[2013 TRC] Argentina vs. New Zealand in La Plata (28/09/2013)

[smartcooky]

Looks like the Springboks have a lot to do next week, then. When was the last time the All Blacks even conceded four tries? The last time I can think of is Ireland way back in 2010 at New Plymouth (66-28).

Twickers last year?

Nope, that was three tries each

The last time the conceded four tries at all was in Hong Kong against Australia October 2010

The Last time they conceded four tries against South Africa was August 2004....... at Ellis Park

Remember, South Africa have to score four tires, AND stop the All Blacks from getting any kind of bonus point. If they open the game up and take risks to try to score the tries, they will risk leaking tries as well. If the AB's score four tries or stay within the seven point margin, then its all over rover even if the Saffas do win with a four try bonus.

 

[Zapphod]

Looks like the Springboks have a lot to do next week, then. When was the last time the All Blacks even conceded four tries? The last time I can think of is Ireland way back in 2010 at New Plymouth (66-28).

The AB's still have two get out of jail free cards if they can finish within seven points or score four tries themselves.
A South African win in this competition would require the All Blacks to play badly in my opinion however I do expect South Africa to win the game.

 

[LittleGuy]

The AB's still have two get out of jail free cards if they can finish within seven points or score four tries themselves.
A South African win in this competition would require the All Blacks to play badly in my opinion however I do expect South Africa to win the game.

Before that bonus try that was what I was expecting but now I have no idea...it really depends how South Africa approach this next match will they just simply try to win the game? Or are they really going for the ***le? They might even try a sort of hybrid approach much like the Eagles did against us(Canada) in August, try and win the series in the first 20-20 minutes and when/if that looks impossible merely try and win the game. As smartcooky says if the Boks try and play loose, counterattacking oppourtunities could present themselves and the AB's might find themselves running rampant.

Other game next week looks intruiging as well, though so did last years and it ended up being one of the worst of the year, both teams ahve had good moments but haven't strung together a quality 80 minutes.

 

[tenpm]

I still want an All Blacks win next week though. I'd obviously be gutted if SA wins the Championship but it would be almost as disappointing to celebrate a close loss.

 

[nickdnz]

In case anyone missed it: BEN SMITH!!!!!

Annnd, the prodigal son son returns

 

[Zapphod]

Before that bonus try that was what I was expecting but now I have no idea...it really depends how South Africa approach this next match will they just simply try to win the game? Or are they really going for the ***le? They might even try a sort of hybrid approach much like the Eagles did against us(Canada) in August, try and win the series in the first 20-20 minutes and when/if that looks impossible merely try and win the game. As smartcooky says if the Boks try and play loose, counterattacking oppourtunities could present themselves and the AB's might find themselves running rampant.

Other game next week looks intruiging as well, though so did last years and it ended up being one of the worst of the year, both teams ahve had good moments but haven't strung together a quality 80 minutes.

I expect that the Boks will try the same tactics they used in the last game and out muscle the AB's early on to put them off their game because quite honestly I don't think they have much else in this situation after all 10000000 penalties may win them the game but it wont win them the series, my greatest worry from a Kiwi point of view is that the AB's will go on the defensive and just try and prevent the Boks getting a bonus point and that will cost us.

On the whole I expect it to be a rather torrid match, South Africa running out the winners with a 25-18 sort of scoreline. Now obviously that is just a hunch but in all honesty I think South Africa have played the more consistent rugby in this series where as the All Blacks have played extremely well in bursts but looked rather ordinary at times as well.

 

[Darwin]

DARWIN!
Welcome back!!!

Out of nowhere I appear. Like Ben Smith.

A few quick thoughts on the game.

- As much as I hate to see the All Blacks scrum go backwards (as it did at a rapid rate for the first 30-odd mins) it is great to see the dominant scrum rewarded. I still think the new scrum laws needs some tweaking, but I do think they are a step in the right direction. The AB's started to dominate in the last 20-30 mins, but it was hard to tell whether this was due to Figallo and Guinazu leaving, or the injection of Faumuina and Mealamu. I wonder whether Faumuina did enough to push for a starting spot next week? I still rate Owen Franks a lot higher, but Faumuina was far more effective this week not only at scrum time but with the ball in hand. I do whether Franks was carrying an injury?

- Mealamu made a good impact when he came on with ball in hand. I have been very disappointed with his form this season, but that was a perhaps a sign he is not completely over the hill yet.

- Sam Cane was immense for a second week in a row. There have been a lot of people questioning whether he should be McCaw's deputy, but there should be no questions after these last two weeks - he just looks to be made for test rugby. He was incredibly powerful with ball in hand, and did his job in defense (though didn't have anywhere near as tackling to do this week). There is a big difference in the way Super Rugby and Test rugby are played - it just appears Cane's style of play is better suited to the international stage....

- Messam had a good solid game. I was really enjoying the fact he was running straight and hard for a change (rather than sideways....)

- Aaron Smith was poor (for a change - he has generally been outstanding for the AB's this season). He was generally over-kicking his box-kicks (something he hasn't been doing near as much for the AB's this season), he threw a couple of very wild passes, and got caught behind the breakdown a couple of times. As poor as Smith was Kerr-Barlow was even worse when he came on. His service was slow (and messy), and he managed to get himself penalized twice in a the 15 minutes he was on the field. I love the pressure Kerr-Barlow can exert on the opposition, I just think he still needs to get far more accurate if he is to excel at test level (which he is certainly capable of).

- Cruden had a pretty average game. He kicked the ball a bit too much (and his kicks weren't accurate), his goal-kicking was a bit off, and his jinking style wasn't effective against Argentina's defense pattern. Perhaps I'm being a bit hard on Cruden (as it is only his first game back from injury!) but I feel Barrett's style of running hard at the line from first receiver would have been more effective this match. I still think Cruden is a much better player than Barrett, but he will need to play much better next week against the Boks.

- Nonu and Conrad Smith combined well. Nonu's no-look pass for Ben Smith's first try was a thing of beauty.

- Dagg was quiet, but Ben Smith and Savea both had very strong games. Savea did make a couple of obvious errors under the high ball, and knocked on a try scoring chance, but he was incredibly powerful with ball in hand, making a couple of big breaks. Ben Smith was Ben Smith. He did some great work in the air under the high ball and scored a couple of brilliant tries. His best position is still fullback, but he is looking pretty handy on the wing at the moment

EDIT: how come whenever I post a couple of 'quick thoughts' I end up writing a novel. I need help.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

- Aaron Smith was poor (for a change - he has generally been outstanding for the AB's this season). He was generally over-kicking his box-kicks (something he hasn't been doing near as much for the AB's this season), he threw a couple of very wild passes, and got caught behind the breakdown a couple of times. As poor as Smith was Kerr-Barlow was even worse when he came on. His service was slow (and messy), and he managed to get himself penalized twice in a the 15 minutes he was on the field. I love the pressure Kerr-Barlow can exert on the opposition, I just think he still needs to get far more accurate if he is to excel at test level (which he is certainly capable of).

Kerr-Barlow just needs to focus on passing the ball out, and not trying to do too much. Interestingly I actually thought his passing was better than Smith's today, he just didn't do it enough

 

[nickdnz]

I agree Kerr-Barlow was pretty woeful. When it was him and Cruden on the field - it was like having a 9 and 10 trying to play touch rugby between the two of them - with no organized attack, just jinks at the line. Aaron Smith wasn't great either - made some shockers, but I still prefer him over Kerr-Barlow. Such a shame Peranara still hasn't got a test cap now that he's got injured - I think he'd do really well in a test like that.

 

[Sam Owen]

Ben Smith was the man. We've always known he has those elusive abillities and he demonstrated those nicely against the Pumas.

 

[Larksea]

I think once Perenara gets his chance we will see a lot of him in test rugby. Not a great game from Aaron Smith.

kinda tough on Cruden as hes just coming back from injury but Barrett is playing better than him right now. Barrett has looked so composed and hardly making any errors, making really good tactical decisions and actually defending bloody well.

Cane was fantastic again. Man that is good to see. Messam was solid as well, not a standout game bit he put some solid hits on and carried/cleaned well.

The scrum was a worry till Charlie came on and it became clear Franks had been carrying an injury.

Ben Smith was Ben Smith - Im pretty sure that is my line >
sure he got a good ball from nonu in that first try but how about that step???
that 2nd try was just Ben Smith Magic full stop.
some really good work in the air as well, chasing and disrupting. Really impressive finishing the game in the mid field.

very good test for Smith & Nonu both played very well.

Another good showing from Savea, some errors under the high ball but it was from really good pressure rather than mistakes.

Israel Dagg is starting to get overshadowed by Smith and Savea

Yip, ive been pulling Mealamu's chain a bit for a while because he has not been performing but he made some good impact when he came on, was busy and the lineout was good.

AB's in a really good grove right now, For them the Boks at Elis park is the biggest challenge in world rugby right now against a huge home ground advantage which will even things up a lot.

 

[LittleGuy]

I expect that the Boks will try the same tactics they used in the last game and out muscle the AB's early on to put them off their game because quite honestly I don't think they have much else in this situation after all 10000000 penalties may win them the game but it wont win them the series, my greatest worry from a Kiwi point of view is that the AB's will go on the defensive and just try and prevent the Boks getting a bonus point and that will cost us.

On the whole I expect it to be a rather torrid match, South Africa running out the winners with a 25-18 sort of scoreline. Now obviously that is just a hunch but in all honesty I think South Africa have played the more consistent rugby in this series where as the All Blacks have played extremely well in bursts but looked rather ordinary at times as well.

That's a pretty good analysis in my opinion I figure a BOk win would slao be in the 4-7 type margin, with maybe two tries for.

Edit: I shouldn't half drunk post for that kind of spelling.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Well done onn the bonus point. I was scared that the bonus point swing in Eden park would come back to haunt us and it has. That said we really have only ourselves to blame as we were good for a bonus point yesterday but critically took the foot off the pedal.. oh well, always next year.

 

[Zapphod]

That's a pretty good analysis in my opinion I figure a BOk win would slao be in the 4-7 type margin, with maybe two tries for.

Edit: I shouldn't half drunk post for that kind of spelling.

Hehe the analysis may be ok but the grammar is bloody awful. Even I had to read it three times to figure out what I was trying to say.

 

[Andronicus]

The All Blacks constantly demonstrate the ability to play at a high level and then turn the volume up further when they need it.

The Boks are a good side and may win in Joburg, largely because of superior goal kicking, Steyn is like a machine. But it is hard to see them doing enough to win the competition.

 

[ratsapprentice]

The main thing that I took from that match...?

Savea needs a haircut.

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Well done onn the bonus point. I was scared that the bonus point swing in Eden park would come back to haunt us and it has. That said we really have only ourselves to blame as we were good for a bonus point yesterday but critically took the foot off the pedal.. oh well, always next year.

It's possible to win 36-28 scoring 4 tries.

 

[Tony Manx]

I expect that the Boks will try the same tactics they used in the last game and out muscle the AB's early on to put them off their game because quite honestly I don't think they have much else in this situation after all 10000000 penalties may win them the game but it wont win them the series, my greatest worry from a Kiwi point of view is that the AB's will go on the defensive and just try and prevent the Boks getting a bonus point and that will cost us.

On the whole I expect it to be a rather torrid match, South Africa running out the winners with a 25-18 sort of scoreline. Now obviously that is just a hunch but in all honesty I think South Africa have played the more consistent rugby in this series where as the All Blacks have played extremely well in bursts but looked rather ordinary at times as well.

Sums up my views better than I could! I reckon that the Pumas could have beaten a lot of teams playing like they did last night but never the AB's.........they made too many mistakes for that and were pretty blunt in attack but they certainly put everything into it and then some. Aussie's look out.....I go for the first win to the Pumas............!!

 

[Aspry]

So I heard Cory Jane is out? Nvm, Ben Smith is on!

Congrats All Blacks, once again you showed who's the best team on earth. Savea is a ****ing beast, even when having a bad day he managed himself to make the difference once again. Seriously that guy is awesome, reminds me to Jonah Lomu.

Disappointing performance from the Pumas again, making tons of handling errors and bad decisions. I am getting myself worried since we're not showing any challenge.
We need two things right away:
- New coach with experience at international level.
- Super Rugby franchise. Unlike AB's, Boks and Wallabies, all of our players are spread in Europe and they don't get the chance to play with each other really often. The difference was abysmal between both teams. You easily notice that they play very coordinated.

PS: Saffas must hate us.

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Hate you guys? Nah. NZ deserve the championship and we lost it ourselves by not scoring a bonus point yesterday. We could've easily done it if we didn't relax to much in the second half. In stead, the players seemed content with 4 log points.