[2013 EOYT] England

[Ragey Erasmus]

Yeah, but England have a good record in Paris, so we're not worried.. If France are kryptonite to the ABs; England are France's kryptonite. I've followed England v France since 1991, and we must have won at least 70% of the encounters in the 5/6N, I think at one point France could not win for 7 straight years during the Will Carling years. Ahhhh, happy memories. Brian Moore always wound up the French row and there'd always be a mass punch up.:0).

Since 1991 we have won 15 games against France and lost 8 in the 5/6 nations so that's 65% won. Pretty accurate guess there.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Since 1991 we have won 15 games against France and lost 8 in the 5/6 nations so that's 65% won. Pretty accurate guess there.

Haha, that's great. Just checked wiki and the 7 straight years unbeaten was between 1989 and 1995 in the 5N. Right now we've got 3 straight in the 6N, so only 4 more years to equal that record, plus any meeting at the WC to avenge the 2011 QF defeat of course.

 

[Big Ewis]

Yeah, but England have a good record in Paris, so we're not worried.. If France are kryptonite to the ABs; England are France's kryptonite. I've followed England v France since 1991, and we must have won at least 70% of the encounters in the 5/6N, I think at one point France could not win for 7 straight years during the Will Carling years. Ahhhh, happy memories. Brian Moore always wound up the French row and there'd always be a mass punch up.:0).

I do know that stat of the 7 straight, but those were the good years for England in general. I'll have you know during the 70's and 80's decades France won 12, England 6 and 3 draws. That includes 5 straight and then 6 straight for France with a draw in both.
But it's true, since the pro era England has clearly had the upper hand. We've obviously been losing games we either should've won or should've kept closer in the score. The most recent example of that is the 2012 crunch. Servat said it himself "we were superior on paper, and at home, but lost...didn't get the rhythm we wanted and it never really came".
But you say you're not worried aye ? Alright then...we'll just have to wait and see. It will be England's first match of the year, but France look fairly established these days. We'll see >: )

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

My worry with regards to the six nations is that if Manu is out, Lancaster might be hesitant to blood a new 13 when your playing away in Paris on debut(!) - and this may mean another waltz for the hapless Joel Tomkins, who was poor with the ball in the autumn and got turned over most times he took it up against New Zealand. Arguably that sort of inability to retain possession following your own carry was a bit contributing factor to our loss. Arguably the same could be true of playing a new left winger in place of Ashton - the coaches might be loath to chuck Wade in against the French.

 

[Peat]

a) I think I heard that Tomkins is out for 3 months, so we can rule him out of that.

b) It'll be Twelvetrees and Barritt, with Barritt at 13, if both are fit and Manu is not. That is close to bet your mortgage material.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

It's not as if a new winger could do worse than Ashton. I say we take risks at all positions. We have got to stop perpetuating the catch 22 of players not being selected because they don't have experience. They will never get experience if we are never prepared to take a risk with them.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

It's not as if a new winger could do worse than Ashton. I say we take risks at all positions. We have got to stop perpetuating the catch 22 of players not being selected because they don't have experience. They will never get experience if we are never prepared to take a risk with them.

Heretical beliefs - England does not tolerate common sense!

I'd far prefer Barritt at 13 to Tomkins even though in normal circumstances it woudl seem a ludicrous option; I still can't get out of my head the image of Tomkins trying to tackle Folau by the face and being capsized like a donkey..

 

[Patchey]

a) I think I heard that Tomkins is out for 3 months, so we can rule him out of that.

b) It'll be Twelvetrees and Barritt, with Barritt at 13, if both are fit and Manu is not. That is close to bet your mortgage material.

Please no. Just no.

I love Barritt for his commitment and brute force in a tackle but if we have him at 13 we might as well put Steve Thompson on the wing, the ball will never get out wide so might as well let Wade/Yarde stay with their clubs for the Six Nations.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Please no. Just no.

so might as well let Wade/Yarde stay with their clubs for the Six Nations.

Why do you care Harlequins boy

It'd be worth having them just for better-counter attacking ball. I'd also like to see England create set piece moves which uses Yarde's strength off the wing as well as pace - see George North's try against Argentina for an example

 

[Patchey]

Good point, Bumble Bees shouldn't be allowed to have a player of Wades talent and Not Nots are wasting Yarde, keep em in camp!

Scoring of set moves? You must think we have competent backs!

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Oh yes, I keep forgetting our backs are pants. Never mind.

Actually this is one area where Mike Philips deserves a modicum of credit as a scrum half. He is able to feint and draw space for other backs as he did in that try

 

[St George]

Why do you care Harlequins boy

It'd be worth having them just for better-counter attacking ball. I'd also like to see England create set piece moves which uses Yarde's strength off the wing as well as pace - see George North's try against Argentina for an example

Now where did i put the insect spray?


IMO the Slam will be on again if, and only if, we get the types of selections in our Backs that most posters are advocating here.

 

[Peat]

Please no. Just no.

I love Barritt for his commitment and brute force in a tackle but if we have him at 13 we might as well put Steve Thompson on the wing, the ball will never get out wide so might as well let Wade/Yarde stay with their clubs for the Six Nations.

I'm not disagreeing, but given that this has been Lancaster's solution before, and how much he loves Barritt, this is basically happening. It probably beats Tomkins and keeps Twelvetrees or AN Other in the team so it could be worse.

As for what ragerancher said... I'd like us just to pick the best players. Not the younger guy who might develop, not the older guy who's got the caps, just get the best available side out. In fairness, Lancaster has done this, apart from a few aberrations of logic to what makes for the best player.

 

[ratsapprentice]

That's what people mean by playing "new" players though...
By and large the best guys in our problem positions are young.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I imagine we'll see Ashton vs France, and then Wade against Scotland which will inevitably be a dire game playing in the wind and rain, where our backs don't shine, and Lancaster will drop him for Ashton again - same for Burrell, as well.

I wouldn't ever pick Barritt at 13, unless it was between him and Tomkins for the shirt. He may not show much in an England shirt but he's showed a lot more than Tomkins did this series. Barritt isn't as selfish as many make out, as well - he's not attacking mastermind, but I'd wager our outside backs would see more ball with him at 13 than Tomkins getting pinged/turned over with every possession.

I hope that it would be Barritt shifted to 13, as well, and not Twelvetrees.

 

[g6mcg]

I think Barritt was at 13 when they played together this year, so I doubt he'd change it. Not that it makes it a much more inspiring selection!

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

That's what people mean by playing "new" players though...
By and large the best guys in our problem positions are young.

I think I see where we're going with this...

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I have a slight feeling we might see Burrell at 13, he played there for England in the summer.

He is better attacking player than Barrett, better ball carrier, passer, faster, everything is better apart from his defence. I hope when Lancaster gives him a chance it will be with 12trees rather than Burrell at 12 and Tompkins at 13.

 

[Peat]

That's what people mean by playing "new" players though...
By and large the best guys in our problem positions are young.

It may be what people mean, but its not what people end up saying.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Can people who have seen more of Burrell than I have comment on his long term talent as compared to Twelvetrees?