[2013 TRC] New Zealand vs South Africa in Auckland (14/09/2013)

[Draggs]

In 2011 some of NZ's top players were rested when the All Blacks travelled to South Africa. McCaw and Carter were two of those players (with Thomson and Slade starting instead). South Africa won 18-5. Prior to that? Probably back before Carter and McCaw were regular starters...

There was a bit of the going on in 2011. Remember Divs injured list?

Duane Vermeulen (knee), Fourie du Preez (knee), Schalk Burger (thumb), Victor Matfield (calf and neck), Frans Steyn (ankle and back), Jaque Fourie (groin), Jean de Villiers (groin), BJ Botha (knee), Juan Smith (Achilles), Willem Alberts (shoulder), Bismarck du Plessis (shoulder), Andries Bekker (shoulder, groin and ankle), Jannie du Plessis (knee), Francois Louw (clavicle), Gurthrö Steenkamp (forearm), Francois Hougaard (ankle), Butch James (knee), JP Pietersen (back), Tendai Mtawarira (hamstring), Bryan Habana (shoulder), Bakkies Botha (knee)

http://www.keo.co.za/2011/07/06/injury-sweeps-through-bok-camp/

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

There was a bit of the going on in 2011. Remember Divs injured list?

Duane Vermeulen (knee), Fourie du Preez (knee), Schalk Burger (thumb), Victor Matfield (calf and neck), Frans Steyn (ankle and back), Jaque Fourie (groin), Jean de Villiers (groin), BJ Botha (knee), Juan Smith (Achilles), Willem Alberts (shoulder), Bismarck du Plessis (shoulder), Andries Bekker (shoulder, groin and ankle), Jannie du Plessis (knee), Francois Louw (clavicle), Gurthrö Steenkamp (forearm), Francois Hougaard (ankle), Butch James (knee), JP Pietersen (back), Tendai Mtawarira (hamstring), Bryan Habana (shoulder), Bakkies Botha (knee)

http://www.keo.co.za/2011/07/06/injury-sweeps-through-bok-camp/

That's right! All those 'injuries' At least NZ were up front about resting their players.

Prior to that 2011 match, the last time neither McCaw nor Carter played was in 2004 (Holah/Newby and Mehrtens/Evans were playing instead), where South Africa won 40-26 at Ellis Park - the location of the next match between NZ and SA! Of course it's likely that McCaw will be available for the match (and starting), but it's a fun fact nevertheless. The only players in that match day 22 that still play for NZ are Mealamu and Hore.

 

[Shaggy]

I mention Butch, as he has had numerous yellows against him for stupid play in test rugby, and is on the same habitual level as Nonu.

Bismarck has played 52 tests. He was a substitute in 22 of those tests, and started 30 of them. I can't find any stats about how many yellows and red cards he has recieved at test level, but I would be surprized if it is more than 5 cards.

So that is why I question your argument here. Bismarck, although he's a physical player, he's hardly a thug, and always play within the rules. He's the type of guy that will punish himself for letting down the team. He doesn't "attract many yellow cards" as you put it. And I'm sure many NZ'ers would even agree with me that comparing Nonu to Bismarck is not a fair comparison.

I'm also having trouble locating stats on Yellow cards, but did find reference to Bismarck's card for eye gouging on Adam Thomson, and a similar card to his second one in this match, at Currie cup level ... I never said, or implied that he was a thug, so I don't see that you need to provide a character reference for him ... a player could be constantly being Yellow carded for constantly slowing the ball down in rucks, and my point would still be relevant

I could well be wrong about the number of yellow cards/frequency that he gets them, but if I am, I'm certainly don't think I'm the only one with this perception ... Bismarck and Ma'a both rank in the top 4 for most Yellow cards on this ranker site, for the rugby championship

http://www.ranker.com/list/most-yellow-cards-in-the-rugby-championship-/greenandgoldrugby

So, I still think it's a fair comparison ... like I said, I'm more than happy to admit when I'm wrong, I'd be interested to see the career yellow cards in ALL professional matches, for both players/more players (if anyone knows where to get these stats)

 

[Draggs]

I'm also having trouble locating stats on Yellow cards, but did find reference to Bismarck's card for eye gouging on Adam Thomson, and a similar card to his second one in this match, at Currie cup level ... I never said, or implied that he was a thug, so I don't see that you need to provide a character reference for him ... a player could be constantly being Yellow carded for constantly slowing the ball down in rucks, and my point would still be relevant

I could well be wrong about the number of yellow cards/frequency that he gets them, but if I am, I'm certainly don't think I'm the only one with this perception ... Bismarck and Ma'a both rank in the top 4 for most Yellow cards on this ranker site, for the rugby championship

http://www.ranker.com/list/most-yellow-cards-in-the-rugby-championship-/greenandgoldrugby

So, I still think it's a fair comparison ... like I said, I'm more than happy to admit when I'm wrong, I'd be interested to see the career yellow cards in ALL professional matches, for both players/more players (if anyone knows where to get these stats)

Itsrugby.fr listed one previous card for Bismarck in TRC/3N.
He was never carded for the Thomson incident, which was found to be 'careless'. Three week ban.

Furthermore, that list is only rankings by people, no card stats whatsoever.

 

[nickdnz]

That's right! All those 'injuries' At least NZ were up front about resting their players.

Prior to that 2011 match, the last time neither McCaw nor Carter played was in 2004 (Holah/Newby and Mehrtens/Evans were playing instead), where South Africa won 40-26 at Ellis Park - the location of the next match between NZ and SA! Of course it's likely that McCaw will be available for the match (and starting), but it's a fun fact nevertheless. The only players in that match day 22 that still play for NZ are Mealamu and Hore.

Fun fact but not correct - the 2009 series against France and Italy we had neither McCaw or Carter - instead we had Adam Thomson/Latimer and Stephen Donald/McAlister. Later in 2009 we played Italy with Delaney/Stephen Donald and Latimer. Those matches are just from memory - there are probably one or two others.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Fun fact but not correct - the 2009 series against France and Italy we had neither McCaw or Carter - instead we had Adam Thomson/Latimer and Stephen Donald/McAlister. Later in 2009 we played Italy with Delaney/Stephen Donald and Latimer. Those matches are just from memory - there are probably one or two others.

We're talking about RC/Tri Nations matches, Nick.

 

[nickdnz]

We're talking about RC/Tri Nations matches, Nick.

Oh were we? Didn't see that.

Last time I contradict anyone ever, just get egg on my face. I'm going for a walk and try to forget this ever happened.

 

[Superalexmarket]

Excellent analysis of the 3 tries of New Zealand (Jannie Du Plessis involved in every play with serious defensive flaws)

http://espndeportes.espn.go.com/vid...?id=1902812&categoryid=834482&cc=7586

 

[Big Ewis]

Excellent analysis of the 3 tries of New Zealand (Jannie Du Plessis involved in every play with serious defensive flaws)

http://espndeportes.espn.go.com/vid...?id=1902812&categoryid=834482&cc=7586

lol, si pero no hablo la lengua !

 

[Superalexmarket]

Ohh Come on!! Just watch the video, and you'll see.

 

[jessta]

tanerua latimer in line for a recall as matt todds injured and mccaws in doubt... good on him, great player

 

[nickdnz]

tanerua latimer in line for a recall as matt todds injured and mccaws in doubt... good on him, great player

Ridiculious that he gets a call over Luke Braid IMO.

 

[hjklhjkl]

Ridiculious that he gets a call over Luke Braid IMO.

I would agree (i'm a big fan of braid) but i'm pretty sure he has an ankle injury.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

I would agree (i'm a big fan of braid) but i'm pretty sure he has an ankle injury.

Yep, Braid is injured. Latimer is the only real option. Another year and it might be Savea.

 

[smartcooky]

Excellent analysis of the 3 tries of New Zealand (Jannie Du Plessis involved in every play with serious defensive flaws)

http://espndeportes.espn.go.com/vid...?id=1902812&categoryid=834482&cc=7586

That looks like an excellent piece of analysis. Pity there isn't an English dubbed/subtitled version; I can't speak Spanish!

 

[William18]

Ridiculious that he gets a call over Luke Braid IMO.

Not IMO. Latimer was the best 7 this year for the Chiefs. Rennie generally always picked Latimer (correct me if I'm wrong) for the big tough, physical clashes against South African sides.

 

[nickdnz]

Not IMO. Latimer was the best 7 this year for the Chiefs. Rennie generally always picked Latimer (correct me if I'm wrong) for the big tough, physical clashes against South African sides.

He was the best 7 this year for the Chiefs in the sense that he was one of two sevens and started the most games. Regardless I don't think he made much of an impact and would have preferred Cane to start more. Braid has for the last few seasons been the Blues best forward. Inspirational in many games. Latimer isn't a terrible player by any means - I just don't think he's anything more than a good super rugby player - where as I think Braid is considerably better and could still have a future as part of the All Blacks.

 

[dasNdanger]

Off topic - going back a few pages for this...

Surely one of them was Mexted!

Finally dug out the VHS with this game on it. Not Mexted, but Clark and Kearns, during a Super 12 match between Waratahs and the Hurricanes at Aussie Stadium, not sure the year. It went like this:

Greg Clark: "The rolling maul...you said it before, Kearnsey, the crowd loves it. It's the sexiest part of rugby, isn't it?"

Phil Kearns: "Oh, yes it is. Look at all those sweaty, smelly big blokes in there."

It's my favorite commentator quote of all time. (Pretty sure it was Clark and not Greg Martin in that exchange - all three were talking and my tape is old and the sound not so good - Kearns has such a distinct voice that he's easy to pick out, but the other two are too close to tell. I think it was Clark, though, because he was the main commentator.)

Now - back to your regularly scheduled discussion!


das