Wales v Fiji

[cyRil]

Where's Speedy when you need him?

 

[donmcdazzle]

You're right. The Celtic nations are a disgrace and you have single-handedly unveiled us for the frauds and charlatans we truly are.
Instead, we should adopt New Zealand's more subtle but direct approach of stifling their rugby development by just stealing all of their best players.

I can't resist biting on this. The current NZ squad has four non NZ born players; Muliaina, Toeava, Rokocoko and Kaino. Muliaina moved to NZ at age 2, Roks at age 5. Not sure on the other two, but they both attended secondary school in NZ. Compare this to the current Samoan squad. The following players were born and raised in NZ and had the benefit if NZ's coaching, facilities and competition: Khan Fotuali'i, Gavin and Paul Williams, Junior Poluleuligaga, Tasesa Lavea, Jamie Helleur, Seilala Mapusua, Josh Tatupu, Brando Va'aulu, Ti'i Paulo, Cencus Johnston, Sakaria Taulafo, Daniel Leo, Filipo Levi, Joe Tekori, Kane Thompson. In addition to this Sinoti Sinoti, Anthony Perenise, Simon Lemalu and Steve Falau all play in NZ but I couldn't find where they were born. Regardless that's 16 of their current squad that are essentially NZers.

How the hell do we then get tagged with poaching their best players?!

p.s. wikipedia also has a 'notable former players' thing for samoa. Of these 9 players, the following 6 were NZ born; Frank Bunce, Lome Fa'atau, Pat Lam, Trevor Leota, Apollo Perelini and Earl Va'a.

(I used Samoa as an example because they had the most players with readily available info).

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Where's Speedy when you need him?

Rumours he was shot down in a plane on a reconnaissance mission ....

 

[Prestwick]

I gotta say, when I walked into the pub in Clapham last night and saw the score I burst out laughing :lol:

About five others joined in :lol:

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Isn't it normal that players decide to represent countries other than where they were born? Brad Barritt was called up for the English squad, Hendre Fourie is in the current squad as well. There are tons of examples of players this way

 

[Muzzy]

I don't believe they will be "actively" trying to do so, but IMO they certainly do not go out of their way to assist.

Opportunities to help the islands have been put in front of the iRB before, such as the proposal to allow players born in a Tier 2 country, who have played for a Tier 1 country, to make a one-time permanent switch back to the country of their birth. This proposal has been fronted several times to the iRB, and has been "block voted" down by the Six Nations Unions, using their double voting rights.

Also, the proposal for an iRB funded Pacific Nations Championship was turned down several times since 1996, again by 6N block voting, before finally getting the go-ahead in 2006. It took TEN YEARS to get the "57 Old Farts" off their collect fat-arses and make them see something other than the bottom of their "pink gin" glasses.

Similarly, it seems they are unwilling to have the period of time the PNC is run, recognised as an official iRB window. This means they have no leverage when it comes to to getting their players back from Europe to participate.

Possibly, Charles is right when he says England and France wouldn't fall into that category, however, I cannot see that having strong Fijian, Samoan and Tongan sides would serve the interests of any of the Celtic Sides.

i see your point about the IRB not recognizing the PNC as an official irb window, which means club sides don't have to release island players if they don't want to, but i don't think its actually doing that much damage, if anything its helping the island teams build their depth. idk about the celtic nations but i know france and england have done a lot to help the island teams and also argentina by bringing island players into their teams and developing them, they've done a lot more to help the island teams than any of the tri nations teams have ever done and this is why i think the bridge between the european teams and the island teams is closing, this is also why i think Argentina became a force in rugby again, because france brought over so many of their players and developed them. you'll never see this in nz, nz are the worst when it comes to releasing island players. if you look at the island teams and at argentina you'll see most of their players are based in europe, without the european clubs the island teams wouldn't have these experience and developed players

 

[Prestwick]

Isn't it normal that players decide to represent countries other than where they were born? Brad Barritt was called up for the English squad, Hendre Fourie is in the current squad as well. There are tons of examples of players this way.

I think the difference with England is that these players just happen to come to English clubs who naturally don't really care who they are so long as they're legal and can play well for the club. These days if they become England qualified thats a financial bonus as well.

Barritt and Fourie didn't really come to England as part of a concerted RFU driven effort of the kind that normally brings people across from league.

 

[donmcdazzle]

Isn't it normal that players decide to represent countries other than where they were born? Brad Barritt was called up for the English squad, Hendre Fourie is in the current squad as well. There are tons of examples of players this way

OF course there are a lot of examples, I was just disproving Cyril's idiotic post saying NZ steal the pacific islands best players.

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

That might be true but isn't it weird that they allow this no matter what the reason is?

 

[Prestwick]

Not at all. I positively encourage it and in any case how pedantic could you get? Alex Cobisero for example should play for the USA because he was born in New York but moved to the UK as a kid.

The approach we have now is open to abuse occassionally but I think the boatloads of Samoans and Fijians legging it to Australia and New Zealand has been overblown a wee bit same with the 747 loads of South Africans rushing to England waving their English residency papers.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

OF course there are a lot of examples, I was just disproving Cymro's idiotic post saying NZ steal the pacific islands best players.

Oi get it right it was cyRil that said it, I want a dam apology straight away.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I'm sure Barritt has English family, as he qualified to play for England as soon as he arrived here, he didn't have to wait the three years (or however long it is) to qualify

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

To me a player can play for the country where he was born. The only reason to play for a different country is if 1 of his parents is born somewhere else. My son was born in South Africa but me as his father being Dutch, would give him the opportunity to play for Holland.

I think picking a different country to play for should be a country connected to you going only 1 generation back. Not more. But that's my view on things

 

[Prestwick]

Some would say you play where you were born no exceptions. That for me is too strict but I'm also okay with people who have fallen in love with their adopted country giving something back. Hendrie Fourie is a good example.

My son was born in South Afr....

Wait hang on hang on, you're like 16! How can you have a son already?!

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

What do you mean, I'm like 16?

If you decide to play for a country other than where you were born or where your heritage lies, what is the use of having national teams?

 

[donmcdazzle]

Oi get it right it was cyRil that said it, I want a dam apology straight away.

sorry mate my bad, post edited.

 

[Prestwick]

land stlady

I thought you were far younger than you are!

EDIT: I feel that national teams have not become irrelevent because they accept basically immigrants into their team.

Think of it this way. America is a country built on the ideal that you can come from anywhere in the world and pursue your dreams and that if you work hard America will reward you. Many of the USA Eagles may not have been born in America but they are considered as American as the next man. Thats why national teams won't suffer.

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Well, I am 26. My knowledge about rugby is not that massive since I have only watched my first match in 2007. I assume (and hope) that was the reason you assumed I was 16.

 

[dullonien]

Not this bloody residency thing again. Why is the country you were born in so important to most people? Surely, where you grow up has more influence on your identity? For instance, if someone is born in England, but moves to Wales at a young age, grows up to speak Welsh with Welsh friends, who should tell them that they are then English and not Welsh? Dispute the length of time it takes to gain residency by all means, but it's stupid to dispute it alltogether!

Back to the game. A also agree that the penalty try was unrightly given based on that particular scrum. However it should have been given on the previous scrummage. The ref probably bottled it initially, then decided he had to give it the next time. Overall, the ref handleing of the scrum was abismal, not sure what the totall scrummaging time ended up at, but about 3/4 of the way through the game it was standing at over 10mins. Wales obviously had the upper hand scrum time, the Fijians were constantly going down and wheeling the scrum. This is a general complaint though, it had no baring whatsoever on the final result. Gatland probably made too many changes, but even then the players he brought in are regional players, many of them with plenty of experience.

Mehlor Time made some good points on the last page, but I don't agree that Wales should have played their strongest team. We HAD to make some changes and see how some of the fringe players went. Injuries happen, and they certainly will during the world cup with SA, Samoa and Fiji in our group, so Gatland needed to run the rule over some players against a strong nation. As Gatland said in his post match interview, he found out alot about some players yesterday, and it sounded like it will cost some players their positions in future squads.

Gatland has already said that Matthew Rees will regain the captaincy next week against the All Blacks. Considering the performances of Deiniol and Gough, I'd have Ryan Jones on the bench to cover second row, with a starting backrow of Lydiate-Williams-Powell.

 

[Prestwick]

Well, I am 26. My knowledge about rugby is not that massive since I have only watched my first match in 2007. I assume (and hope) that was the reason you assumed I was 16.

Oh okay! No sorry I genuinely thought you said months ago you were 16 or 18 or something. No harm done.