again.

 

[Patchey]

Ben Youngs is playing well for Tigers again - it's just a shame he an't carry it over to the international stage, though this won't stop the press crying out for him to be our starting 9 again.

I'm sick of Ben Youngs failing to do much of use for England. I've never really liked him as a player so that obviously biases me but I can't see what he can be expected to bring to the England team.

Good thing Care plays for a team who wont make the final (sigh).

 

[goodNumber10]

on the Wade discussion, i would like to see him move to the left wing I think he'd be better there - with a right wing i'm (personally) looking for almost a 3rd Centre type player.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Ben Youngs is playing well for Tigers again - it's just a shame he an't carry it over to the international stage, though this won't stop the press crying out for him to be our starting 9 again.

Apart from against Australia, haven't seen him have a bad game against Australia yet.

 

[goodNumber10]

I'm sick of Ben Youngs failing to do much of use for England. I've never really liked him as a player so that obviously biases me but I can't see what he can be expected to bring to the England team.

Good thing Care plays for a team who wont make the final (sigh).

Still think people are being a bit harsh on Youngs. He's been involved in a couple of good moments for England, and lets not forget the england pack he was playing behind were not exactly hitting their straps. Cares had a reasonable armchair ride this year, and there have been occasions when his pack wasn't so dominant that he went missing.

I really just don't like Dickson as an international 9. it's the one position where i'm really unhappy with our current depth.

 

[ratsapprentice]

A agree about Youngs, I really don't have any confidence in him whatsoever.
The best you can hope for is that he manages to make 2-3 big breaks - outside of that... nothing.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I reckon in a season or two Robson at glous will be number 2/3.

I agree Youngs form is not great for England but I do prefer him to Dickson at international.