[2013 TRC] New Zealand vs South Africa in Auckland (14/09/2013)

[Big Ewis]

^ oh, goodie....ANOTHER haka video..

Yes, Australia made SA look good, Englnd has made SA look good, Argentina, Samoa and Italy has made SA look good. What is up with all these supposedly good teams that they had made SA look good over the last year!!

well it's just true about Australia, the Aussie defense was lazy at best on some of those tries. SA weren't even going strong, they just easily found gaps, I remember one try particularly...
And you MUST admit Samoa and Argentina didn't play nearly a characteristic game against SA. SA isn't THAT good to drop 10 tries on both. And Italy just totally missed their match, totally out of rhythm, and were subjected to the Saffa game quite early into the game, and were pretty bad that whole quadrangular, they didn't bring their 6N form (they had against France or in Twick).

Of course, props to SA for beating all those teams convincingly, but you must see how the SAM and ARG matches were just very unrepresentative. I mean the Argies the following week almost win at home against that same side that put 70 on them. And I seriously don't know wtf happened to Samoa that day, I think they lost their bloodlust early in the game, similarly to the Lions game. Pac. Islanders are either hungry as beasts, or totally lose interest in a game if they feel overwhelmed early.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Yes, Australia made SA look good, Englnd has made SA look good, Argentina, Samoa and Italy has made SA look good. What is up with all these supposedly good teams that they had made SA look good over the last year!!

No, no, We made them look bad!!

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

No, no, We made them look bad!!

That was pretty much my implication if it wasn't clear enough.

 

[SomeOke]

Really excited for the game!
To be fair though I think SA has whipped itself into a bit of a frenzy and it's a bit premature. NZ has definitely got the edge on us and considering we are playing in Eden Park I'll be happy if we lose by 7ish points, and try to take our chances at Newlands (although I would probably prefer a High-veld venue ).
Other than that everything that needs to be said has been said, it really comes down to if we can smother their pack to such a degree that their back line becomes a non-factor, as they definitely have the edge there (sorry Hein, Ben Smith is probably the form back line player of the year, Willie has potential but he's not quite at that level). Our pack might be better but I don't think it's good enough to completely play NZ off the ball.

 

[Big Ewis]

That was pretty much my implication if it wasn't clear enough.

very little is ever clear for poor little heineken... : (

 

[Big Ewis]

I mean look at some of those highlights. I'd forgotten just how lazy Samoa had looked that day...
South Africa are the 2nd best team and have a chance to become 1st, no criticism to SA, SA is a formidable foe once again this year in 2013, no question. I'm not even a SA hater or anything.

But look at this:



Moments like the slow-mo replay at: 4:44. A joke.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Really excited for the game!
To be fair though I think SA has whipped itself into a bit of a frenzy and it's a bit premature. NZ has definitely got the edge on us and considering we are playing in Eden Park I'll be happy if we lose by 7ish points, and try to take our chances at Newlands (although I would probably prefer a High-veld venue ).
Other than that everything that needs to be said has been said, it really comes down to if we can smother their pack to such a degree that their back line becomes a non-factor, as they definitely have the edge there (sorry Hein, Ben Smith is probably the form back line player of the year, Willie has potential but he's not quite at that level). Our pack might be better but I don't think it's good enough to completely play NZ off the ball.

We are playing NZ at Ellis Park.

We play the Aussies at Newlands...

 

[Da Grappla]

Really excited for the game!
To be fair though I think SA has whipped itself into a bit of a frenzy and it's a bit premature. NZ has definitely got the edge on us and considering we are playing in Eden Park I'll be happy if we lose by 7ish points, and try to take our chances at Newlands (although I would probably prefer a High-veld venue ).
Other than that everything that needs to be said has been said, it really comes down to if we can smother their pack to such a degree that their back line becomes a non-factor, as they definitely have the edge there (sorry Hein, Ben Smith is probably the form back line player of the year, Willie has potential but he's not quite at that level). Our pack might be better but I don't think it's good enough to completely play NZ off the ball.

Well...you know how it is said; forwards decide who team wins and backs just decide by how many points.

Heineken wrote down an accurate rating of both squad players.

NZ=state of the art backs, good pack
SA=good backline, state of the art pack.


I refused to admit for many years that Spies was less than an asset for SA...being the super athlete he indeed is, it seems he doesn't have blood runnin through his veins.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Really excited for the game!
To be fair though I think SA has whipped itself into a bit of a frenzy and it's a bit premature. NZ has definitely got the edge on us and considering we are playing in Eden Park I'll be happy if we lose by 7ish points, and try to take our chances at Newlands (although I would probably prefer a High-veld venue ).
Other than that everything that needs to be said has been said, it really comes down to if we can smother their pack to such a degree that their back line becomes a non-factor, as they definitely have the edge there (sorry Hein, Ben Smith is probably the form back line player of the year, Willie has potential but he's not quite at that level). Our pack might be better but I don't think it's good enough to completely play NZ off the ball.

Boo! Coming here with your reasonable expectations and all. I think everyone KONWS that but it's nice to speculate and build it up a bit. It keeps me out of mischief. I do agree though that everyone in SA is putting Le Roux on a bit of a pedestal which can't be good for the player IMO. He brings some refreshing enterprise to our back line but is a tad error prone and we've seen that though I wouldn't drop him because I feel he makes up for it more than enough. I think though that people are happy for the improvements and the fact that we do in fact have a realistic expectation of being capable of winning in Eden Park even if we are certain underdogs. Poite though puts a dint in my optimism a bit though I do think he does not favor the home team as much as some other higher profile refs...

We are playing NZ at Ellis Park.

We play the Aussies at Newlands...

Thank you for not having me do a quick search. I thought something was fishy there.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Boo! Coming here with your reasonable expectations and all. I think everyone KONWS that but it's nice to speculate and build it up a bit. It keeps me out of mischief. I do agree though that everyone in SA is putting Le Roux on a bit of a pedestal which can't be good for the player IMO. He brings some refreshing enterprise to our back line but is a tad error prone and we've seen that though I wouldn't drop him because I feel he makes up for it more than enough. I think though that people are happy for the improvements and the fact that we do in fact have a realistic expectation of being capable of winning in Eden Park even if we are certain underdogs. Poite though puts a dint in my optimism a bit though I do think he does not favor the home team as much as some other higher profile refs...

What's wrong with putting Willie on a pedestal? If NZ and I can do it to Ben Smith, then I can do it with Willie too. The thing is HM, and most of the team are humble guys, and wouldn't necessarily let it go to their heads, and JDV week in saying, that they need to improve is evidence of exactly that they don't see themselves on a pedestal and that they really are still the underdogs.

I am building up this game, because for a very long time I have the Belief that we can beat the All Blacks in their own backyard. I didn't had that belief in 2009 when Ricky Januarie won it for us, (in fact I never had much belief when PDV was our coach). I know there is a big IF in us actually winning, but keeping the faith is what the bokke need.

I don't like you doom prophets!!

Thank you for not having me do a quick search. I thought something was fishy there.

You're welcome

 

[Larksea]

well i picked it, or its how i hoped it would be

Messam to start and two loose forwards on the bench, luatua to cover a lock injury, also barrett on the bench even though I thought Cruden would have been recovered by now. Barrett has been really impressive off the bench so no reason to bring Cruden back unless hes 100


NEW ZEALAND: Israel Dagg, Ben Smith, Conrad Smith, Ma'a Nonu, Julian Savea, Daniel Carter, Aaron Smith, Kieran Read (c), Sam Cane, Liam Messam, Sam Whitelock, Brodie Retallick, Owen Franks, Dane Coles, Tony Woodcock.
Reserves: Keven Mealamu, Wyatt Crockett, Charlie Faumuina, Steven Luatua, Matt Todd, Tawera Kerr-Barlow, Beauden Barrett, Charles Piutau.

 

[TRF_heineken]

well i picked it, or its how i hoped it would be

Messam to start and two loose forwards on the bench, luatua to cover a lock injury, also barrett on the bench even though I thought Cruden would have been recovered by now. Barrett has been really impressive off the bench so no reason to bring Cruden back unless hes 100


NEW ZEALAND: Israel Dagg, Ben Smith, Conrad Smith, Ma'a Nonu, Julian Savea, Daniel Carter, Aaron Smith, Kieran Read (c), Sam Cane, Liam Messam, Sam Whitelock, Brodie Retallick, Owen Franks, Dane Coles, Tony Woodcock.
Reserves: Keven Mealamu, Wyatt Crockett, Charlie Faumuina, Steven Luatua, Matt Todd, Tawera Kerr-Barlow, Beauden Barrett, Charles Piutau.

Is Hore injured??

I think Bismarck will be very excited to take on the rookie Coles.

Messam surely will be a bit rusty, I caught a bit of Reunion and Ian Jones who seems to keep on looking for which camera is focused on him, said that Messam hasn't had any rugby in the last 5 weeks...

 

[ABs2011]

NEW ZEALAND: Israel Dagg, Ben Smith, Conrad Smith, Ma'a Nonu, Julian Savea, Daniel Carter, Aaron Smith, Kieran Read (c), Sam Cane, Liam Messam, Sam Whitelock, Brodie Retallick, Owen Franks, Dane Coles, Tony Woodcock.
Reserves: Keven Mealamu, Wyatt Crockett, Charlie Faumuina, Steven Luatua, Matt Todd, Tawera Kerr-Barlow, Beauden Barrett, Charles Piutau.

No place for Saili on the bench, Nonu starts, and Hore out all together.

I like the team. Glad to see Messam and Nonu back in there. It will be very interesting to see how Cane and Todd go up against arguably the AB's toughest competition. Huge game and I am bloody nervous. My pick is we see DC and Read stepping up big time for this fixture.

 

[ABs2011]

Is Hore injured??

I think Bismarck will be very excited to take on the rookie Coles.

Messam surely will be a bit rusty, I caught a bit of Reunion and Ian Jones who seems to keep on looking for which camera is focused on him, said that Messam hasn't had any rugby in the last 5 weeks...

Yup that worries me too, but add to that a second of the loose forward trio in Sam Cane, hasnt played that much Rugby of late either, and it could be quite a rusty element of the ABs game.

 

[Larksea]

yeah as i said in my previous post I thought Hore was going to be an important ingredient in this game, i also think hore is way ahead of Mealamu.

only thing I can think if is that maybe Coles lineout throwing is better right now, Lineouts are going to be critical. in recent times Springbok wins have generally come from poor performing All Black Lineouts.

 

[ABs2011]

So just to recap on the 5 changes to the ABs team. The reality is that 4 of the 5 were on the cards, the main talking point is Coles starting.

Coles - Really this appears to be a risk reward of Coles superior lineout skills (apparently he is much more accurate these days than Kev and Hore) vs a bit of an unknown as to how he will go in the scrums against the Big Bok front row. In saying that, as it stands Coles is the future for the ABs at hooker and if he hadnt got injured last year I think he would've started much more. Will be an interesting player to watch this weekend.

Messam for Luatua - just heard Hansen say the clincher was that if Messam were to come off the bench and re-injure himself they wouldnt be able to bring Luatua back on - hence they want to start him. My feeling is this is a bit of a cop out in case Messam is a bit rusty. I think they always wanted to go with Messam for this fixture. More experience, arguably a bit more physicality in tight. On top of that Luatua provides locking cover so no need for Thrush who IMO is not great. Luatua could arguably do with a bit of a break, so a bench start after three starts in a row is probably smart.

Nonu for Saili - No brainer for me. Despite what people say Nonu has a more all-round skill set than Saili, not to mention the international experience and familiarity with the squad. Hopefully Saili develops overtime, but for all the big games Nonu will start at this stage and is easily still #1.

Franks back from injury .

Cane in for injured McCaw, Todd onto the bench.

 

[Da Grappla]

yeah as i said in my previous post I thought Hore was going to be an important ingredient in this game, i also think hore is way ahead of Mealamu.

only thing I can think if is that maybe Coles lineout throwing is better right now, Lineouts are going to be critical. in recent times Springbok wins have generally come from poor performing All Black Lineouts.

VM&BB are not on the Bokke team anymore...I wouldn't be worried too much for lineouts. They will be contested...just it.

 

[ABs2011]

VM&BB are not on the Bokke team anymore...I wouldn't be worried too much for lineouts. They will be contested...just it.

Certainly the SA lineout is not as formidable as it once was, however the concern about the AB lineout is not so much about the opposition, rather how well it is opperating regardless. Both Hore and Mealamu have been concerns in that respect. Coles is considered to have markedly improved and now clearly rates ahead of the others.

 

[BasqueBete]

Don't knock Ian jones


The man is a broadcast legend...

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

What's wrong with putting Willie on a pedestal? If NZ and I can do it to Ben Smith, then I can do it with Willie too. The thing is HM, and most of the team are humble guys, and wouldn't necessarily let it go to their heads, and JDV week in saying, that they need to improve is evidence of exactly that they don't see themselves on a pedestal and that they really are still the underdogs.

I am building up this game, because for a very long time I have the Belief that we can beat the All Blacks in their own backyard. I didn't had that belief in 2009 when Ricky Januarie won it for us, (in fact I never had much belief when PDV was our coach). I know there is a big IF in us actually winning, but keeping the faith is what the bokke need.

I don't like you doom prophets!!





You're welcome

What!? Me, a doomsayer.. have you read therough some of my posts on here? I just said we do put Willie on a pedestal which is true but I never said people couldn't or shouldn't
, well at least not around a braai but the media should be careful of not overhyping players but I think HM is lightyears ahead of PdV ITO keeping players grounded and managing expectations.