[2025 Six Nations] Scotland vs Ireland - 09/02/25

[retired9]

The hype is mostly media and non-rugby educated fans TBH. I would have said most of us on this forum who are backing the Scots were hopeful but not expectant of a result at best - there is nothing on recent evidence to suggest Scotland had the beating of Ireland yesterday. If we had beaten SA in the Autumn then that would be a tangible piece of evidence but not conclusive.

Recent times have had us get over the Twickenham hoodoo and a few wins over the French, and Welsh have boosted us to a confident 3/4th placed team give or take. The problem is the 2 reliable 1st/2nd placers are a big step up from where we are at the moment. 2nd place this tournament and the last one had to be Scotland's aim, we haven't got there yet.

There was more chance of us beating France than Ireland this year, and now with England on the up again third place will be a tough fight as well. Twickenham is never a gimme, sure a bit of banter about the CC is fun and the contests have actually been very good to watch. At the moment I would not say I feel confident of a win in 2 weeks, I am hoping for a hell of a response after this near drubbing though.

France should have been over the hill and out of site in the first 40, they weren't and England clung on like limpets before pouncing at the death. That is something to be very wary of next match.

Reality is Ireland have a massive machine behind the national team, a process and a pathway which is just bringing talent and ability through again and again. They also all have committed to a very difficult strategy to defend against, and the whole team are bought into it. It won't last forever, but Farrell has transformed them into a cohesive juggernaut of a rugby team, you have to be very very good to beat them and so far that's all that have beaten them.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I thought they were saying booo-urns personally.

 

[munstermuffin]

I've yet to see any hype that Scotland should be beating, or considered part of, the top 4
Granted, I may have missed the odd comment here or there, but the hype that's being claimed...

Oh check half the build up this week. They were talking. I think even some Irish press and players commented after it. Check out Pete's instagram

 

[munstermuffin]

I don't think this applies to this Scotland team to be honest. Townsend was quite docile before and after the game and accepted they were up against a better teams and that he hoped their improvements would be enough.

Improvements not being evident is their biggest worry, they had no answers for us coming out incredibly strong and building a buffer early. They were never going to win from more than two scores down and even more than one score was a big ask.

Scotland have wised up a bit in the media ever since Kinghorn said something along the lines of "we've figured Ireland out and will end their run" at the world cup. POM throwing it in their face was probably a wake up call that teams use this to motivate themselves and that they'd been poking bears for years.

I don't want to sound condescending but you look at the packs and benches yesterday and it's obvious Scotland shouldn't expect to beat us. Even where they're at their strongest, those players are at best marginally better than their opposite man in green. Neither side were at their best yesterday but a 14 point difference to the away side is a pretty accurate illustration of the gulf between the teams right now. You'd do well to find anyone to argue that and any hope they had was based on us playing more like we did in the autumn rather than last week.

I agree but like did we even play great yesterday. We are going very well but still have a few more gears.
But take Ireland out they haven't had any big wins if that makes sense. Like go back to Joe Schmidt -The start of the era.
Like even when building the blocks - We got a big win in South Africa. I think the England RWC team and same when they win a tour etc.

Like this South Africa team doesn't beat the big teams to be considered as highly as they are. I think they ride on the back of Glasgow being a very good and competitive franchise.

 

[IT157]

Had a chance to cool my jets a bit since yesterday, always seem to get a raised amount of anger vs Ireland

First off, fair dos to the men in green they were miles better than Scotland and clearly earned the win. They did what Ireland do, massive physicality and relentless breakdown battling. Prendergast looked decent tbf I can see him becoming a long term feature in all honesty.

For Scotland, well we got rattled by Ireland once again - same happened with SA, big aggressive teams throw us off balance early on. VDMs card was clumsy, the double injury a real blow (Darcy out in a superb tackle a few minutes before which was joyous) and we just didn't get much of the 50/50's from the ref - just not our day.

I did feel we had some positives, the second half started very well, Zander Fagerson, White, Darge, and Jones all mostly had decent a game. Tom Jordan took a big step up into the 10 slot, had a nervy start but showed some real ability which was impressive given the circumstances. Can see him as a 10 option in future, he's bigger than Finn and has a big pass on him.

The back row had a mixed game as a collective, Ireland are masters of fast then slow breakdown control and we just didn't get a proper handle on it - they have an canny knack (have done for years) of just getting in the way long enough to be a nuisance and avoid getting pinged for it. Better management of the referee from Scotland may have tidied this up, it's something Finn can usually do he is extremely intelligent and a wee smile helps the cause.

Kinghorn didn't have a great one, some OK runs through but the kicking and missed tackle on Lowe (?) wasn't his finest moment.

In summary, it pretty much justifies the world rankings - there are 3 teams in Ire, SA and France who are all in the mix at the top and are notably better than the next ones below them. For Scotland this needs to toughen us up, there is still plenty rugby to play this 6N.

4. New Zealand are in that tier.

 

[retired9]

4. New Zealand are in that tier.

True, especially in a WC. Have they found some strong form again?

 

[Lé Ddanno]

True, especially in a WC. Have they found some strong form again?

They seem to be improving but still very wobbly. The RC should be interesting

 

[IT157]

True, especially in a WC. Have they found some strong form again?

They beat Ireland in Ireland last year. Breaking a very long winning streak for Ireland at home.

Their demise has been greatly exaggerated. It is just that they are not head and shoulders above everyone else anymore, so people assume they are not very good. They are still elite. They are just on the same tier as South Africa, France, and Ireland now.

 

[BPM]

The hype is mostly media and non-rugby educated fans TBH. I would have said most of us on this forum who are backing the Scots were hopeful but not expectant of a result at best - there is nothing on recent evidence to suggest Scotland had the beating of Ireland yesterday. If we had beaten SA in the Autumn then that would be a tangible piece of evidence but not conclusive.

Recent times have had us get over the Twickenham hoodoo and a few wins over the French, and Welsh have boosted us to a confident 3/4th placed team give or take. The problem is the 2 reliable 1st/2nd placers are a big step up from where we are at the moment. 2nd place this tournament and the last one had to be Scotland's aim, we haven't got there yet.

There was more chance of us beating France than Ireland this year, and now with England on the up again third place will be a tough fight as well. Twickenham is never a gimme, sure a bit of banter about the CC is fun and the contests have actually been very good to watch. At the moment I would not say I feel confident of a win in 2 weeks, I am hoping for a hell of a response after this near drubbing though.

France should have been over the hill and out of site in the first 40, they weren't and England clung on like limpets before pouncing at the death. That is something to be very wary of next match.

Reality is Ireland have a massive machine behind the national team, a process and a pathway which is just bringing talent and ability through again and again. They also all have committed to a very difficult strategy to defend against, and the whole team are bought into it. It won't last forever, but Farrell has transformed them into a cohesive juggernaut of a rugby team, you have to be very very good to beat them and so far that's all that have beaten them.

I always wonder how much individual credit Farrell deserves? He inherited a team that was already very good from Schmidt and definitely benefits from a very strong Leinster side.

He has taken Ireland up a level, but I'd be reluctant to say he's 'transformed' them. I think it would be more accurate to say he has built on some of the excellent work that Schmidt had already done. That's not intended as a slight on Farrell - he's clearly done a great job. More recognition of the Schmidt era being foundational to Ireland's current success.

Might be harsh, but for the most part, I see Farrell as having added a harder edge and winners' mentality that Schmidt doesn't quite have (or at least doesn't exude).

 

[Smurfy]

I always wonder how much individual credit Farrell deserves? He inherited a team that was already very good from Schmidt and definitely benefits from a very strong Leinster side.

He has taken Ireland up a level, but I'd be reluctant to say he's 'transformed' them. I think it would be more accurate to say he has built on some of the excellent work that Schmidt had already done. That's not intended as a slight on Farrell - he's clearly done a great job. More recognition of the Schmidt era being foundational to Ireland's current success.

Might be harsh, but for the most part, I see Farrell as having added a harder edge and winners' mentality that Schmidt doesn't quite have (or at least doesn't exude).

I think you have a very good point, because there's no doubt that Schmidt changed Irelands attitude and standards to an incredible extent, and put in place structures at Leinster and Ireland that have been hugely influential in Irelands success. I think though his time had run as Ireland coach, with played fatigued by his intensity and tactical rigidity at the end.

Farrell has built on those standards and added his own personality and knowledge to the role. He appears to be far less prescriptive, and has brought more tactical flexibility, as well as trusting the players more to make more decisions on the field.

I think due credit must also be given to the IRFU who have also put the necessary structures in place for succession planning and excellent management of the coaching set up. The temptation must have been to bring in a big name coach after Schmidt, something the rugby public in Ireland were expecting, and Farrell's appointment was a bit of a damp squib. And it must be remembered Farrell's changes weren't an overnight success. And we now have Easterby doing an excellent job with no apparent drop in standards or results. So good job all round.